The Meisterstück 149 Calligraphy Appreciation Thread

[como]

17 hours ago, fpupulin said:

This topic turns one year old today....

@fpupulinHappy Anniversary to this wonderful thread and its author! Thank you so much!

[DrDebG]

Congratulations on the anniversary of such a wonderful post.  

 

On the eve before intending to purchase one of these wonderful pens (yes, I had located one), my husband surprised me with a lovely MB 146 with a specially tuned OM nib.  It is such a lovely pen and writes exquisitely.  

 

With such a generous and loving gift, I could hardly diminish its meaning by ordering the MB Calligraphy.  

 

And after careful thought (and como's wonderful video post), I realized that at this point in my calligraphy practice, I could not do justice to the MB Calligraphy.  So, I released the pen which was quickly purchased by someone much more worthy of the unique characteristics of the pen.  

 

Will I regret such a decision?  Perhaps.  But in the meantime, I will cherish this wonderful gift from the thoughtful, loving husband I have been blessed to be married to for over 45 years.  

[fpupulin]

8 hours ago, DrDebG said:

Congratulations on the anniversary of such a wonderful post.  

 

On the eve before intending to purchase one of these wonderful pens (yes, I had located one), my husband surprised me with a lovely MB 146 with a specially tuned OM nib.  It is such a lovely pen and writes exquisitely.  

 

With such a generous and loving gift, I could hardly diminish its meaning by ordering the MB Calligraphy.  

 

And after careful thought (and como's wonderful video post), I realized that at this point in my calligraphy practice, I could not do justice to the MB Calligraphy.  So, I released the pen which was quickly purchased by someone much more worthy of the unique characteristics of the pen.  

 

Will I regret such a decision?  Perhaps.  But in the meantime, I will cherish this wonderful gift from the thoughtful, loving husband I have been blessed to be married to for over 45 years.  

 

You will never regret a decision taken for love. Love is infinitely more important, infinitely more influential on happiness, than any pen on this world. You have a great and attentive husband, who surely deserves your acknowledgments and is worth not one, but one million Calligraphy pens.

Enjoy your new, great pen, and the delicate love she encloses !

[como]

On 6/8/2021 at 3:06 PM, fpupulin said:

 

You will never regret a decision taken for love. Love is infinitely more important, infinitely more influential on happiness, than any pen on this world. You have a great and attentive husband, who surely deserves your acknowledgments and is worth not one, but one million Calligraphy pens.

Enjoy your new, great pen, and the delicate love she encloses !

@fpupulinAbsolutely, I couldn’t have said it better myself!

@DrDebGCongratulations! With such a thoughtful and loving gift, you don’t want to or dare to think up the idea of going out to get a Calligraphy! Well, not right away for sure 😉 As someone whose daily writer is a stubby broad, I would say that MB 149 Calligraphy is more a calligraphy pen that can also handle normal writing, and less a daily writer that can also do calligraphy. Just my experience. Those who love EF as daily writer might think very differently. Though your MB 146 with OM is an exquisite sentimental gift, as a pen aficionado, I am willing to bet that it won’t be your last pen ever 😀. So one day you can still consider the Calligraphy if you want to. I totally recommend it for anyone who looks for a modern flex pen suited for calligraphy. It seems that MB is still producing them and surely there will be some on secondary market as well, when some users decide that this is not their thing in the end.

 

Finally, if you don’t mind me asking, does your OM write like a slanted stub, or is it simply adjusted for people who have a tendency to rotate or tilt their nib to the left? I have a 146 with OM nib which produces no line variations, and had a very narrow sweet spot even for people tilting their hand to the left. I made the adjustment so it writes much more smoothly but still accommodating the tilt. I am just curious what is MB’s normal nib setup for an OM. Thank you!

[gyasko]

I’m not DrDebG, but here goes:

 

Unlike the 149 Calligraphy, the modern 146 OM is a complete snooze as far as line variation goes.  The OB & OBB are better in terms of line variation, but also somewhat fussier about attack angle.  Someone accustomed to vintage MB obliques will be disappointed in modern MB OB & OBBs, both in terms of usability & line variation.

