Starter Fps - Why Are They So Fugly?

[Sailor Kenshin]

Thank you, Catbert.

 

 

 

 

Hi Sailor,

 

I think you're thinking of the WS 3003.

 

Sean

Thanks. The ones I have are solid, not demonstrators...and I just realized the OP said 'swirly." Neither of these are swirly.

[corniche]

check Etsy out, I think they're active

Hi Sansenri,

 

Yes, etsy may be open, but due to Conid 19; China Post is closed until further notice. From what I understand, just about the entire country is on lockdown. There have been several discussions here about members not getting packages from China.

 

Does Etsy carry their own inventory; are they located in the U.S.?

 

FWIW, you might have a little luck on Amazon; I was able to get a Moonman m600 and a celluloid Moonman Delike from a US retailer, (about $20 each), last month, (but selection is limited).

 

Sean

[corniche]

Thanks. The ones I have are solid, not demonstrators...and I just realized the OP said 'swirly." Neither of these are swirly.

Solid colors... that's a new one to me. I don't own a 3003 myself as demos don't really appeal to me, but I do know it's a Prera copy.

 

Yeah, none of them are swirly.

 

Sean

[KCat]

Insult pens that others certainly enjoy then complain others are being snarky back at you. You see interesting people here on fpn.

 

LOL!

 

I enjoy some dang ugly pens, as well. Had a Rotring Core that was the Edsel of pens, IMO. But it was fun as heck to look at.

 

Feel free to insult my pens. You won't hurt my feelings.

 

Insult my Grand Place if it makes you feel better.

 

Heck. Insult my dog. He is one goofy lookin' mutt. Weird little lopsided, weak chin. Not the one in my avatar, he was perfect right up until he died. I may have to insult you directly if you insult That Good Boy.

 

Ah. I'm just being silly. I have no time for grudges or arguments over whether or not my snark was in the right or wrong. It simply was and it is done.

 

Back on the PEN topic.

 

Well, I just wanted thank everyone with input, including Smug Dill with whom I took the initial exception. Those are some gorgeous pens, SD.

 

I'll respond more in depth tomorrow. I see some lovely pens that all look interesting. My issue is not knowing much about a lot of them other than they be purdy. I didn't really want to go into the pretty-but-cheap market without knowing what was actually half decent and functional. Thank you.

 

My mistake was in posting while I was tired (always, it seems) and probably under the influence of Benadryl IIRC. I get a little loose on Benadryl and assume others have the same sense of humor I have, wherein words like "fugly" are meant in fun and not meant to be cruel. Lost in translation.

 

Toodle Pip, y'all.

 

p.s., I'm really not usually this, hm, fractured? emotionally labile? But really -- Going back to my Chatter thread. Life is Stupid right now.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Solid colors... that's a new one to me. I don't own a 3003 myself as demos don't really appeal to me, but I do know it's a Prera copy.

 

Yeah, none of them are swirly.

 

Sean

Nice little pens for the price, and when I looked at mine, the ONLY marking was on the nib: Wing Sung, no number. Colorful but not girly-pretty.

 

I love the looks of those Pen BBS and Moonmen.

[Estycollector]

 

LOL!

 

I enjoy some dang ugly pens, as well. Had a Rotring Core that was the Edsel of pens, IMO. But it was fun as heck to look at.

 

Feel free to insult my pens. You won't hurt my feelings.

 

Insult my Grand Place if it makes you feel better.

 

Heck. Insult my dog. He is one goofy lookin' mutt. Weird little lopsided, weak chin. Not the one in my avatar, he was perfect right up until he died. I may have to insult you directly if you insult That Good Boy.

 

Ah. I'm just being silly. I have no time for grudges or arguments over whether or not my snark was in the right or wrong. It simply was and it is done.

 

Back on the PEN topic.

 

Well, I just wanted thank everyone with input, including Smug Dill with whom I took the initial exception. Those are some gorgeous pens, SD.

 

I'll respond more in depth tomorrow. I see some lovely pens that all look interesting. My issue is not knowing much about a lot of them other than they be purdy. I didn't really want to go into the pretty-but-cheap market without knowing what was actually half decent and functional. Thank you.

