The Meisterstück 149 Calligraphy Appreciation Thread

[gyasko]

54 minutes ago, invisuu said:

 

I find the snapback adequate, I think the ink flows perhaps a little too much. I bought a bunch of inks (20+) just to find *THE* perfect ink for this specific nib and I have it currently inked with Aurora Black, which flows perfectly - as if it was specifically made for this nib and feed. I can control the pen perfectly with this ink, even in a single 0.6 mm line, and I have not had a single skip or railroad throughout the full first fill. It was the last ink I've tested and it's by far the best one. 

 

I know I'm weird, no need to say it out loud, but I like to find the perfect ink for every nib I have. It took me 4 months to find one for this pen, but today, I believe I have achieved it! 

 

 

Sure, the snapback is adequate.  I don’t think there would be as many fans of the calligraphy 149 if the snapback were insufficient.  All the same, it doesn’t give as sharp a contrast after a flex as vintage 14k flex nibs.  This is something Franco noted right in the beginning of this thread.  But that’s OK.  It flexes and it’s pleasant to use.

 

I rarely use black ink, but if Aurora black is truly the best for the Calligraphy nib, i’ll have to give it a try.

 

 

[invisuu]

I haven't tried a vintage flex nib yet, so I'll take your word for it. I'm not very experienced with flex nibs, I've only used them for 3 years now and they were all modern flex.

 

I feel like each pen is unique and tiny differences in nib grinds and feed executions can have a significant impact. Aurora Black is really perfect for my pen specifically, but I can't guarantee you'll be as satisfied with it in your pen.

[fpupulin]

As I commented before, the snapback of the Calligraphy nib is not on par with that of the best vintage nibs. It is compensated by the greater smoothness of this nib for everyday writing. And I somewhat learned how to interrupt the pressure before reaching the beginning of the curve.

 

[Frank C]

6 hours ago, invisuu said:

 

I find the snapback adequate, I think the ink flows perhaps a little too much. I bought a bunch of inks (20+) just to find *THE* perfect ink for this specific nib and I have it currently inked with Aurora Black, which flows perfectly - as if it was specifically made for this nib and feed. I can control the pen perfectly with this ink, even in a single 0.6 mm line, and I have not had a single skip or railroad throughout the full first fill. It was the last ink I've tested and it's by far the best one. 

 

I am wondering which other inks you tried. Would you be so kind as to supply us with a list and perhaps a few comments on each one? I know this is a lot of work, but it might save all of us some trial and error. Thank you in advance.

[invisuu]

I initially started with Montblanc Irish Green. It's a great ink, but I had issue of the pen simply running out of ink every so often (think: 1-3 times per full fill), which was an indicator to me, that the ink just barely doesn't flow fast enough for my personal speed of writing. This is all flex writing by the way, normal writing the pen had no issues, but still. I thought nothing of it, because that's perfectly acceptable. But then I tried it with Iroshizuku Kon Peki and the pen never ran out - it was perfect! The problem is, I don't like the sheening edges of Kon Peki. 

 

I got Montblanc Amethyst Purple and Toffee Brown. What's remarkable about these inks is how identical they behave to each other and to the Irish Green. So, beautiful inks, but not quite what I was looking for in terms of performance. I then bought Montblanc Mystery Black and Midnight Blue; both dry inks, the latter terribly so, the pen actually had issues writing with these two. I further tested the pen with Iroshizuku Shin-Kai and Tsuki-Yo, which were similiarly dry; not too dry mind you, but just enough to make the pen not behave perfectly. Again, this is all flex writing, these inks are all wonderful otherwise. Furthermore, Iroshizuku Kiri Same and Yama Budo behaved similiarly, with Yama Budo being a better performer, but not a suitable color for regular everyday writing. It was Iroshizuku Take Sumi that made the pen fly again, but it wrote just a tad overly wet, making the line too wide and uncontrollable on single line flex writing.

 

I then bought also Montblanc Permanent Black, KWZ blue-black, Aurora Black, and J. Herbin Perle Noire. The latter performed similar to Montblanc's inks, the Permanent Black had the same issue as Take Sumi (too wet and uncontrollable for single line width writing), and the Aurora Black behaves perfectly, as if match made in heaven. I haven't even gotten to trying out KWZ blue-black, but during these trials I have noticed a pattern; blue-blacks seem to be on the dry side for whatever reason. I've never noticed this before, is this is a known fact or was it just my small sample size influencing my pattern recognition?

