Iron Gall Inks?

[Carguy]

So, Ive been playing with fountain pens and various inks now for nearly 20 years. Im certain that Im no expert, torn between being a collector/pen junkie and a pen whisperer/finder. That being said, Im sure that I cant be the only person who doesnt know what Im getting ready to ask....my dumb questions for the day.

 

What exactly are iron gall inks and what makes them different and for what purpose are they used?

 

After you guys get done snickering at me, Id love to know that answer. 🥴

 

Mike

[silverlifter]

What are they? Wikipedia has an excellent article.

 

For what purpose? I use them because they dry quickly, are waterproof, shade magnificently, and change colour as you write, which can be quite beguiling.

 

Oh, and contrary to common (mis)conception, they are actually well behaved and require little, if any, extra cleaning or maintenance.

[TSherbs]

They are inks with an ferrous component that makes them more water-resistant. And typically a bit darker as they dry (darker toward grayblack). Some can feel drier on the nib, too, as you write. But not all.

[A Smug Dill]

I'd say @silverlifter summed it up rather comprehensively.

 

As for the purpose for which iron-gall inks are used, first and foremost it's "just" an ink, and people use it to make persistently legible marks on paper. For whatever purpose you'd use any other ink (without any special requirement that it is lightfast, waterproof, forgery-resistant, etc.), you can use an iron-gall ink. You can write with it, draw with it, sign documents with it, just like with any other ink (that meets some requirement such as using only particular colours for formal paperwork, if need be).

 

Some people worry about what iron-gall inks may do to this component or that in their pens, which would otherwise be (much) less of a concern with, say, pH-neutral dye-based inks; but preservation or protection of pens is not a purpose of an ink at all, and neither is wilful destruction of fountain pens that ought to be fit for purpose.

 

Iron-gall inks are, as a generalisation, often thought of as "better behaved" on "cheap" paper than saturated, exclusively dye-based inks. If, say, containing the degree of feathering on the edges of the ink marks you put on the page is part of how you think of an ink's purpose, then perhaps iron-gall inks are even better suited some other inks that could be used for the same purpose.

 

If having ink marks on the page change colour noticeably while you watch is another purpose you have in mind, either independent of or in conjunction with actually capturing content on paper persistently, then there aren't many dye-based inks that are up to that task. I don't know how many people require that as part of an ink's purpose, as opposed to just a fun bonus feature an ink may have while serving its main purpose.

 

Here's an illustration of the colour change exhibited by one particular iron-gall ink:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/352284-inks-and-intrinsic-beauty/?do=findComment&comment=4295785

and I'm sure you can find video clips that are primarily intended to show that phenomenon, in an alternative format that some readers may prefer.

 

As for iron-gall inks being water-resistant, some are, some aren't.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/351047-water-resistance-of-some-iron-gall-inks-compared/

I personally haven't come across an iron-gall ink that is waterproof; the dye component of the ink always come off on (brief or prolonged) contact with water. I've seen a claim that Hero #232 Blue-Black ink is iron-gall and waterproof, so I've just placed an order for some not even ten hours ago, but it'll be many weeks before I'll receive the products from China if they get sent and arrive at all.

Edited March 6, 2020 by A Smug Dill

[Mech-for-i]

well , traditional blue black iron gall ink are completely water proof once dried, modern day iron gall ink often are find with dyes within the formula to give better colour so to speak .. and its those dye part that;s not water proof. Tha stated, yes iron gall ink do eat metal plating, I've used them for decades and seen too many, especially plated nibs , they will be get stripped bare if used with IG ink for long , its just a nature of the ink itself

[TheDutchGuy]

If having ink marks on the page change colour noticeably while you watch is another purpose you have in mind, either independent of or in conjunction with actually capturing content on paper persistently, then there aren't many dye-based inks that are up to that task.

 

 

In another discussion I have pointed out the very close similarity between Pelikan 4001 Blue Black and Iroshizuku shin-kai. Both change colour, in almost exactly the same way, from blue to a kind of grey-ish blue black. Apparently, Pelikan 4001 Blue Black contains iron gall but shin-kai does not. That’s hearsay, I cannot prove or disprove it.

[Mech-for-i]

well Pilot always maintain that their Iroshizuku ink are dye based only , never claiming any regarding IG

[inkstainedruth]

I have liked a lot of the IG inks I've tried. They do take a tad more maintenance, in that you should flush them with diluted vinegar solution instead of (or at least before) flushing with ammonia solution, so you don't have bad pH interactions -- flushing before, between, and afterwards with distilled water. And you should flush more often than you might normally (I would not run an IG ink in a pen for anything like the amount of time I have run Waterman Mysterious Blue in one of my Vacumatics, for instance.

