Kaweco Dia2 Or Platinum 3776 ?

[Karmachanic]

My preference by far would be getting an original Kaweco Dia 85 after which the Dia2 is modeled.

 

It writes so much better than any modern Kaweco and it's a true piston filler.

 

Spendier and not so easy to find tho'. But I'll keep looking!

[OMASsimo]

 

Spendier and not so easy to find tho'. But I'll keep looking!

 

 

Sure, but they are still pretty common. They may need a bit of restoration work, though.

[grainweevil]

Funny, I almost mentioned vintage myself but would hesitate to put an ink such as Souboku in one. That and I'd rather demand didn't go up until I've got one in rather better nick than the one I have!

[dave321]

Enjoy the Kaweco. Either pen is worthwhile. As jchch1950 said, you might as well get the Platinum as well.

 

Erick

 

yes absolutely, maybe a Christmas present

[Karmachanic]

 

 

Sure, but they are still pretty common. They may need a bit of restoration work, though.

 

See what you made me do. Dia 86 EF flex should be here by next Friday .

Edited June 10, 2020 by Karmachanic

[OMASsimo]

 

See what you made me do. Dia 86 EF flex should be here by next Friday .

 

Oh boy, a lost case, I pledge "guilty".

 

Is "86" a typo? I only know the series Dia 83/85/87 (in increasing size). By the way, the corresponding 183/185/187 are the Elite series with guilloched barrels and bi-colour metal parts. Anyway, I hope you'll enjoy your new acquisition. Oh, and before I forget it, the "8x A" and "18x A" are the corresponing pens with steel nibs, without "A" they should have 14k gold nibs.

 

 

yes absolutely, maybe a Christmas present

 

Sorry for hijacking your thread. But if you have patience till Christmas, you have excellent chances finding a good vintage one.

[Karmachanic]

 

Oh boy, a lost case, I pledge "guilty".

 

Is "86" a typo? I only know the series Dia 83/85/87 (in increasing size). By the way, the corresponding 183/185/187 are the Elite series with guilloched barrels and bi-colour metal parts. Anyway, I hope you'll enjoy your new acquisition. Oh, and before I forget it, the "8x A" and "18x A" are the corresponing pens with steel nibs, without "A" they should have 14k gold nibs.

 

 

Typo. 87A. Thanks for the particulars. 187 goes on the list!

 

[dave321]

how safe would you feel about using Pelikan Blue-Black in a new DIA2 ?

it is an iron gall ink but I understand the levels are quite low.

 

I also have some reservations on using souboku , although souboku seems fine in my Lamy Safari

 

or would you just stick to safe and sane water based Diamine ?

[Karmachanic]

how safe would you feel about using Pelikan Blue-Black in a new DIA2 ?

it is an iron gall ink but I understand the levels are quite low.

 

I also have some reservations on using souboku , although souboku seems fine in my Lamy Safari

 

or would you just stick to safe and sane water based Diamine ?

 

Go for it. Modern IG inks are safe in in modern pens. As you have already demonstrated to yourself with the Lamy

[Ron Z]

 

Go for it. Modern IG inks are safe in in modern pens. As you have already demonstrated to yourself with the Lamy

But I still wouldn't use them in pens with steel nibs. I used to use MB blue-black for documents, and found corrosion on the underside of nibs. I guess I'd want to test with current stuff on a cheap pen first.

[A Smug Dill]

how safe would you feel about using Pelikan Blue-Black in a new DIA2 ?

 

I feel Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black ink is more than safe enough to use in my steel nibbed Pelikan M205 Blue-Marbled piston-filler. The Kaweco DIA2, in my view, is a slightly lesser pen and less precious pen (in terms of brand name, replacement cost, etc.) than the Pelikan M205, hence lesser prospective impact to the owner arising from the risk of damaging the pen; but not so much that I'd worry about the quality of its construction and materials as I might a much cheaper Chinese-made pen, hence equally low likelihood of that risk eventuating. That makes it a lesser risk overall, and so I'd be even less worried about going ahead and putting Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black ink in a new Kaweco DIA2.

[peroride]

But I still wouldn't use them in pens with steel nibs. I used to use MB blue-black for documents, and found corrosion on the underside of nibs. I guess I'd want to test with current stuff on a cheap pen first.

 

I always like this specific sage advice especially from @Ron Z who has done many a great repair and with vast experience.

 

Often times I read X is the best and harmless and many not knowing any better/starting out (me) are gullible enough to think well if they did it always that way or it worked for that pen, it must work for any similar pen.

 

Taking the real cost of repair or replacement is probably often overlooked as pens can hide (bleep) well unless one tinkers. I prefer to just write and basic maintenance. That is why I like the Dia2 with the replacement nibs over the 3776. Sometimes it's not money but memory that is valued. The 3776 is replaceable but the value is increased because it was a souvenir from a trip to Japan.

 

Modern IG (which i love ) + Gold = so far so good, but I've only tested Platinum Classics, R&K, KWZ on the flushable 3776 c/c.