I also tried out a few other inks from my stash with unremarkable results or they were not suitable for everyday writing due to color (think: orange, yellow, etc.).

 

Again, this is all flex writing and I like to use very smooth, waxy paper such as Rhodia 90 gsm premium ivory paper. This is pretty much the worst case scenario for any pen, which I appreciate, but I am also quite heavily invested in this hobby and with such investment, I also expect stellar performance to be achievable. It is much easier to achieve flawless performance when writing regularly (non-flex) and on less smooth paper.

[como]

On 5/17/2021 at 2:13 AM, fpupulin said:

 

Dear pen pal: as to the guide, I use the Ames Lettering Guide, a very inexpensive tool that you can buy for a few dollars in Ebay under several different names (but you can begin searching for “Ames Lettering Guide”). I use it a lot for its simplicity and also because it does not occupy any space on my desk.

 

The question about a good text for calligraphy requires a bit more elaborate answer. To begin with, I would suggest you two things.

 

First, fall in love with calligraphy with a book that I consider the best work ever done on this topic; Calligraphie, by Claude Mediavilla. The original work was written in French, but I know that an English translation also exist. As I know that you will have not any problem with the French language, being Swiss, I warmly suggest you buying the beautiful, hard bound, in quarto volume, that will stay open flat on the table…

Mediavilla’s work is, in my opinion, the best possible choice to approach the theme of calligraphy, and not only in its technical motifs (it includes chapters on tools and materials, and 22 model alphabets with their respective ductus), but also on the historical and cultural aspects of writing and scripts, as well as the historic hands (Roman caps, rustic, Roman cursive, uncial, Carolingian, gothic scripts, and Renaissance writing styles). The most remarkable (and rewarding) aspect of this splendid book are the gorgeous, large size reproductions (almost 500 illustrations) of antique manuscripts and the masterworks of contemporary calligraphers (including abstract paintings), that really convey you the true spirit of the history of writing.

I received the book as a gist from my wife, and I really treasure it for its beauty. The scripts, as Mediavilla executes them, are in my opinion among the best (if not the best) among the different interpretations I know, but the book is worth its price also for those who are not searching for a “manual’ of calligraphy, but a cultural work on its extraordinary history.

 

The second of my suggestions is to learn just a few scripts (not more than three or four) and to try master them somewhat before moving on. This will give you much more satisfaction - allowing you to experiment Calligraphy in practice doing some small work - than trying the tens or hundreds possible hands that you may find in specialized literature. Once you have chosen the styles of scripts you like the most to learn, you will be able to find many specific texts on those styles, and collecting books on these themes is another great fun ...

Just to begin with, I would suggest you two “manuals” that I find quite interesting. The first, Calligraphy - A Comprehensive Guide to Beautiful Lettering,  by Jane Sullivan, presents just a dozen scripts, but very well-executed, with plenty of instructions to master them, and with good examples of their use: a simple and very effective book. The second, Calligraphy - Contemporary Techniques and Tools, by Gaye Godfrey-Nicholls, teaches much more hands, but also present a lot of works of contemporary masters, so being not only instructive, but also very inspirational.

 

I hope you will find this useful to definitively fall in love with the beautiful art of calligraphy.

Dear Franco, thank you so much for your detailed and passionate suggestions and advice. I much appreciate it. I have started the search and ordering of the books you mentioned. I ordered all three from different sources. They will take some time to arrive, several weeks at least, I think. I also ordered the Ames Lettering Guide from a local stationery shop, and hope that they will call me soon.

 

This is very exciting! I remember that I was this excited when I first started learning how to service and restore pens too. I still love and enjoy to this day.

 

Franco, you are truly an inspiration for us here. You show us in many different ways the depth and breath a fountain pen passion can have. It’s not about wanting a nice pen and buying it and wanting another, though I must admit that in earlier days I was guilty of this too and occasionally still do it! 
 

My sincere gratitude!