 

My mistake was in posting while I was tired (always, it seems) and probably under the influence of Benadryl IIRC. I get a little loose on Benadryl and assume others have the same sense of humor I have, wherein words like "fugly" are meant in fun and not meant to be cruel. Lost in translation.

 

Toodle Pip, y'all.

 

p.s., I'm really not usually this, hm, fractured? emotionally labile? But really -- Going back to my Chatter thread. Life is Stupid right now.

 

Good post.

[sansenri]

Hi Sansenri,

 

Yes, etsy may be open, but due to Conid 19; China Post is closed until further notice. From what I understand, just about the entire country is on lockdown. There have been several discussions here about members not getting packages from China.

 

Does Etsy carry their own inventory; are they located in the U.S.?

 

FWIW, you might have a little luck on Amazon; I was able to get a Moonman m600 and a celluloid Moonman Delike from a US retailer, (about $20 each), last month, (but selection is limited).

 

Sean

in fact, I think I've seen some PenBBS pens shipping from UK.

If the pen for the OP's grand-daughter is urgent I believe there may be ways of getting it still.

At any rate I was following the sudden quest for pretty pens and enjoying the search somewhat...

[sansenri]

 

Back on the PEN topic.

 

Well, I just wanted thank everyone with input, including Smug Dill with whom I took the initial exception. Those are some gorgeous pens, SD.

 

I'll respond more in depth tomorrow. I see some lovely pens that all look interesting. My issue is not knowing much about a lot of them other than they be purdy. I didn't really want to go into the pretty-but-cheap market without knowing what was actually half decent and functional. Thank you.

 

My mistake was in posting while I was tired (always, it seems) and probably under the influence of Benadryl IIRC. I get a little loose on Benadryl and assume others have the same sense of humor I have, wherein words like "fugly" are meant in fun and not meant to be cruel. Lost in translation.

 

Toodle Pip, y'all.

 

p.s., I'm really not usually this, hm, fractured? emotionally labile? But really -- Going back to my Chatter thread. Life is Stupid right now.

several of these "pretty but cheap" are quite decent pens. ASD has picked up quite a few it seems and can probably describe them better than me.

The Moonman pens (of which I own 4 so far) are reasonable pens for the asking price, but as often happens with Chinese pens they suffer slightly of QC reproducibility (if you get a good one it can be really good if you get a dud it's bad...). The failure rate has decreased vs previous Chinese pens though, and sellers have become rather reliable (I got a faulty M600s and the seller returned the money promptly).

They usually look very good, nice colours, nice resins. The nibs can be a surprise, good, or sometimes bad, if you have some patience you can fine tune them to write well, and even swapping the nib with other #6 nibs is relatively easy.

A few times threading is not too precise (cross threading), but again it depends on how lucky you are.

 

In my suggestions I was trying to think what a 7 year old girl would look for. I don't have a grand-daughter yet, but when my daughter was 7 (quite a few years ago...) I know that things she wanted had to look flashy, precious, girly colour and all that...

Even a solid colour pen would be appreciated if it were fucsia (for example) instead of black...

 

I do also undertand handing a more expensive pen to a 7 year old, however.

When I was 6 my first pen was a Pelikan 120. I assume that pen was not exactly cheap in the mid sixties, but I'm glad I learned writing on a "serious" pen.

[Mercian]

Perhaps ‘starter pens’ are actually designed - deliberately intended - to be fugly?

 

Making them clunky-looking means that an adult who gifts the pen to a child won’t feel as horrified at the ‘waste’ if the child loses the pen, or uses it to poke sticks around in a fire, or digs in the garden with it, etc

 

Also, restricting beautiful pens to the more ‘grown-up’ market enables a parent to say to their children ‘you can have the pretty pen once you’ve learned to write beautifully’ and/or ‘once you’ve proven that you can look after a pen properly’.

And, from the Marketing Department’s POV, it encourages/trains us from an early age to Keep On Chasing The Shiny, and to buy ever-more-expensive pens.
E.g. I find that I am currently Coveting an 800-series Pelikan Souverän. Those cost over £300 if one is buying new.

