What Does Engraved Number On Snorkel Mean?

[3rdlakerobert]

1521 is Item 204857203984 on eBay right now. It has a gold Snorkel tube but an incorrect section. The PdAg nib looks correct for a first-year pen, but my guess is it's a non-original tube/nib. Also, the cap is from a non White Dot pen.

 

[gmark_wa]

On 6/29/2024 at 6:13 AM, 3rdlakerobert said:

1521 is Item 204857203984 on eBay right now. It has a gold Snorkel tube but an incorrect section. The PdAg nib looks correct for a first-year pen, but my guess is it's a non-original tube/nib. Also, the cap is from a non White Dot pen.

 

Yes, it certainly looks like a Snorkel assembled from the spare parts bin. I’ll record it as ‘model unknown’. 

[gmark_wa]

Black Saratoga #1365

 

There is a black Snorkel Saratoga with barrel number 1365 on eBay.  The number is not clear in the photo, but the title of the post and the pen description indicates it is 1365.  The post is at: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/256584825637

 

[Roger W.]

Did you ever think that the numbering has nothing to do with make and model?

 

Roger W.

[gmark_wa]

On 8/3/2024 at 1:42 PM, Roger W. said:

Did you ever think that the numbering has nothing to do with make and model?

 

Roger W.

 

Hello Roger,

From the 97 numbered Snorkels identified so far, I can’t see any link between the number, model or colour.  Even pens with the same number (we have three examples) can be different models and/or colours.

G Mark W.

 

 

[FarmBoy]

Take Roger’s comment to mean there is no correlation between model and stamped number.
 

[Roger W.]

I like the pie charts on distribution of the numbers.

 

Well, I have a well supported theory as to what the numbers mean.  I've been keeping my eye out for notebooks in the files that tracked testing of pens.  There are a few of these about.  I found a notebook of one Paul Riley.  The notes start in 1953 which is solid in the area we want to be in.  There is about no reason that the numbers would correlate to make or model.  What would it tell anybody?  Sheaffer could simply track sales.  What would be more useful to tracking would be marking the pen holder for what nibs are in the pens.  Being that you are randomly finding these pens it would seem reasonable that the number referred to the pen individually but, you just haven't been getting enough of a sample.  There have started to be duplicates.  I do not have a direct correlation to show you but, what is a likely example.  Page 170 has pens either smoothed in assembly or not smoothed in assembly.  They are stub points in four groups - 1668, 1666, 1667, and 1669.  There were a dozen pens in each group.  Page 180 was group 1648 which had 24 pens for modified slope #12 fines.  Pen number 13 was given to Bill Kripp on 3/31 (53) and returned 4/10/53.  Even these notes are not exceedingly detailed but, I think they give the gist.

 

No doubt Paul Riley wasn't the only one conducting such group experiments.  Points were being tested in groups and we can see they considered these as four digit numbered groups.  Many of these pens we released one way or another to the public.  So maybe I will find someone else's notebook that has the specific numbers that have been noted in this thread.  I'm satisfied that this is the explanation as to what the numbers mean.

 

Thanks,

 

Roger W. 

[3rdlakerobert]

Well this is interesting. Thanks Roger.

 

Now I'm curious about what Riley was trying to get at. You suggest it would have something to do with the nibs and their points. 

[Roger W.]

What they would track in relationship to nibs would be really company specific.  Such as is this machine producing nib quality as well as another machine.  Does this process hold up as well as another process.  I don't mean to be too vague but, the stuff doesn't mean too much to me though a person trained in quality control might appreciate.  For instance - "Round-out - very non-uniform - some O.K. Some on one side only".  And maybe some of the greater scrutiny achieved creating a better product since someone was looking at the details.  One note says that nib smoothness is better than it has been in months.  I've looked at similar notebooks before and they are generally too specific on a process to lend themselves for an article.  They are looking at production like someone interested in the details would - just not that interesting at the macro level.

 

Roger W.  

 

 

[3rdlakerobert]

Yes, I guess I see what you mean. The numbers on the pens allow quality control people to look at long-term nib performance, if they have in place a reporting procedure for whoever is servicing pens in the field. Otherwise they wouldn't need pen numbers--they would just examine pens coming off the line.

 

However, it's hard to understand why so many different numbers exist. 

[gmark_wa]

Four new numbered Snorkles from eBay:

• Grey Snorkel Statesman #0147 with M4 nib (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/196546015771)
• Aqua Snorkel Admiral #0841 with M2 nib (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/225470100316)
• Grey Snorkel Admiral #0974 with M2 nib (https://www.ebay.com/itm/235682964502)
• Aqua Snorkel Statesman #1057 (repeat number), stickered in box with matching pencil (https://www.ebay.com/itm/235682925170)

 

Thanks to 3rdlakerobert for spotting 0147 and 1057.

[gmark_wa]

Aqua Snorkel Admiral #1004

 

There is an Aqua Snorkel Admiral on eBay with barrel no. 1004. The post is at https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/365102056341

 

[gmark_wa]

Black Snorkel Sentinel #0323

 

There is a Black Snorkel Sentinel with barrel no. 0323 on eBay. It has a G4 nib and matching pencil. Both are personalised ‘MARY CASSIDA’

 

The post is at: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/166961605352

 

[inkstainedruth]

Does the pencil also have the number code engraved on it?  That would be interesting because that would suggest that they were actually a set....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[gmark_wa]

15 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

Does the pencil also have the number code engraved on it?  That would be interesting because that would suggest that they were actually a set....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

No, the pencil does not appear to have a number (from the photos in the eBay post).  I now have 103 numbered Snorkels in the database.  So far, I have seen ten with matching pencils but have not seen any numbers on the pencils.

[gmark_wa]

Aqua Snorkel Statesman #0188

 

There is an Aqua Snorkel Statesman with barrel no. 0188 on eBay.  The post is at: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/226344623173

 

 

 

[gmark_wa]

Aqua Snorkel Admiral #0701

 

 

There is an Aqua Snorkel Admiral with barrel no. 0701 on eBay. I have confirmed the number with the seller.  The pen has an F2 nib and is being sold with a matching pencil in a black clamshell-style 2-pen case. The post is at: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/356069004287

 

[gmark_wa]

Black Snorkel Statesman #0811

 

There is a Black Snorkel statesman with barrel no. 0811 on eBay. It has a M4 nib. The post is at: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/156423114049

 

[gmark_wa]

Two more numbered Snorkels on eBay 

Black Snorkel Crest with F5 nib and barrel no. 0280. The photo is not clear but I have confirmed it with the seller. The post is at: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/226370692285

Burgundy Snorkel Admiral with barrel no. 0395. The post is at: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/235758868980

 

[gmark_wa]

Black Snorkel Clipper #2037

 

There is a Black Snorkle Clipper on eBay with barrel no. 2037.  The post is at: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/315792725338