[Frank C]

8 hours ago, invisuu said:

I initially started with Montblanc Irish Green. It's a great ink, but I had issue of the pen simply running out of ink every so often (think: 1-3 times per full fill), which was an indicator to me, that the ink just barely doesn't flow fast enough for my personal speed of writing. This is all flex writing by the way, normal writing the pen had no issues, but still. I thought nothing of it, because that's perfectly acceptable. But then I tried it with Iroshizuku Kon Peki and the pen never ran out - it was perfect! The problem is, I don't like the sheening edges of Kon Peki. 

 

I got Montblanc Amethyst Purple and Toffee Brown. What's remarkable about these inks is how identical they behave to each other and to the Irish Green. So, beautiful inks, but not quite what I was looking for in terms of performance. I then bought Montblanc Mystery Black and Midnight Blue; both dry inks, the latter terribly so, the pen actually had issues writing with these two. I further tested the pen with Iroshizuku Shin-Kai and Tsuki-Yo, which were similiarly dry; not too dry mind you, but just enough to make the pen not behave perfectly. Again, this is all flex writing, these inks are all wonderful otherwise. Furthermore, Iroshizuku Kiri Same and Yama Budo behaved similiarly, with Yama Budo being a better performer, but not a suitable color for regular everyday writing. It was Iroshizuku Take Sumi that made the pen fly again, but it wrote just a tad overly wet, making the line too wide and uncontrollable on single line flex writing.

 

I then bought also Montblanc Permanent Black, KWZ blue-black, Aurora Black, and J. Herbin Perle Noire. The latter performed similar to Montblanc's inks, the Permanent Black had the same issue as Take Sumi (too wet and uncontrollable for single line width writing), and the Aurora Black behaves perfectly, as if match made in heaven. I haven't even gotten to trying out KWZ blue-black, but during these trials I have noticed a pattern; blue-blacks seem to be on the dry side for whatever reason. I've never noticed this before, is this is a known fact or was it just my small sample size influencing my pattern recognition?

I also tried out a few other inks from my stash with unremarkable results or they were not suitable for everyday writing due to color (think: orange, yellow, etc.).

 

Again, this is all flex writing and I like to use very smooth, waxy paper such as Rhodia 90 gsm premium ivory paper. This is pretty much the worst case scenario for any pen, which I appreciate, but I am also quite heavily invested in this hobby and with such investment, I also expect stellar performance to be achievable. It is much easier to achieve flawless performance when writing regularly (non-flex) and on less smooth paper.

Thank you for posting this information. I appreciate all the work that went into this, including hundreds of pen flushings. 

[Frank C]

I heard from Montblanc USA. I asked about using permanent ink in the 149 calligraphy.

Dear Mr. C, Thank you very much for your email and your interest in Montblanc.    Congratulations on acquiring a 149 Calligraphy pen. These are a joy to write with!   The viscosity of our permanent inks is just a little different than our standard inks. Because it is a bit thicker, it does not perform as well with the delicateness of the flexible nib.    Any other Montblanc ink will be perfect for your fountain pen.    Should you have any questions or require additional information, please do not hesitate to call our Concierge Service on 1-800-995-4810, and a Montblanc Ambassador will be happy to assist you. Our representatives are available from 9:00 AM to 8:00 PM EST Monday to Friday.   Kind regards, Ally Montblanc Customer Service

[invisuu]

Thanks for posting that. I would bet everything I have that Permanent Black runs much more than for example Mystery Black. So my experience does not correlate to that at all, tested with 2 pens. Permanent black runs wildly, depending on one's needs potentially overly so, whereas mystery black is quite dry. The only ink drier than it, that I own, is midnight blue.

[fpupulin]

Mhhhhh ... I'm starting to believe that the inks we are using, even if they bear the same name, are actually quite different from each other, and that this is perhaps due to the different batches available in the stores.

But, before I get into my report on the Black Permanent, I would like to take a step back.

 

How do calligraphic inks (iron-gall, pigmented, etc.) differ from those suitable for fountain pens? Essentially, in their viscosity, which is greater. A viscous ink is necessary not only to stay on the nib without escaping out in a single stroke, but also (and perhaps above all) to be able to execute the very thin lines that calligraphic nibs are capable of. An ink that is too “meager" lacks the surface tension necessary to perform this type of lines.