I can only imagine the horrified reaction of my Yorkshire ancestors if I were to tell them that I was thinking of spending that kind of money on a mere pen

[Bibliophage]

Perhaps ‘starter pens’ are actually designed - deliberately intended - to be fugly?

 

Making them clunky-looking means that an adult who gifts the pen to a child won’t feel as horrified at the ‘waste’ if the child loses the pen, or uses it to poke sticks around in a fire, or digs in the garden with it, etc

 

Also, restricting beautiful pens to the more ‘grown-up’ market enables a parent to say to their children ‘you can have the pretty pen once you’ve learned to write beautifully’ and/or ‘once you’ve proven that you can look after a pen properly’.

 

And, from the Marketing Department’s POV, it encourages/trains us from an early age to Keep On Chasing The Shiny, and to buy ever-more-expensive pens.

E.g. I find that I am currently Coveting an 800-series Pelikan Souverän. Those cost over £300 if one is buying new.

I can only imagine the horrified reaction of my Yorkshire ancestors if I were to tell them that I was thinking of spending that kind of money on a mere pen

Let me guess, the ancestors that created copper wire by fighting over a penny?

 

I just haven't seen a pen that I think is _worth_ more than, say, $150. And I need to sell that one

[Mercian]

Let me guess, the ancestors that created copper wire by fighting over a penny?

 

That’s them, aye

[Arkanabar]

Many of my FPR pens, including the Himalayas, needed a bit of tweaking and/or tinkering to become stellar, which I regard as not unusual. I don't cycle through my pens near so much as I used to, so right now there are some that aren't there yet. But Kevin's customer service is truly stellar, and he will absolutely go at least a couple extra miles to correct any issues he becomes aware of.

 

Additionally, he offers quite an array of nibs -- both #6 and #5.5 in XF, F, and M; there's a small premium for B, 1.0mm stub, and flex, and a bigger one for Ultra Flex (one of his flex nibs with the Ease My Flex mod). Several reviews on his site claim his regular flex nibs are nicer than Noodler's flex nibs, and for flexy fans, his ultra flex is probably one of the easiest entries into that world. And he offers most (if not all) in both steel and gold, though his gold nibs start at 109USD, a la carte.

 

Me, I'm not into flex. I like stubs. Kevin's stubs have a fairly small aspect ratio. I'd say that a narrow stroke is around half as wide as a wide one, and any spread or feathering will obscure even that difference. I barely notice any line variation writing with my usual inks on my usual low-budget salvage copy paper.

 

Most of his pens are of the same sort of somewhat stinky vegetal resin that Noodler's uses. A brief application of diluted bleach is probably the best way to mitigate the smell, if it's overwhelming. The fillers on the acrylic Himalaya pens are also vegetal resin. I'd say that if you're looking for pretty, swirly plastic, the Himalaya V1 is your entry point. I am weird enough to prefer the smaller nibs and the syringe filler to the #6 nib and internal piston filler, though I do think that the #6 nib leads to a better section profile.

[A Smug Dill]

Out of the pen models I've shown in my photo earlier, I'd definitely recommend against choosing a FPR Himalaya ahead of whichever other model. Their converters smell and are of awful quality. In spite of being threaded and screws onto the section, in my experience they're less secure against dislodgement and/or leakage than typical converters in the tradition of a Schmidt K5; and the push-and-pull driving mechanism for the piston is rudimentary and harder to use than a rotary mechanism. I don't think that the considerations for which some adult users favour that pen model, such as the ebonite feed, supposed ease of swapping nibs, or the ability to use it as an eyedroppered pen, are relevant for a cheap fountain pen for a seven-year-old child to use. The cap doesn't seal well against ink evaporation, and I say so from my experience with half a dozen FPR HImalaya pens I have here.