 

 

[fpupulin]

This is, in particular, for my friend como...

 

 

[como]

1 hour ago, fpupulin said:

This is, in particular, for my friend como...

 

 

@fpupulinHahahaha, thank you very much! Yes, it's a wonderful disaster!

[como]

On 6/9/2021 at 10:30 PM, gyasko said:

I’m not DrDebG, but here goes:

 

Unlike the 149 Calligraphy, the modern 146 OM is a complete snooze as far as line variation goes.  The OB & OBB are better in terms of line variation, but also somewhat fussier about attack angle.  Someone accustomed to vintage MB obliques will be disappointed in modern MB OB & OBBs, both in terms of usability & line variation.

 

 

Thank you! I was able to try the M and OM of MB 146 at a boutique today from a tester set. Indeed the OM is just adjusted for the hand tilt/rotating, no variation, though very smooth and pleasant to write with. With MB nibs, you never know until you try them. My Le Petit Prince 146 Planet is a slightly stubby broad. I tried other B on 146, not stubby, no line variations. Another B on a 149 was stubby. All a bit different... 

[a student]

2 hours ago, como said:

Thank you! I was able to try the M and OM of MB 146 at a boutique today from a tester set. Indeed the OM is just adjusted for the hand tilt/rotating, no variation, though very smooth and pleasant to write with. With MB nibs, you never know until you try them. My Le Petit Prince 146 Planet is a slightly stubby broad. I tried other B on 146, not stubby, no line variations. Another B on a 149 was stubby. All a bit different... 

Thank you for the information. Did you also try out the OB nib; and if so, was there any line variation?

[gyasko]

3 hours ago, newstudent said:

Thank you for the information. Did you also try out the OB nib; and if so, was there any line variation?

 

There is some line variation in the modern OB, but my vintage 146G OB has a lot more.  

[a student]

5 hours ago, gyasko said:

 

There is some line variation in the modern OB, but my vintage 146G OB has a lot more.  

Thanks for clarifying the point!

[como]

9 hours ago, gyasko said:

 

There is some line variation in the modern OB, but my vintage 146G OB has a lot more.  

Sorry to go off the topic here. Please feel free to delete. The vintage MB (and other brands of the same period) often have bouncy and stubbish nibs, whether a B or M. They are really wonderful pens. I bought the Calligraphy partially because I don’t have the heart to ink my beautiful vintage celluloid pens with permanent inks (newly discovered MB Permanent Blue and Permanent Black) and subject to excessive cleaning. As Calligraphy is a new pen and MB will service it if something goes kaputt, I can use it a lot and not have to worry.

[fpupulin]

It never ends to surprise me how much versatile is the Calligraphy nib and how much black is Black permanent ink...

 

[como]

@fpupulinThank you for the beautiful calligraphy. It definitely shows that your nib has the ability to go from EF to B/BB and back very easily. This is what I really like about this pen, EF with no pressure and good control and snapback after flexing. I feel comfortable flexing this pen to just over 1mm (I know some people can and will do much more, but I don't let them use MY pen :-)))). It can achieve more but I don't really like to over-flex flex nibs, for fear that overdoing it eventually will take its tolls. Once a pen restorer told me that some videos of wet noodles are just for show, because if you flex a wet noodle (or any pen) that much all the time, it will kill the nib sooner than later. It would be a pity. So I decided that if one day I feel the need to flex the hell out of a pen for learning or for fun, I would do it with a dip pen with steel nib. Many are actually remarkably flexible. I am enjoying my Calligraphy, a great combination of style, robustness and very nice modern flex. 

 

Franco, may I ask at your calligraphy level, how hard and how often do you flex your nibs? It may serve as a good reference for these of us who are just learning. Thank you!

[fpupulin]

18 hours ago, como said:

Franco, may I ask at your calligraphy level, how hard and how often do you flex your nibs? It may serve as a good reference for these of us who are just learning. Thank you!

 

It is an interesting question, como, and I confess that I neither heard before nor thought about the possibility that the nib could be damaged by using it according to its specifications.