Now, what does the Montblanc manager quoted by Frank C say? He essentially says that Black Permanent, being a pigmented ink, has a higher density (is "thicker") than the other inks of the Hamburg house. This is what one would expect from an ink with suspended pigment particles. The Montblanc manager also adds that - due to its increased density - the Black Permanent is not suitable for the Calligraphy nib, but this is undoubtedly his personal opinion, since most of the inks specifically designed for calligraphy and the calligraphy nibs, are more viscous (which is why they should not be used in a fountain pen, as they are difficult to clean). The possible impediment to the use of a pigmented ink is - for safety reasons - with respect to the fountain pen, not to the flexible nib.

And now, my personal report. My two bottles of Black Permanent provide a thicker ink than the other black inks I have. Presented in ascending order of fluidity, from the most viscous to the most fluid, here are my blacks:

1. Montblanc Black Permanent.
2. Graf von Faber Castell Carbon Black.
3. Edelstein Onyx.
4. Pelikan 4001 Black
5. OMAS Black.
6. Montblanc Mystery Black.
7. Parker Quink
8. Herbin Perle Noire.
9. Montegrappa Black.
10. Aurora Black.

Since the Black Permanent of my bottles is viscous, it allows me to take advantage of the subtlety of the Calligraphy nib in the finest lines, although it sometimes (I must say rarely) it railroads under pressure. One of the reasons I like this ink (aside from the perfect blackness of its black) is that it does not bleed through any type of paper, a behavior which is again due to its viscosity. Its most negative aspect is the drying time, which can be several hours and, on some papers, several weeks ... For this reason I am frequently using the Blue Permanent, which behaves in the same way in general terms, but dries out quickly.

Apart from the drying issue, Black Permanent behaves, in my opinion, for what it was designed for: a deep black, more viscous than normal, indelible ink.

Due to my habit of writing on both sides of the sheets in my notebooks, the fact that an ink bleeds little or nothing (Black Permanent, as well as Blue Permanent, are close to nothing) is an essential requirement for me. For this reason, although I really appreciate their deep color, I rarely use Perle Noire and Aurora, which bleed a lot, and never with my Calligraphy.

However, the reports provided by others convince me that the best results are obtained not only with the right combination of ink and paper, but also with the right "batch" of ink. Of course, this is a much more difficult variable to keep under control.

 

Here I add another leaf with a direct comparison between the performance of the Calligraphy nib (inked with Blue Permanent) and that of a vintage OMAS with an OMAS Extra nib (with Edelstein Onyx), but this time on calligraphy paper. I don't think it's just my impression that the nib of the 149 supports this comparison head-on. The fact that she is a contemporary, serviceable pen, unlike the OMAS, makes it a particularly good option for me.

 

 

 

[invisuu]

Thanks for the write up. It got me thinking, however, that perhaps it is my perception that is wrong; perhaps the more viscous Permanent Black holds the surface tension better when the tines are spread apart, thus doesn't break as easily and keeps a steady flow?

 

I'm not so sure about batches variation, there is some variation for sure, but I doubt to such a large extent.

 

Either way I completely agree with you that Permanent Black is a much better choice for the calligraphy nib, than Mystery black - just from my personal experience. It's a great ink and is truly, truly black, which I certainly can't say for Mystery black, which is just a very, very dark blue. Chromatography confirms this also.

[MoriartyR]

2 hours ago, fpupulin said:

Mhhhhh ... I'm starting to believe that the inks we are using, even if they bear the same name, are actually quite different from each other, and that this is perhaps due to the different batches available in the stores.

But, before I get into my report on the Black Permanent, I would like to take a step back.

 

How do calligraphic inks (iron-gall, pigmented, etc.) differ from those suitable for fountain pens? Essentially, in their viscosity, which is greater. A viscous ink is necessary not only to stay on the nib without escaping out in a single stroke, but also (and perhaps above all) to be able to execute the very thin lines that calligraphic nibs are capable of. An ink that is too “meager" lacks the surface tension necessary to perform this type of lines.

Now, what does the Montblanc manager quoted by Frank C say? He essentially says that Black Permanent, being a pigmented ink, has a higher density (is "thicker") than the other inks of the Hamburg house. This is what one would expect from an ink with suspended pigment particles. The Montblanc manager also adds that - due to its increased density - the Black Permanent is not suitable for the Calligraphy nib, but this is undoubtedly his personal opinion, since most of the inks specifically designed for calligraphy and the calligraphy nibs, are more viscous (which is why they should not be used in a fountain pen, as they are difficult to clean). The possible impediment to the use of a pigmented ink is - for safety reasons - with respect to the fountain pen, not to the flexible nib.