But beyond that? Modern IG inks are not nearly as corrosive as vintage ones (which were designed for dip pen use only). And remember, that stainless steel nibs are a lot hardier than plain steel dip pen nibs (which were designed to regularly be replaced) -- I use IG inks in my Parker Vectors all the time. Some people say that you shouldn't use them in sac pens: the only issue I've had was with some vintage Sanford Pen-It in a Pilot Metropolitan (the sac in the Con-B converter turned to goo) -- but I chalked that up to the fact that the ink was probably bad to start with.

The one real complaint that I have with IG inks is that they are not remotely UV resistant -- but I have enough modern inks that are, so that I don't worry about it that much.

Right now I have R&K Salix in a Parker Vector. I also really like a number of the KWZ IG inks that I've tried (barring a couple of colors) and Akkerman Ijzer-Galnoten and a couple of the Platinum Classic inks (Lavender Black and Forest Black) as well. And I keep waffling between hoarding and using the little bottle of Turkish Night that FPN member Pharmacist made a few years ago, because the color is drop-dead gorgeous (unfortunately, he's fallen off the planet apparently -- I haven't seen a post from him in a couple of years).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[silverlifter]

you should flush them with diluted vinegar solution instead of (or at least before) flushing with ammonia solution, so you don't have bad pH interactions -- flushing before, between, and afterwards with distilled water

 

Ruth, you keep repeating this as a "you should", as if it is gospel. It is *not*.

 

Konrad, of KWZ, who is an actual chemist working with iron galls has provided comprehensive advice on maintenance, and among other things, it urges caution around using ammonia.

 

If you are going to keep repeating this, please make it clear that it is *your approach* and that others *may* consider it. Personally, as someone who has used IG inks for decades, I find it completely unnecessary, but I appreciate that you may find it enjoyable.

[Honeybadgers]

 

Ruth, you keep repeating this as a "you should", as if it is gospel. It is *not*.

 

Konrad, of KWZ, who is an actual chemist working with iron galls has provided comprehensive advice on maintenance, and among other things, it urges caution around using ammonia.

 

If you are going to keep repeating this, please make it clear that it is *your approach* and that others *may* consider it. Personally, as someone who has used IG inks for decades, I find it completely unnecessary, but I appreciate that you may find it enjoyable.

 

 

I find it weird that KWZ iron galls behave so badly. I kinda had higher hopes for them. I love the way they smell though. Like cream soda.

[silverlifter]

 

 

I find it weird that KWZ iron galls behave so badly. I kinda had higher hopes for them. I love the way they smell though. Like cream soda.

 

How so? Apart from being a little wetter than traditional IGs, I find them vey well behaved.

[Antenociticus]

 

 

I find it weird that KWZ iron galls behave so badly. I kinda had higher hopes for them. I love the way they smell though. Like cream soda.

The proprietor of my excellent local papeterie will not stock KWZ inks precisely because she doesn't like the way they smell.

[Carguy]

Thank you all for the answers. My main ink brand of choice is Diamine, with some Sailor for good measure. I’ve simply never used iron gall inks.

 

MD

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

I have found salix, scabiosa and diamine registrar’s to all be extremely well behaved, even on crappy paper. No spread, no feather, no bleed. All are also slightly drier than most other inks I’ve used. I also have an ancient bottle of waterman blue black that i believe to be iron gall (same smell as diamine registrar’s) that is also extremely well behaved.

[Honeybadgers]

 

How so? Apart from being a little wetter than traditional IGs, I find them vey well behaved.

 

The three I have I find to be very prone to feathering and bleeding for IG's, compared to R&K, diamine, platinum, organics studios, or krishna. Also one of mine leaked a bit and then the entire bottle's worth of ink turned gray, so I had to throw it out, but the box was stored on its side (because the ink's label is on the top) so I think that was just my fault.

 

I'm not upset with the inks, I just find that I don't use them often because of their bad manners on bad paper.

 

For me, the best IG money can buy is diamine registrars. Lots of that great color change and it all but refuses to bleed or feather in even wet double broads on copy paper. Followed closely by platinum classic and R&K. I only have one krishna, their orange IG, but it's been pretty superb as well. The Organics studio IG turquoise they make is lovely and well mannered but has no real shading or color change.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Honeybadgers

[Bristol24]

I'd say @silverlifter summed it up rather comprehensively.