 

If a self-motivated user wants to give the FPR Himalaya a try, after having already had experience with two dozen or more other cheap Chinese (inclusive of Taiwanese), Japanese and perhaps Indian pens, because of the room for tinkering, that'd be a different story. Even then, I'd recommend the PenBBS 308 or Lorelei 019 well ahead of the FPR pens, which come with better converters, are designed to be eyedropper-able, employ threaded nib units for easy nib swapping but also allows any number of other-branded #6 nibs to be swapped into the housing just like a friction-fit nib, and have more effective caps.

 

In my opinion, the FPR Himalaya simply cannot be "stellar" no matter how much effort you put into the project; for the same amount of dollars and effort, there are umpteen other options with which you'd get a better-performing and more reliable writing instrument, unless you're specifically looking for either the FPR flex nibs or something to house an oddball "vintage" nib that other modern pen models won't accommodate.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the FPR Himalaya pens, otherwise I wouldn't have so many of them (and they weren't bought all at once); but I think they're second-rate as "starter" fountain pens for the asking price, compared to what else is available in today's market.

Edited February 29, 2020 by A Smug Dill

[KCat]

How about one of the clear Preras with colored translucent ends?

 

Or a nice vintage pen a Lady Sheaffer is petite and pretty, and should be around the same price.

 

The Lady Sheaffer is an interesting take.

 

Every acrylic-bodied pen in the photo below cost me less than US$50 individually.

 

 

(Shown: Moonman S1, three Moonman M100, three Moonman M200, Moonman M600S, three FPR Himalaya v1, two Delike New Moon 2, PenBBS 309, PenBBS 308, Lingmo Lorelei 667, two Lingmo Lorelei 019)[...]

 

but I wouldn't presume to limit their choices in ways they choose to limit themselves.

 

Pretty. I'm sure any of those would appeal to her. I'm sure just about any pen would appeal to her. Even the kid's pens.

 

I can be pretty self-limiting sometimes. Just like a virus.

 

Generally agreed but I would suggest looking into the waterman audace line.

 

 

A bit out of the price range but just wild enough she would love. I'll keep these in mind for later.

My children (10 & 11 years old now) love and use (since starting school at the age of 5/6) their Kaweco Sports most. They also use their Pelikan M100/150 daily (got these used for ca. 30 Euro), Lamy Safari, Wing Sung 3008 (demonstrators), Pilot Petit and Pilot Kaküno.

 

If I can get her into them as much as I am (bad grandma) then I can see any number of these in her possession. I will probably give her one of my Preras and I have a 130 and Safari I don't use. Right now, I'm just looking for that flashy pen.

 

 

You would be advised to frequent the Chinese fountain pen forum if you want to look for exciting affordable but not the childish funky type of decent fountain pen in the said price range .. as of this moment the Mfr(s) over there are the one who really provide ( such ).

 

Will do. Thank you

[KCat]

Hi KCat,

 

Since you've been battling depression, a fun arts project with your granddaughter might be just the ticket.

This way, you can make your own swirly pens that will be ONE OF A KIND... and it would be a great way to spend some "fun time" with your granddaughter. 👍 They use white, yellow and red oil paints, but I would imagine you could use whatever colors you like; as long as they're OIL-based paints.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Sean

 

Truly an excellent idea.

 

Consider a vintage all metal ring/ribbon pen.  Those lady-sized pens would be perfect for her young hands, and the all metal ones pack a wallop of style. The ones made by WAHL frequently sell for about 50 bucks, and usually have really nice flexy nibs.  This way, you also introduce her into the beauty of some of the Vintage pens.  

 

Hm. Flexy, eh? I'd probably be selfish and keep that.

 

Have a look at Online pens

 

https://www.online-pen.de/en/home.html

 

German made, German quality, school pens, nice designs. Might be an alternative worth considering.

 

Nice ones there. Thank you.

 

Platinum Plaisir is lightweight, fits a small hand, in nifty bright colors too..mine was !Ruby! red.

Also sending a ((hug)), gentle suggestion of “Norman The Button” book.  Norman’s simple imaginative  2” red plastic perspective reasonings around life changes are surprisingly profound for all ages.

 

Thank you for both suggestions. I am very tired.