And now, my personal report. My two bottles of Black Permanent provide a thicker ink than the other black inks I have. Presented in ascending order of fluidity, from the most viscous to the most fluid, here are my blacks:

1. Montblanc Black Permanent.
2. Graf von Faber Castell Carbon Black.
3. Edelstein Onyx.
4. Pelikan 4001 Black
5. OMAS Black.
6. Montblanc Mystery Black.
7. Parker Quink
8. Herbin Perle Noire.
9. Montegrappa Black.
10. Aurora Black.

Since the Black Permanent of my bottles is viscous, it allows me to take advantage of the subtlety of the Calligraphy nib in the finest lines, although it sometimes (I must say rarely) it railroads under pressure. One of the reasons I like this ink (aside from the perfect blackness of its black) is that it does not bleed through any type of paper, a behavior which is again due to its viscosity. Its most negative aspect is the drying time, which can be several hours and, on some papers, several weeks ... For this reason I am frequently using the Blue Permanent, which behaves in the same way in general terms, but dries out quickly.

Apart from the drying issue, Black Permanent behaves, in my opinion, for what it was designed for: a deep black, more viscous than normal, indelible ink.

Due to my habit of writing on both sides of the sheets in my notebooks, the fact that an ink bleeds little or nothing (Black Permanent, as well as Blue Permanent, are close to nothing) is an essential requirement for me. For this reason, although I really appreciate their deep color, I rarely use Perle Noire and Aurora, which bleed a lot, and never with my Calligraphy.

However, the reports provided by others convince me that the best results are obtained not only with the right combination of ink and paper, but also with the right "batch" of ink. Of course, this is a much more difficult variable to keep under control.

 

Here I add another leaf with a direct comparison between the performance of the Calligraphy nib (inked with Blue Permanent) and that of a vintage OMAS with an OMAS Extra nib (with Edelstein Onyx), but this time on calligraphy paper. I don't think it's just my impression that the nib of the 149 supports this comparison head-on. The fact that she is a contemporary, serviceable pen, unlike the OMAS, makes it a particularly good option for me.

 

 

 

This is an interesting post, Franco, and it makes me think I should try GvFC Carbon Black in the Calligraphy Flex - it is an ink I like and I don’t have the MB permanent inks.

 

So far I haven’t experimented with different inks in my pen. I have only used Quink Blue because I am a simple man with simple needs and I don’t ask for much out of life. And I like the way it looks with wider lines when it dries. I haven’t had any railroading but it can stop flowing if I over-flex slightly, so I’m sure there are more suitable ink choices.

I assume your thinking is sound regarding the suitability of viscous inks for the flex nib. I bought a few of the Scribo inks and they seem notably viscous to me and since Scribo is selling mostly flex nibs the inks must surely be designed for such use. I will try one of these inks in the Montblanc too.

 

[agentdaffy007]

I tried quite a few inks with the MB 149 Calligraphy.

 

- Pelikan 4001 Black is way too dry.

- MB Midnight Blue IG is too dry as well and it clogs my nib. Weird

- J. Herbin Perle Noir is too wet.

- MB Permanent Blue is a great ink

- Sailor Sei Boku is just perfect! My favorite

 

I gave a bottle of Aurora Black and MB 146 to my sister. Doubt that she ever use the pen nor the ink. Gonna try to refill my pen with her bottle and see how it goes.

 

I'll try the MB Racing Green and MB Mahatma Gandhi and report back eventually.

[Frank C]

10 hours ago, agentdaffy007 said:

I tried quite a few inks with the MB 149 Calligraphy.

 

- Pelikan 4001 Black is way too dry.

- MB Midnight Blue IG is too dry as well and it clogs my nib. Weird

- J. Herbin Perle Noir is too wet.

- MB Permanent Blue is a great ink

- Sailor Sei Boku is just perfect! My favorite

 

I gave a bottle of Aurora Black and MB 146 to my sister. Doubt that she ever use the pen nor the ink. Gonna try to refill my pen with her bottle and see how it goes.

 

I'll try the MB Racing Green and MB Mahatma Gandhi and report back eventually.