 

I personally haven't come across an iron-gall ink that is waterproof; the dye component of the ink always come off on (brief or prolonged) contact with water. I've seen a claim that Hero #232 Blue-Black ink is iron-gall and waterproof, so I've just placed an order for some not even ten hours ago, but it'll be many weeks before I'll receive the products from China if they get sent and arrive at all.

I hope you enjoy the Hero 232 ink when it finally arrives. You will find it to be very well behaved on a variety of papers with very little bleed through to the reverse side of the papers one can find out there "in the wild." As to waterproofness, 232 is 95% waterproof. It does have a dye component that says adios at the first meeting with water. The dye component does tend to somewhat obscure the darkening of the ink on the paper over time but some change in intensity of the blue to black is visible. It was a bargain 10 years ago when it sold for just a few dollars and it remains a good value even though its price is now approaching that of some mainstream inks. It is one of my favorite inks. I had it in a Levenger True Writer almost continuously for five years with no special maintenance other than a good flushing every 6 months or so.

[Tasmith]

Had my MB 146 inked with Diamine Registrar's for a week and just refilled it with R&K Salix. I did flush it between fillings. My two favorite inks as they're well behaved and very water resistant. I find Salix to write a bit drier than Registrar's and when dry is more blue-black. Registrar's dries more grey-black. They're competitively priced too.

[SchaumburgSwan]

Hi,

 

strong iron gall inks are great in my vintage Swan pens.

I love how xf lines look on Clairefontaine paper, crisp and nearly black.

 

My dearest and most used ink is ESSRI, which I prefer over Diamine's Registrar's (DRI).

DRI is a great ink, too. Fine when some extra dryness is needed.

 

From broader nibs Pelikan 4001 blue-black looks very nice...

 

Best

Jens

[Antenociticus]

I've had mixed experience with KWZ iron gall inks.

 

I have four of them in bottles – IG Blue #5, IG Blue #6, IG Green #3, IG Red #3 – and I've played with all of them a bit.

 

The blues are beautiful colours, but both bleed a bit through the papers I use, and take too long to dry. (Usually, it's either one problem or the other.) It's a shame, because otherwise I might use the #6 a lot. The Red #3 behaves nicely in a very fine nib, but the result is too dark for my purposes. The best one has been the IG Green #3. Lovely deep forest green, and I used it to fill two notebooks with writing on a trip last year, without problem for either pen (TWSBI Vac Mini F) or paper (Leuchtturm1917).

 

I've also tried a few samples – Blue-Black, Turquoise, Mandarin – but didn't like any of the colours enough to stick with them.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Antenociticus

[inkstainedruth]

 

Ruth, you keep repeating this as a "you should", as if it is gospel. It is *not*.

 

Konrad, of KWZ, who is an actual chemist working with iron galls has provided comprehensive advice on maintenance, and among other things, it urges caution around using ammonia.

 

If you are going to keep repeating this, please make it clear that it is *your approach* and that others *may* consider it. Personally, as someone who has used IG inks for decades, I find it completely unnecessary, but I appreciate that you may find it enjoyable.

 

Well, if you want to use plain (or better yet distilled water) that's fine. But if you use the "standard' ammonia solution or a commercial flush (which will likely have ammonia in it -- and very possibly have alcohol, which may be very bad for some kinds of plastics), don't come crying to me afterwards.

And remember -- the "standard" flush is a 9:1 solution of water to ammonia (or, in the case of IG inks, water to white vinegar) which is going to be fairly weak -- because commercial ammonia that you'e buy in the local grocery store, is fairly weak to begin with. But you should absolutely NOT use ammonia solution as a first pass with an IG ink because of the issue with combining an acid (the ink) and a base (the ammonia). I don't need to have a PhD in chemistry to know that (I remember that from HIGH SCHOOL -- and I'd tell you how many years ago that was except that it's not polite to ask a lady her age...). And if you don't believe me, go search for the thread someone started a few years ago trying to make the "ideal" blue black ink and mixing Noodler's Black (which I believe is supposed to be pretty neutral pH) with Noodler's Bay State Blue (which is supposed to be pretty high pH) And the results? They were NOT pretty (and which is why even Nathan Tardif says the Bay State series inks should NOT be mixed with anything except themselves...).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth