Montblanc 149

[TheNobleSavage]

That sounds like a good idea but I prefer people writing the reviews. I think that is a more accurate way finding out the persons overall experience with fountain pens in general. With a poll, there is no accountability IMO.

 

TNS

[dfatouros]

  The Noble Savage said:

OK, I did a bit of research on the FPN review section and I came up with the following interesting results. I am not going to give you anything but the facts of my findings. So you can come up with your own conclusions. I would like to actually sit down and look at all of the reviews that are posted here and break then down in Overall Positve reviews, Negative Reviews and Mixed Reviews. When I say Positive, Negative or Mixed, it has nothing to do with the tone of the review by the reviewer but it has to do with overall satisfaction with the particular fountain pen model by the Reviewer. This DOES NOT have details with initial problems that have or have not been fixed. This is just the overall impression of the pen and if they are satisfied with it.

 

Montblanc Fountain Pens

 

15 total Reviews (on all MB Models)

14- Overall positive reviews

1- Overall Negative review

 

Lets Break it down further:

Montblanc 149 pen reviews

5- Overall Positive reviews

1- Overall Negative reviews

 

Ok, Another Comparison is with

 

Pelikan Fountain Pens

 

43 Total Pen Reviews

41- Overall Positive Reviews

1- Overall Negatve Review

1- Overall Mixed Review

 

The Negative Review is with the Pelikan P360 Model

The Mixed Review is with the Pelikan L-65 (Level 65) Model

 

 

I will also post this in the FPN Writing Instruments Forum

 

Enjoy

 

TNS

 

 

 

First of all, let me say as a long time lurker, how much I enjoy TNS's reviews and his writings. Massive kudos to The truly Noble Savage. And BTW this is a solid and informative piece of research.

 

Secondly something that rather bugs me about the reviews in general, is the in-built bias of any person writing the review. If you have paid several hundred of your choice of hard earned currency chances are that you are going to like it. And that is the nice case where people write out of a love and appreciation of fountain pens, and wanting to share their experience. I say again, I have huge respect for anyone who has given their time to write a review and share their opinions, but I am not sure what can be done about a bias.

 

The nasty case of bias, is where there is money involved. In a magazine for example, the main revenue may be from pen company advertisements that may be withheld if a negative review is published. Again, human nature.

 

I am not sure what I am trying to say. I suppose that I mean that we should read the reviews, thank the FPN reviewers, keep an open mind and try things out ourselves.

 

Finally, my MB149 that I got handed down from my dad (bought in 1988) is not a stellar performer: it skips really badly at the start, and has been for service twice... Being charitable I assign that to the obliqueness (~30 - 45 degrees) with which my dad may have written as it is slightly better at that angle. Quite disappointing for such an expensive pen. Any thoughts?

[Sakura]

  dfatouros said:

Secondly something that rather bugs me about the reviews in general, is the in-built bias of any person writing the review. If you have paid several hundred of your choice of hard earned currency chances are that you are going to like it. And that is the nice case where people write out of a love and appreciation of fountain pens, and wanting to share their experience. I say again, I have huge respect for anyone who has given their time to write a review and share their opinions, but I am not sure what can be done about a bias.

 

The nasty case of bias, is where there is money involved. In a magazine for example, the main revenue may be from pen company advertisements that may be withheld if a negative review is published. Again, human nature.

 

I am not sure what I am trying to say. I suppose that I mean that we should read the reviews, thank the FPN reviewers, keep an open mind and try things out ourselves.

 

Finally, my MB149 that I got handed down from my dad (bought in 1988) is not a stellar performer: it skips really badly at the start, and has been for service twice... Being charitable I assign that to the obliqueness (~30 - 45 degrees) with which my dad may have written as it is slightly better at that angle. Quite disappointing for such an expensive pen. Any thoughts?

I appreciate the point made here.

I assume the bias as a given. Reviews are helpful to me in a relative sort of way, i.e., if the reviewer complains a pen was too thick, I'll probably like it because I like thick pens. Ever go to a movie that was reviewed as a total flop, and liked it anyway? Same thing. The best thing a reviewer could do is thoroughly explain why he liked or disliked the various aspects, so you can judge for yourself. Multiple reviews on the same pen is all the more useful for this reason. When I bought my Waterman, I sought out several opinions, and some of them were negative.

 

To the best of my knowledge, my MB is a 149. It's strange that I don't know...please understand that I got it as a gift, at a time when I knew little about FPs, and it's been packed away for a long time. It worked wonderfully until I stupidly let ink in it for far too long. If it doesn't work properly after I get it cleaned out, I will chalk it up to my carelessness, not Montblanc. I will admit I hesitate to send it to Montblanc for the cleaning, because of negative feedback in this forum. Must I send it to them, or will someone else attend to it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lloyd]

  The Noble Savage said:

That sounds like a good idea but I prefer people writing the reviews. I think that is a more accurate way finding out the persons overall experience with fountain pens in general. With a poll, there is no accountability IMO.

 

TNS

I'm not suggesting doing away with the reviews. I just think that a survey such as the one I proposed would get more individuals involved and give us all a better sense of this group's MB & Pel experiences. As dfatouros points out, the reviews come with significant biases partially due to the fact that they are usually written shortly after the user receives the pen. Also, there are usually far fewer reviews of pen X than users of pen X.

Edited August 10, 2007 by Lloyd

[meanwhile]

 

  dfatouros said:

Secondly something that rather bugs me about the reviews in general, is the in-built bias of any person writing the review. If you have paid several hundred of your choice of hard earned currency chances are that you are going to like it.

 

Several more things have to be added to this:

 

- The more someone pays, the more they will be convinced that they got an item with special qualities - regardless how it performs

 

- The more an object is seen as being prestigious, the more it will be seen as performing well in other ways - especially among people who buy objects as status symbols

 

- The people most likely to protest loudly are those who have invested substantially in a belief, but doubt its truth. Hence Parker 51 owners are likely to be merely amused if you criticize the pen. I think the Pelikan Go might be the best pen ever made, but I'm damned if I can imagine getting excited about the issue.

 

All these things are basic marketing psychology and used all the time. I recommend Cialdini's books for an insight:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cialdini

 

 

[meanwhile]

  Lloyd said:

  The Noble Savage said:

That sounds like a good idea but I prefer people writing the reviews. I think that is a more accurate way finding out the persons overall experience with fountain pens in general. With a poll, there is no accountability IMO.

 

TNS

I'm not suggesting doing away with the reviews. I just think that a survey such as the one I proposed would get more individuals involved and give us all a better sense of this group's MB & Pel experiences. Also, as dfatouros points out, the reviews come with significant biases. Also, there are usually far fewer reviews of pen X than users of pen X.

 

This assumes that MB and Pel owners will behave the same way in a survey. For reasons that my post immediately above makes clear, I doubt this. Most MB owners have bought a Status Stick and are deeply invested in it. A Pel is just a pen.

Edited August 10, 2007 by meanwhile

[AndyHayes]

  dfatouros said:

First of all, let me say as a long time lurker, how much I enjoy TNS's reviews and his writings. Massive kudos to The truly Noble Savage. And BTW this is a solid and informative piece of research.

 

Secondly something that rather bugs me about the reviews in general, is the in-built bias of any person writing the review. If you have paid several hundred of your choice of hard earned currency chances are that you are going to like it. And that is the nice case where people write out of a love and appreciation of fountain pens, and wanting to share their experience. I say again, I have huge respect for anyone who has given their time to write a review and share their opinions, but I am not sure what can be done about a bias.......snip

 

Yes there is a lot of sense here. Reviews are written very soon after buying the pen, but a follow-up seems rare. I am guilty of both of these. Giving marks of x out of x doesn't mean a great deal as it is all based on opinion and experience, but heavily on the opinion. All of the review is based on opinion and experience, but I have to say that it is where I spend most of my forum time.

 

I recently wrote a review of the Sailor Sapporo Mini and it wasn't the greatest review that the pen has ever had, but no-one else had reviewed it. What was interesting was the owners of this pen, who could have presumably written a review, came dashing out of the woodwork to argue against my review - brilliant :clap1: loads of people putting across their counter-opinion. That is exactly what is needed, a little debate. I enjoy the odd hard hitting and scathing review and you can be sure that if I get a poor pen I shall be telling you all, opinion or otherwise!!

[Lloyd]

  meanwhile said:

  Lloyd said:

  The Noble Savage said:

That sounds like a good idea but I prefer people writing the reviews. I think that is a more accurate way finding out the persons overall experience with fountain pens in general. With a poll, there is no accountability IMO.

 

TNS

I'm not suggesting doing away with the reviews. I just think that a survey such as the one I proposed would get more individuals involved and give us all a better sense of this group's MB & Pel experiences. Also, as dfatouros points out, the reviews come with significant biases. Also, there are usually far fewer reviews of pen X than users of pen X.

 

This assumes that MB and Pel owners will behave the same way in a survey. For reasons that my post immediately above makes clear, I doubt this. Most MB owners have bought a Status Stick and are deeply invested in it. A Pel is just a pen.

Clearly, any type of polling is fraught with difficulties. However, the succinctity of my proposed poll might lead to both an increased volume of and an increased honesty in people's experiences. Most have little to lose by listing which (new) models they've owned and if they were defective or not.

 

By the way, most of the Pelikan line-up cost more than $100; hardly the price of "just a pen" to most of us.

[Sakura]

  AndyHayes said:

Yes there is a lot of sense here. Reviews are written very soon after buying the pen, but a follow-up seems rare. I am guilty of both of these. Giving marks of x out of x doesn't mean a great deal as it is all based on opinion and experience, but heavily on the opinion. All of the review is based on opinion and experience, but I have to say that it is where I spend most of my forum time.

 

I recently wrote a review of the Sailor Sapporo Mini and it wasn't the greatest review that the pen has ever had, but no-one else had reviewed it. What was interesting was the owners of this pen, who could have presumably written a review, came dashing out of the woodwork to argue against my review - brilliant :clap1: loads of people putting across their counter-opinion. That is exactly what is needed, a little debate. I enjoy the odd hard hitting and scathing review and you can be sure that if I get a poor pen I shall be telling you all, opinion or otherwise!!

This is the thing -- the reviewers are writing their reviews during the honeymoon period. It's exactly why I didn't post a review on my Carène yet, I felt to be fair I had to abuse it for a time first. Couldn't there be some sort of guideline to give a three-month or even six-month review, at least as a followup if not a first?

 

More useful than the reviews to me are the moments where members say "I've used my [insert pen name] for nine years of heavy note-taking, and I dropped it in my uncle's log cabin once, and it never gave me a problem..."

 

Unfortunately, this type of "review" isn't searchable, you just have to hang out on FPN constantly and have no life like I do.

 

 

[Lloyd]

The "honeymoon period" is another reason I was suggesting a poll. Most reviews are overly positive due to the initial joy one has upon receipt of a new toy.

[meanwhile]

  Lloyd said:

  Quote

...Most MB owners have bought a Status Stick and are deeply invested in it. A Pel is just a pen.

 

...By the way, most of the Pelikan line-up cost more than $100; hardly the price of "just a pen" to most of us.

 

An M800 might cost $300, but it is still bought as a pen An expensive pen is still a just a pen - a pen with a lot to prove. M800 = expensive pen. 149 = status stick. And yes, I know some people buy 149s as pens. But, honestly, I don't think many do.

 

[Lloyd]

  meanwhile said:

An M800 might cost $300, but it is still bought as a pen An expensive pen is still a just a pen - a pen with a lot to prove. M800 = expensive pen. 149 = status stick. And yes, I know some people buy 149s as pens. But, honestly, I don't think many do.

As we're primarily focused on FPN members' experiences, I'd wager that few here buy MB's for status. A Pel 800 is in league with a MB146. A Pel 1000 is closer to the 149 and, to me, no less nor more of a status symbol.

[Ronin]

  Lloyd said:

  meanwhile said:

An M800 might cost $300, but it is still bought as a pen An expensive pen is still a just a pen - a pen with a lot to prove. M800 = expensive pen. 149 = status stick. And yes, I know some people buy 149s as pens. But, honestly, I don't think many do.

As we're primarily focused on FPN members' experiences, I'd wager that few here buy MB's for status. A Pel 800 is in league with a MB146. A Pel 1000 is closer to the 149 and, to me, no less nor more of a status symbol.

 

Mont Blancs are bought for status. A Pelikan 1000 isn't. My brother collects Mont Blancs pelikans and did'nt know that Pelikans made pens like the 800/1000! Pelikans are bought by people who have a bit more knowledge than most.

Ronin.

[OboeJuan]

  Ronin said:

Mont Blancs are bought for status. A Pelikan 1000 isn't. My brother collects Mont Blancs pelikans and did'nt know that Pelikans made pens like the 800/1000! Pelikans are bought by people who have a bit more knowledge than most.

Ronin.

 

 

I suspect that it is this kind of blanket statement that makes people testy about this subject. As I have mentioned before (many others have, too) the type of people who buy the things so other people will go "Ooooh, he/she is so cool" probably aren't going to shell out an extra 300 bucks so that the star is on a fountain pen rather than a ballpoint, so they are unlikely to be members here.

 

Right after I joined I got in trouble because I got mad at being labeled (essentially) a superficial wannabe because I love my MB. I said something quite nasty and regretted it, but I still feel like throwing in the towel and never coming here again everytime I see one of those blanket statements. I also love my Caran d'Ache and my Pilot and my Sheaffer Targa. I suspect that so does everyone on here who also has a MB (they don't love my pens, but you get the point).

 

I have a hard time believing that the superficial wannabes have fountain pens as their hobbies and I doubt very much that those people would even get on the internet looking for a place to discuss their pens, nor that they would hang around much after the first time they read about how superficial they are. It doesn't feel particularly good.

 

Before I get in trouble again, of course it is your right to make blanket statements insulting fellow FPN members. I am in no way saying you can't. I just have a different opinion.