 

I bought one of these for my daughter. It's lightweight and writes brilliantly. I'm sure many other junior pens share this feature, but the fact that the nib is easily replaceable is a huge bonus. Because your munchkin WILL drop it nib down at least once.

 

 

Had not considered the nib issue. Indeed. Heck, I've done this. Once. (shudder, that poor VP)

 

 

hmm... lots of suggestion but if you need to go pretty like the Grand Place at a fraction of the price your best bet is very likely one of the suggested PenBBS or Moonman.

Moonman m600s

 

 

there is a very nice purplish one on offer at around $24

 

check also the M100, slightly smaller for girly hands

 

PS the M600s is a lightweight pen and well balanced too, it's the size of a Parker Centennial (being an unashamed copy...) the nib may need your attention before handing it to your grand-daughter as comparison with the Pelikan nib may be unforgiving

 

That girl loves purple. That's pretty.

 

no, come on, a Reform 1745 for a 7 year old that's in love with a Grand Place?

She'll throw it at you... (no offence, the 1745 is a great pen, but you can't say it's pretty, flashy, and would fascinate a 7 year old girl).

 

what about a Moonman M800 (you said price is not an issue, this is about $50, far less than a Grand Place...) swirly enough?

 

 

Swirly enough. Well, I don't mind spending a little. I don't want to go nuts. She's smart, but still seven.

[KCat]

Perhaps ‘starter pens’ are actually designed - deliberately intended - to be fugly?

 

Making them clunky-looking means that an adult who gifts the pen to a child won’t feel as horrified at the ‘waste’ if the child loses the pen, or uses it to poke sticks around in a fire, or digs in the garden with it, etc

 

Also, restricting beautiful pens to the more ‘grown-up’ market enables a parent to say to their children ‘you can have the pretty pen once you’ve learned to write beautifully’ and/or ‘once you’ve proven that you can look after a pen properly’.

 

And, from the Marketing Department’s POV, it encourages/trains us from an early age to Keep On Chasing The Shiny, and to buy ever-more-expensive pens.

E.g. I find that I am currently Coveting an 800-series Pelikan Souverän. Those cost over £300 if one is buying new.

I can only imagine the horrified reaction of my Yorkshire ancestors if I were to tell them that I was thinking of spending that kind of money on a mere pen

 

Ha. No doubt. And let's face it, kids generally like cubes and spheres and color-blocking and such.

 

This may, in fact, be the pen that sits and waits for Gramma visits while the "clunky" pen gets used when Gram isn't there. Who knows? There are things like that in the house because there is also my 3 y.o. grandson to consider who is Mr. Destructo Boy. Things like markers are not allowed when he's around. He colored on Mom's white furniture last year. Not a good day for Mom. So any FP, child's or grown-up's, would probably look like a good throwing dart to him.

 

I can't believe I let my spousal unit buy an M600 for me a couple of years ago for a ridiculous amount. I justified it as supporting our local B&M pen store but OY! Never again. So, yeah, I feel your pain. They sure are great pens, though.

 

My two cities pens were purchased before Pelikan went hog wild with prices. Now, I wish to heck I'd bought more M600s back then. What a deal! $200 for an M600. Chump change. (I'm getting side tracked and I haven't even taken my meds for the night).

[KCat]

Many of my FPR pens, including the Himalayas, needed a bit of tweaking and/or tinkering to become stellar, which I regard as not unusual. I don't cycle through my pens near so much as I used to, so right now there are some that aren't there yet. But Kevin's customer service is truly stellar, and he will absolutely go at least a couple extra miles to correct any issues he becomes aware of.

 

Additionally, he offers quite an array of nibs -- both #6 and #5.5 in XF, F, and M; there's a small premium for B, 1.0mm stub, and flex, and a bigger one for Ultra Flex (one of his flex nibs with the Ease My Flex mod). Several reviews on his site claim his regular flex nibs are nicer than Noodler's flex nibs, and for flexy fans, his ultra flex is probably one of the easiest entries into that world. And he offers most (if not all) in both steel and gold, though his gold nibs start at 109USD, a la carte.