 

But one day, what if? Ah, hard to replace memory. What about a Nakaya? Same nib, but maybe different risk tolerance.

 

Modern IG + Steel = mixed bag. The k crooker reference has been poo pood but I think that healthy skepticism and testing is/was a value contribution to the community. I'd hate to see a steel custom ground nib eaten away or on one of these specials because a lack of due diligence. Maybe it works for a Lamy but not a Kaweco or cut JoWo or stacked PenSloth. But they're all steel? Maybe not all ink batches are consistently the same or change over time. How would one know?

 

So again it goes back to what @Ron Z and @A Smug Dill noted, assess risk and value.

 

IMHO testing, testing, testing and erring on the conservative side I find saves headaches. Or if you're like me, just break things and get in Ron's repair line at a pen show

 

Support your local pen specialists/repair folk!

 

btw only the 3776 has a stock nib and all pens are valued so less time with modern IG in them

[A Smug Dill]

Modern IG (which i love ) + Gold = so far so good, but I've only tested Platinum Classics, R&K, KWZ on the flushable 3776 c/c.

_...‹snip›...

btw only the 3776 has a stock nib and all pens are valued so less time with modern IG in them

Exactly why I advocate spending more on a gold-nibbed pen, and on which the cap seals and prevents ink evaporation effectively, to use with iron-gall inks if that's the particular user's ink preference. I seriously doubt any iron-gall ink will do damage to a 21K gold Sailor nib with the 1911 imprint, especially if the nib is not (rhodium- or ruthenium-)plated. Putting iron-gall ink in a ≥$400 Sailor pen fitted with a 21K gold Naginata nib is perfectly cool, but putting the same ink in a ≤$40 pen fitted with a steel nib is more risky, in my opinion. Not that I've seen any of my iron-gall inks "eat" pits on PenBBS steel nibs or some such, but that's simply because I haven't tried.

 

My most recent purchase of a Platinum #3776 Century pen was for ~US$90 (at the time, back in February 2020), including international delivery to Australia, a 'Black Diamond' with a rhodinated 14K gold nib. I cannot think of a single reason why I would not prefer that to a steel-nibbed Kaweco DIA2 pen within 10% price difference, no matter which ink I choose to use with my "new pen"; iron-gall ink won't corrode the gold nib, and pigment ink won't dry in the feed and clog the pen because of the effectiveness of the Slip-and-Seal mechanism in the Platinum pen's cap, so it's definitely a better all-rounder in my view.

[peroride]

The funny thing is Ranga and Dia2 are higher on the scale than the 3776 for me

 

One thing that I learned from @Bo Bo Olsen postings was the appreciation of balance of a pen or to my sense, how does the pen feel? I've also taken to some value of aesthetics versus just more checks on the spec sheet.

 

For me, the Dia2 even with the smaller nib is well balanced, posts better that the 3776 (i only have Briar) and has the vintage looks modern convenience. Nevermind the added bonus that it takes Bock titanium or gold for reassurance with IG and also the heritage aesthetic, those weight more in my value matrix. The only negative with Kaweco is the bleep converters which is actually worth mentioning as I have 2 that don't fit any of their own pens?!

 

The Ranga does the same as Dia2 posting well, nib pairing with Jowo instead taking semi-flex gold, FNF flex or specialty nibs from Regalia Writing Labs, MontyWinnfield, etc with the joy of ebonite ripple that looks like my vintage Waterman 55

 

The 3776 has the memory of our time in Japan and meeting Morita-san in Osaka so that evens things a bit.

 

At the end of the day, opinions invariably dwell back to different strokes for different folks.

 

But at least we can all share and learn something new that we may be refine our tastes over time.

[A Smug Dill]

the 3776 has the "slip and seal" mechanism and has a largish nib which i like,

 

The Platinum 3776 is superior in most ways.

 

First of all, the Platinum has a gold nib, the Kaweco does not. The variety of nibs you can get for the Platinum is greater as well.

 

The body of the 3776 comes in many different colors and varieties; the Kaweco does not.

 

The funny thing is Ranga and Dia2 are higher on the scale than the 3776 for me _...‹snip›... For me, the Dia2 even with the smaller nib is well balanced, posts better that the 3776 (i only have Briar)

To me, there isn't a singular "the Platinum #3776"; the nominally US$800 (or, in Japan, with a MSRP of ¥80,000+tax) #3776 Celluloid Chinkin [PTB-80000SR] is a Platinum #3776 pen, and so is nominally US$50 steel-nibbed Platinum #3776 Balance [PTB-5000B] (which has been relatively recently discontinued, some time within the past 24 months). Neither of those is in the Century line and fitted with the Slip-and-Seal mechanism, by the way; the most "premium" #3776 model with the S&S mechanism is the #3776 Century 'Aizu' Maki-e [PNB-70000C], and the most "basic" would be the recently-discontinued PNB-10000 line — which included the gold-nibbed, gold-trimmed 'Black in Black', Chartres Blue and Bourgogne models — that has been replaced by the PNB-13000 line. So, we're talking about a range of models that span six-, seven- or even up to sixteen-fold the price of the cheapest model in terms of price points, in different colours, materials and other characteristics (including but not limited to body weight, and balance with or without posting the cap).