Thanks for posting this. Your sister is a fortunate person. My sister is too high-strung to use a fountain pen. I do have a bottle of Sei Boku around here somewhere. I'm still trying to decide on my next ink. 

 

Your MB Midnight Blue Iron Gall may have oxidized. When it's fresh, the iron compounds (ferrous tannate) in iron gall ink are all in suspension. Once exposed to oxygen, they start to oxidize (ferric tannate) and precipitate. They also polymerize with some other molecules to form insoluble compounds. On paper or parchment that creates a permanent mark; in the bottle, it creates sludge. 

 

Montblanc hasn't made an IG ink since about 2014; your bottle is at least seven years old. 

[agentdaffy007]

4 hours ago, Frank C said:

Thanks for posting this. Your sister is a fortunate person. My sister is too high-strung to use a fountain pen. I do have a bottle of Sei Boku around here somewhere. I'm still trying to decide on my next ink. 

 

Your MB Midnight Blue Iron Gall may have oxidized. When it's fresh, the iron compounds (ferrous tannate) in iron gall ink are all in suspension. Once exposed to oxygen, they start to oxidize (ferric tannate) and precipitate. They also polymerize with some other molecules to form insoluble compounds. On paper or parchment that creates a permanent mark; in the bottle, it creates sludge. 

 

Montblanc hasn't made an IG ink since about 2014; your bottle is at least seven years old. 

 

Hi, I think it is more due to me not using my pen enough and it just dries out.

 

After a fresh fill, it would work marvelously.

[invisuu]

15 hours ago, agentdaffy007 said:

I tried quite a few inks with the MB 149 Calligraphy.

 

- Pelikan 4001 Black is way too dry.

- MB Midnight Blue IG is too dry as well and it clogs my nib. Weird

- J. Herbin Perle Noir is too wet.

- MB Permanent Blue is a great ink

- Sailor Sei Boku is just perfect! My favorite

 

I gave a bottle of Aurora Black and MB 146 to my sister. Doubt that she ever use the pen nor the ink. Gonna try to refill my pen with her bottle and see how it goes.

 

I'll try the MB Racing Green and MB Mahatma Gandhi and report back eventually.

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about the Aurora Black in your calligraphy Montblanc. 

[RBullCZ]

9 hours ago, invisuu said:

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about the Aurora Black in your calligraphy Montblanc. 

+1

[fpupulin]

Hem, hem... I am re-posting here a reply that was prepared to answer the curiosity of some members about the behavior of the Aurora Black ink. For some reasons (probably due my age...), I posted it in the wrong thread, so I am rectifying the situation here.

 

----

 

As I finished the fill of the Blue Permanent ink in my pen, and after washing her thoroughly, I decided to give the Aurora Black a try, to share with you my impressions of this ink and its behavior with the Calligraphy nib. I used it on the quite cheap paper of the Moleskine ruled cahier, which I use to most, on a more fountain pen-friendly paper by Graf von Faber Castell, and on a high-quality laid paper. Eventually, on the same papers, I compared the Aurora Black with Montblanc's Black Permanent, one of my inks of choice.

 

 

In the first image, you can see the same letter written, from left to right, with Montblanc Blue Permanent, Aurora Black, and Permanent Black. It is possible to observe quite clearly how with both permanent Montblanc colors the Calligraphy nib can release a thinner stroke than it produces using the Aurora Black, which is much more fluid. In the next image, which shows the reverse of the sheet, it is also possible to observe how Aurora Black is the only one of the three inks that bleeds through the Moleskine paper.

 

 

A comparison of writing follows, always on the same paper. 

 

 

Here we can see, first of all, how the Black Permament is decidedly blacker than the Aurora Black in terms of darkness. Also in this more extensive text, Black Permanent is the ink that makes the most of the Calligraphy pen's ability to trace extra-fine lines. The Aurora bleeds through the page, as you may observe in the nest shot, while the Montblanc never crosses the fibers of the paper. 

 

 

[fpupulin]

Sorry, the system gives me an error when I try to upload more images, so I can not continue here my post about the comparison between the two inks.

 

Yo may continue reading it here, where I posted it yesterday:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/352752-montblanc-149-calligraphy-nib-a-personal-view-for-those-still-on-the-fence/page/5/#comments

 

[RBullCZ]

Thank you fpupulin, your comparison is very helpful.