 

Me, I'm not into flex. I like stubs. Kevin's stubs have a fairly small aspect ratio. I'd say that a narrow stroke is around half as wide as a wide one, and any spread or feathering will obscure even that difference. I barely notice any line variation writing with my usual inks on my usual low-budget salvage copy paper.

 

Most of his pens are of the same sort of somewhat stinky vegetal resin that Noodler's uses. A brief application of diluted bleach is probably the best way to mitigate the smell, if it's overwhelming. The fillers on the acrylic Himalaya pens are also vegetal resin. I'd say that if you're looking for pretty, swirly plastic, the Himalaya V1 is your entry point. I am weird enough to prefer the smaller nibs and the syringe filler to the #6 nib and internal piston filler, though I do think that the #6 nib leads to a better section profile.

 

Thanks for the info. I've never seen these before.

[inkstainedruth]

In all the discussions about pens in this topic, I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the older (1980s) era Pelikanos. I picked up one a couple of years ago at the Baltimore-Washington Pen Show -- it might be a P456 -- and while you might not get one for as inexpensively as I did (five bucks US) they come in different colors, and the nib on mine, while a nail, is very smooth. While it's a "kids' pen" an adult with smaller hands would not have a problem writing with it. Mine is a bright blue (not sure what all the colors are but I did a quick Google image search just now and found them in red, yellow and green for sure, as well as the blue). They're c/c pens that take international standard cartridges (I got a Pelikan converter for mine).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: And while it does have a triangular-style grip (although not as pronounced as on a Lamy Safari) it is by NO means "fugly"....

Edited March 3, 2020 by inkstainedruth

[pajaro]

In all the discussions about pens in this topic, I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the older (1980s) era Pelikanos. I picked up one a couple of years ago at the Baltimore-Washington Pen Show -- it might be a P456 -- and while you might not get one for as inexpensively as I did (five bucks US) they come in different colors, and the nib on mine, while a nail, is very smooth. While it's a "kids' pen" an adult with smaller hands would not have a problem writing with it. Mine is a bright blue (not sure what all the colors are but I did a quick Google image search just now and found them in red, yellow and green for sure, as well as the blue). They're c/c pens that take international standard cartridges (I got a Pelikan converter for mine).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: And while it does have a triangular-style grip (although not as pronounced as on a Lamy Safari) it is by NO means "fugly"....

 

Yes, I have one of those pens, and they are good pens and not unattractive. Just the thing to win future customers.

[Mercian]

 

There are things like that in the house because there is also my 3 y.o. grandson to consider who is Mr. Destructo Boy. Things like markers are not allowed when he's around. He colored on Mom's white furniture last year. Not a good day for Mom. So any FP, child's or grown-up's, would probably look like a good throwing dart to him.

That is (afaik) the normal, usual, ‘S.O.P’ for every male child of that age. Each and every one of us is, as you so rightly say, ‘Mr. Destructo Boy’.

 

E.g. at around that age I found my mum’s lipstick and then enjoyed using it to draw a swirly trail of colourful grease all over the walls and the furniture and the soft furnishings and the carpet in my parents’ bedroom.

On another day I found her Parker “51”, and the (1950s/60s vintage) Conway Stewart lever-fillers in beautiful swirly-burgundy-and-pink plastic that belonged to her and to my dad.

In playing with the Pretty Things I managed to bend the shiny pointy gold nib on one of the CS pens rather badly, after which all the pens got Put Away In A Safe Place.

I also used to wake up as soon as it became daylight and, in the summers at least, used to go downstairs, open the front door, and wander off in to the garden and nearby areas of the village; causing much Terror to my exhausted mother, and the installation of a chain and a new lock higher up on the front door.

 

Thus, by the time that my brother reached the same age, my parents had learned the lesson that male human children are Wolf Cubs, who learn to understand things using the principle of testing them to destruction.

Which is, of course, nobbut a hi-falutin way of saying that whenever we see something that piques our interest, we pick it up and play with it until it we break it

 

Leaving us without Adult Supervision - even for a moment - presents a major hazard to every thing that we can access in our immediate environment, including all of our parents’ possessions.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Mercian