 

My wife and I have about ten models – 2 briarwood, 1 yakusugi, 1 celluloid, 2 kanazawa-haku, and 4 clear-or-translucent ones, plus the sterling silver 'The Prime' 100th Anniversary commemorative edition outside of Platinum's regular catalogue) in the #3776 family here. We don't generally post the caps on our pens, unless it's a "pocket" pen (such as a Pilot Elite 95S) that requires posting to achieve a functional length (as opposed to weight distribution or balance) when writing, so I can't comment on that aspect, because it always feels weird in the hand to different degrees.

 

All I can say is that, as a general statement, Platinum offers the best value for money out of the Japanese 'Big Three' brands (although I personally prefer Sailor the best); and, among the "basic" gold-nibbed, cigar-shaped pens in each of those brands' representative product families — Platinum #3776, Sailor 1911 Standard, and Pilot Custom 74 — the Platinum #3776 Century (PNB-10000 and now PNB-13000) pens win hands down in terms of look and feel for me.

 

The 3776 has the memory of our time in Japan and meeting Morita-san in Osaka so that evens things a bit.

 

At the end of the day, opinions invariably dwell back to different strokes for different folks.

Sometimes it's not money but memory that is valued. The 3776 is replaceable but the value is increased because it was a souvenir from a trip to Japan.

I try not to be sentimental about my pens, just as I'm not sentimental about my weapons, but care primarily about replacement cost. I know some folks here may neither understand nor appreciate the imagery or metaphors I use (even though they reflect how I actually think), but when I pick up a stick or knife to 'use', the purpose is to block steel, break bone, cut flesh and/or spill blood; and I am the bridge between tool and purpose. It wouldn't matter to me if the stick has runes carved into its surface by a mythical being in Asgard and held by generations of 'special' custodians of the artefact, or the dagger passed down from my great-great-grandaunt; or I wouldn't be fighting with it at all, but only keeping it in a display case and, if ever, only taking it out to be fondled once in a blue moon.

 

A gold-nibbed Platinum #3776 Century Bourgogne or 'Black Diamond' is way too common to be prized and kept away from the wear and tear of actual use. The only question about its value is whether I'm able to make use of it properly with my technique (and preferences) to get the outcome I want out of it on the page. I don't value a $100 Tefal frying pan or $100 Global one-piece-forged chef's knife that much to not want it damaged or tarnished through everyday usage in cooking, so why would I a $100 Platinum #3776 Century (or cheaper Kaweco DIA2) fountain pen?

 

If someone asked for advice on a pen to acquire as a prized possession, to have and to hold, to love and to cherish, then I wouldn't offer an opinion as it's so subjective. But, to spend $100 or less on an easily acquired and replaceable tool (for writing, as it were) — that will eventually be replaced, discarded or sidelined — I stand by my assessment that the "basic" gold-nibbed Platinum #3776 Century is a safe bet, and objectively superior (in agreement with @langere) than a German pen of equally little sentimental value in its own right.

[dave321]

_{well I have a Bock 076 nib which is gold plated steel to put in the dia 2, so I am reasonably happy}

_{from what has been said to use the pelican blue-black.}

 

_{ok its gold plated not 21k but I think it will be ok}

_{and lets face it its not that expensive to replace.}

 

_{all the above comments from users is really helpful and interesting to read.}

_{this is a great forum for fountain pen users !!}

 

_{I am hoping the pen will arrive today}

[MuddyWaters]

I think the kaweco nibs are mediocre. My sport nib was terrible and so baby bottomed. A platinum nib would no doubt surpass it. The dia2 doesn't really have any stand out qualities except appearance and that tiny nib unit/collar that could potentially fit vintage nibs without a home.

 

If there is no specific quality in the kaweco pen that is needed, I would also suggest checking Faber Castell pens and even saving for a Lamy 2000, if you want to stick to the German world. There you will get a respectable nib in a body that can surpass Japanese plastic pens of sub $200 price.

Edited June 12, 2020 by MuddyWaters

[dave321]

My pen arrived and I am very pleased with it,

nice weight

great retro look and fitted with the Bock#5 076 nib, which as you can see is quite a bit bigger than the supplied Kaweco nib.

 

inked with Pelikan blue-black the Bock nib is a very smooth writer !!

 

I am well pleased, …...a nice bday present to myself !

[MuddyWaters]

That's a looker! Congrats Dave. The 076 nib is not only broader-shouldered but also longer than the 060. That's nice.

[Karmachanic]

I used to use MB blue-black for documents, and found corrosion on the underside of nibs.

Modern or vintage? I ask as I have seen posts, in various places, of modern steel nibs on pens filled with current IG left for many weeks to no ill effect.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Karmachanic