Indeed, Montblanc was honest in its presentation of the Calligraphy nib, stating the rank of possible strokes, and specifying that beyond that limit of flex the feeder would come into contact with paper.

 

In fact, when the tines come to diverge by 1.6-1.7, or in my experience even by 1.8 mm, I don't have the feeling that the nib has reached the limits of its elasticity, because it is still perfectly responsive. It is precisely the fact that the position of the feeder impedes a further divarication of the tines what does not allow for a stronger, and maybe dangerous, pressure: it is a kind of "safety limit".

 

I have no idea, honestly, if the prolonged use of the declared flexibility of the nib could be prejudicial to it in the long term. However, I believe that I would be content to be able to use my Calligraphy in complete freedom for about ten years, before sending it out - if necessary - for service ...

 

I know of a few, lucky owners, wise enough for securing a second sample of this most extraordinary pen, who can count with a perfect replacement to enjoy their Calligraphy with no worries...

 

 

[invisuu]

From engineering perspective, there is a margin of plastic strain allowed up to which the material can be deformed and the viscoplastic work is stabilized, and thus no longer accumulating.
 

Under this loadcase scenario, the material can be deformed and undeformed infinite cycles. This is what we call infinite lifetime design and is achieved once a structure can survive 10^6 to 10^7 of cycles, depending on the cycling frequency. This doesn't mean it's actually infinite, as nothing in this universe is, due to entropy, but in practical terms it might mean decades or even centuries of constant use.

 

I, too, have noticed that the nib is limited in it's flexibility not by way of geometrical shape or material, but by the feed. This gives me the impression that Montblanc knows all of this and designed the nib around it. 
 

It may sound complicated, but fracture mechanics have been around for good 30-40 years now and we have this figured out. Fun fact: Titanic would not have sunk if they understood fracture mechanics back then as we do today.

 

My experience is with steel and aluminium, but I bet Montblanc has goldsmiths who understand all of this perfectly well also for gold.

[N1003U]

On 6/13/2021 at 4:38 PM, fpupulin said:

It never ends to surprise me how much versatile is the Calligraphy nib and how much black is Black permanent ink...

 

 

Thank you, fpupulin, for the lovely examples you have posted. You are dangerously close to enabling me right into one of those Calligraphy nibs.

 

 

1 hour ago, invisuu said:

From engineering perspective, there is a margin of plastic strain allowed up to which the material can be deformed and the viscoplastic work is stabilized, and thus no longer accumulating.
 

Under this loadcase scenario, the material can be deformed and undeformed infinite cycles. This is what we call infinite lifetime design and is achieved once a structure can survive 10^6 to 10^7 of cycles, depending on the cycling frequency. This doesn't mean it's actually infinite, as nothing in this universe is, due to entropy, but in practical terms it might mean decades or even centuries of constant use.

 

I, too, have noticed that the nib is limited in it's flexibility not by way of geometrical shape or material, but by the feed. This gives me the impression that Montblanc knows all of this and designed the nib around it. 
 

It may sound complicated, but fracture mechanics have been around for good 30-40 years now and we have this figured out. Fun fact: Titanic would not have sunk if they understood fracture mechanics back then as we do today.

 

My experience is with steel and aluminium, but I bet Montblanc has goldsmiths who understand all of this perfectly well also for gold.

 

The (few) goldsmiths I know personally do instinctively understand plasticity, as taking advantage of gold's lovely plastic properties is basic to a lot of gold forming, however, I would (edit:) NOT go as far as to say most of them understand nonlinear behavior in a rigorous academic sense. Unfortunately, neither do a lot of engineers who really should (some of whom have actual responsible positions at places like major airframe and engine manufacturers). I bring this up because I had the honor or studying under this guy, who was not only truly an expert in the field of fracture mechanics (and we would often lament that not enough people were), but he was also rarely seen in his office without one of his trusty MB 149s in his hand. 🙂 

 

I am also not sure whether or not a hypothesis contrary to actual facts constitutes a "fun fact", as there is really no way to verify the hypothesis. For example, how well riveted seams were understood by the engineers at Harland and Wolff; assuming their understating of fracture mechanics was sufficient, how well they understood what the loads were from such an impact between a ship and an iceberg, and what they could have done alternatively in terms of construction, given the joining technology available at the time (hint: marine welding technology really needed a few more years of intense research brought on by WW I to really mature to where it was used for similar hull construction). But it is a fun mental game to play.