[Ray]

  OboeJuan said:

I suspect that it is this kind of blanket statement that makes people testy about this subject. As I have mentioned before (many others have, too) the type of people who buy the things so other people will go "Ooooh, he/she is so cool" probably aren't going to shell out an extra 300 bucks so that the star is on a fountain pen rather than a ballpoint, so they are unlikely to be members here.

 

Right after I joined I got in trouble because I got mad at being labeled (essentially) a superficial wannabe because I love my MB. I said something quite nasty and regretted it, but I still feel like throwing in the towel and never coming here again everytime I see one of those blanket statements. I also love my Caran d'Ache and my Pilot and my Sheaffer Targa. I suspect that so does everyone on here who also has a MB (they don't love my pens, but you get the point).

 

I have a hard time believing that the superficial wannabes have fountain pens as their hobbies and I doubt very much that those people would even get on the internet looking for a place to discuss their pens, nor that they would hang around much after the first time they read about how superficial they are. It doesn't feel particularly good.

 

Before I get in trouble again, of course it is your right to make blanket statements insulting fellow FPN members. I am in no way saying you can't. I just have a different opinion.

 

My feelings precisely.

 

Ray

[Sakura]

  OboeJuan said:

I suspect that it is this kind of blanket statement that makes people testy about this subject. As I have mentioned before (many others have, too) the type of people who buy the things so other people will go "Ooooh, he/she is so cool" probably aren't going to shell out an extra 300 bucks so that the star is on a fountain pen rather than a ballpoint, so they are unlikely to be members here.

 

 

 

 

I have a hard time believing that the superficial wannabes have fountain pens as their hobbies and I doubt very much that those people would even get on the internet looking for a place to discuss their pens, nor that they would hang around much after the first time they read about how superficial they are. It doesn't feel particularly good.

Well said, OboeJuan. :clap1:

I was blindsided by the MB hate after joining as well, now I'm made to feel like I must tread carefully. Isn't that called bullying? :hmm1:

[AndyHayes]

I have never owned an MB. I have written with a 147 (?) once and I was suprised at how light it was.

 

I have owned many motorbikes in the past from a Suzuki GP125 to a Honda Goldwing 1500.

 

I have never owned a Harley Davidson or a Mont Blanc pen and it is for the reputation that people who have those items have in the UK. As far as Harleys are concerned, in the UK they tend to be ridden by Managing Directors and Hells Angels, and if there is one thing that I would not want to be mistaken for it's a Managing Director!

 

So brand status can work in reverse, and people like me, who are seen as having some pen expertise (it's not my fault!), when asked at work, would rather recommend Pelikans than MBs because they seem to be rarely bought for status.

 

And by the way, I also have problems with vanity plates (personalised registration plates). There can be few ways to better advertise the wayone feels so insignificant about oneself!

Edited August 10, 2007 by AndyHayes

[OboeJuan]

Thanks, Ray and Sakura.

[LDF]

  meanwhile said:

  Lloyd said:

  Quote

...Most MB owners have bought a Status Stick and are deeply invested in it. A Pel is just a pen.

 

...By the way, most of the Pelikan line-up cost more than $100; hardly the price of "just a pen" to most of us.

 

An M800 might cost $300, but it is still bought as a pen An expensive pen is still a just a pen - a pen with a lot to prove. M800 = expensive pen. 149 = status stick. And yes, I know some people buy 149s as pens. But, honestly, I don't think many do.

 

Wait a minute, $300 for a PEN? That is a STATUS STICK! And what's with that metal trim near the nib? What's its function besides a corrosion magnet? It's a purely decorative touch to sparkle as pocket jewelry. Just a pen? Pah! You status seeker! :roflmho:

 

Edit to add: Don't chase the stork!

Edited August 11, 2007 by LDF

[TheNobleSavage]

  meanwhile said:

  dfatouros said:

Secondly something that rather bugs me about the reviews in general, is the in-built bias of any person writing the review. If you have paid several hundred of your choice of hard earned currency chances are that you are going to like it.

 

Several more things have to be added to this:

 

- The more someone pays, the more they will be convinced that they got an item with special qualities - regardless how it performs

 

- The more an object is seen as being prestigious, the more it will be seen as performing well in other ways - especially among people who buy objects as status symbols

 

- The people most likely to protest loudly are those who have invested substantially in a belief, but doubt its truth. Hence Parker 51 owners are likely to be merely amused if you criticize the pen. I think the Pelikan Go might be the best pen ever made, but I'm damned if I can imagine getting excited about the issue.

 

All these things are basic marketing psychology and used all the time. I recommend Cialdini's books for an insight:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cialdini

 

 

 

 

That is just your opinion!!! Secondly I dont trust everything on Wikipedia, information there is not verified as 100% FACT!!!

 

Your information is well, extremely debatable!!! So I would hardly consider placing a wager on the above opinion!!!! Thanks anyways!!!

 

TNS

Edited August 11, 2007 by The Noble Savage