[Frank C]

17 minutes ago, N1003U said:

 

Thank you, fpupulin, for the lovely examples you have posted. You are dangerously close to enabling me right into one of those Calligraphy nibs.

 

Thanks for your thought-provoking post. I enjoyed reading the obituary for John L. Bogdanoff, Ph.D. I also looked up Stochastic Process, an interesting field of study. One never knows what one will learn through FPN. 

 

As for buying a Montblanc Calligraphy 149, I say go for it. They are fun to use and perfectly serviceable as an extra-fine nib even if you never flex it—albeit, an expensive one. They may or may not be limited; no one seems to know. My local MB boutique's manager told me that he is no longer able to order them. Please note, I have discovered that mine does not automatically write like Franco's. I think that he may have gotten an experimental model. 

[invisuu]

51 minutes ago, N1003U said:

 

Thank you, fpupulin, for the lovely examples you have posted. You are dangerously close to enabling me right into one of those Calligraphy nibs.

 

 

 

The (few) goldsmiths I know personally do instinctively understand plasticity, as taking advantage of gold's lovely plastic properties is basic to a lot of gold forming, however, I would go as far as to say most of them understand nonlinear behavior in a rigorous academic sense. Unfortunately, neither do a lot of engineers who really should (some of whom have actual responsible positions at places like major airframe and engine manufacturers). I bring this up because I had the honor or studying under this guy, who was not only truly an expert in the field of fracture mechanics (and we would often lament that not enough people were), but he was also rarely seen in his office without one of his trusty MB 149s in his hand. 🙂 

 

I am also not sure whether or not a hypothesis contrary to actual facts constitutes a "fun fact", as there is really no way to verify the hypothesis. For example, how well riveted seams were understood by the engineers at Harland and Wolff; assuming their understating of fracture mechanics was sufficient, how well they understood what the loads were from such an impact between the ship and and iceberg, and what they could have done alternatively in terms of construction, given the joining technology available at the time (hint: marine welding technology really needed a few more years of intense research brought on by WW I to really mature to where it was used for similar hull construction). But it is a fun mental game to play.

In fracture mechanics, it is widely accepted that Titanic sunk due to lack of material understanding; the hull was not ductile enough and was inappropriately chosen for the temperatures it operated in. Best marine steel today is highly ductile even in low temperatures. This can easily be observed by assessing crack propagation; Titanic's fracture was "jagged". You can mentally visualize this yourself by thinking of hitting rubber with hammer versus porcelain, for example. So I stated it as a fact purely because that is the most prevalent accepted theory behind the reason why it sunk in fracture mechanics. We are certain this would not happen today. 
 

You can also observe this with cars. You may think we make the bumpers out of "plastic" because we're being cheap, but I assure you those bumpers saved more lives than cars of yesterday ever would.

 

Fracture mechanics is very appreciated in the automotive industry for now still, so I personally can't complaint  

 

This is off topic now, so pardon me. If you'd like to go into more detail, I'd be happy to continue from here via PMs. I enjoy my calligraphy nib very much, so I vote "go for it!".

[fpupulin]

2 hours ago, invisuu said:

[...]

 

I, too, have noticed that the nib is limited in it's flexibility not by way of geometrical shape or material, but by the feed. This gives me the impression that Montblanc knows all of this and designed the nib around it. 
 

[...]

 

My experience is with steel and aluminium, but I bet Montblanc has goldsmiths who understand all of this perfectly well also for gold.

 

It is also my understanding. This is a well-engineered nib.

 

Your discussion about fracture-mechanics is very instructive, and I enjoyed a lot reading the posts on this topic. This forum is really a great source of interesting information.