Montblanc 149

[Lloyd]

  Ronin said:

That's fine,but my question remains why is it we don't receive,for example, many Waterman,Caran D'ache or Pelikan pens for repair? We do sell Montergrappa pens but so far none back for repair. Maybe the people who buy MB are very clumsy with them!

 

Ronin.

I can't speak for Waterman&Caran D'ache but those that buy Pels might deal directly with Chartpac.

[georges zaslavsky]

  Ronin said:

That's fine,but my question remains why is it we don't receive,for example, many Waterman,Caran D'ache or Pelikan pens for repair? We do sell Montergrappa pens but so far none back for repair. Maybe the people who buy MB are very clumsy with them!

Ronin.

Two other possible explanations. Waterman and Caran d'ache don't manufacture piston fountain pens so that is why you don't see them in repair. A cartridge converter pen has no internal mechanism unlike a button, vacumatic or piston filler.

I have a 1987 pelikan m800 that I bought in used condition, it is a delightful writer. Pelikan being judged more solid than Montblanc.

I have seen a lot of people who were not able to fill a piston fountain pen correctly or giving far too much pressure on the nib when writing. For the note, I never had any single leaking problem with my 1965 mb 146 which I was offered by my uncle for last christmas same comment with my 1966 and 1977 mb 149s and my 1985 mb146. The ink I use is the traditional waterman black. I always take care of my pens so they work flawlessly.

[georges zaslavsky]

  MichaelD said:

I have been monitoring this interesting conversation.

I have a question that maybe someone with more experience or who works in a pen shop may help answer.

Do you think we seem to here about Montblanc pens having to be returned for repairs because Montblanc pens sell a much higher percentage of the fountain pen market?

I ask because I have two friends who own Montblanc pens; if I were to ask if they have heard of Pelikan or Sailor or Pilot fountain pens, I don't think that they would know much, if anything, about these brands.

Before this forum I did not know any of these companies made fountain pens, even though I knew of Montblanc.

And if I were to go to a pen store, I would think many salepersons would push a higher priced good, e g Montblanc, than a lower priced one.

Perhaps people buy more Montblanc pens because of brand recognition and reputation? If more Montblanc pens are sold, then we would hear more of their quality control problems?

 

I'm curious whether I might be too greatly influenced from attending business school?

 

Michael

Not all MB owners are the same. There are plenty people on fpn who own MBs and other brands. Of course there are those who only swear by one brand and then just focus on it. If Montblanc is more widely known it is because it has a far bigger distribution than Sailor and Pilot. You can make the same parallel with a Rolex and a Grand Seiko. You will find more retailers who sell the Rolex than the Grand Seiko. So yes, people buy MB like they buy Rolex bceause of the strong brand reputation and recognition and because its vintage items never decrease in value. All is the matter of law of supply and demand. The quality controls problems are more a problem inside the manufacturing plant than something else.

 

[RedRob]

In an online interview (can't trace it) Cristophe Artaux, the new head of Omas under LVMH, mentioned that MB had over 51% of the FP sales worldwide and that Omas was aiming a part of this huge market share (good luck). This says a lot about MB's success as a brand. Jonathan Steinberg I think got it right in his book Fountain Pens Their History and Art. To compete with the cheap ballpoints MB aimed at the luxury market with nice products and expensive marketing, instead of aiming at the school market with cheaper pens and marketing. Sales rewarded MB and punished the others. The others seem to catch up in the luxury market now, but it smacks of too little too late.

 

I do have a very weak spot for MB designs - particularly some of their Writer's series - which I find bold and interesting. I don't know other brands that are as creative in FP design. Anyhow, out of the MBs my wife and I own, only one has not needed at least a trip to Germany:

 

Fitzgerald: 4 trips for OB nib exchange, poor ink flow which took two trips to fix, cap not posting securely on barrell which also required two trips, shattered cap lip then shattered snowflake. I couldn't agree more with the brittleness of their resin. The cracks developed from falls of the posted cap on the table I was writing on! Is that a 6 inch fall?

 

Christie: 3 trips. One for an OBB nib change (yes they can do that even 12 years after issuing the pen), the second trip for skipping and the third for a crack that developed in the threads spontaneously after capping the pen. I think Frank Dubiel may have been right about those unstable microscopic cracks. The ink flow was not corrected even after the third trip (sounds like Lloyd) so I ended up sending the pen to John Mottishaw. It has now impeccable ink flow - actually the only pen that I own which starts right away after being left uncapped for over 24 hours.

 

Proust: 1 trip to change the nib for an OB (yes they can still do that), which came back very poorly shaped. Not two OBs from MB are shaped alike. I think that they may be grinded on the spot by their craftsmen, and this one didn't spend much time on the job. The OB on the Proust had squared off ends, which did nothing for line width variation or crispness, but did quite a bit for scratchiness. Richard Binder has this pen now in his work queue for a nib regring.

 

Garbo: On its first trip to Germany as I write this. It had a horribly toothy fine nib with ink flow starting AFTER the first downstroke. Irritating. It is now on its way to Germany for an OM nib exchange and ink flow correction - hopefully.

 

Woolf: On its first trip. I do like medium nibs, but this one was beyond toothy and had such heavy ink flow that ink would sometimes seep on to the following piece of paper. I had previously tried three other Woolf nibs in stores and all had excessive ink flows, sizes running one step above what was written and somewhat toothy nibs. It is hard to resist the temptation of thinking that maybe excessive ink flow is supposed to make up for rough nibs.

 

Poe: This one is not going to Germany. No. It has a broad nib that is glassy smooth, responsive (flexy) and writes like a stub. Almost a dream, if it were not for its excessive ink flow which I somehow manage to control with some PR DC show 2003 blue - which does clog other fountain pens after the 3rd filling. I'm not able to use my favorite ink Waterman blue black in this pen, but I'm so happy with the nib I don't want to risk changing it.

 

Which brings me to the other reason for keeping on buying MB pens, besides their design and despite their sub par quality: the nibs. The OB nib on the Fitzgerald, the B nib on the Proust and my uncle's OM nib on his Christie are about the nicest non-modified contemporary nibs that I've written with. (And I did try my share of Omases, Sheaffers, Pelikans, Tibaldis and Viscontis and a superb Danitrio).

 

MB nibs are addictive for me. There's no going elswhere except vintage, Binder or Mottishaw for me. It does require patience and a post office not far from home though. I've gotten to know Olivia at Montblanc Canada service dept quite well. It's like getting to know your mechanic for one of those 80s Jaguar horror stories.

[docsamson]

Not a Mont Blanc fan nor a distractor. Just wanted to say fantastic review! Better that most professional ones.

[meanwhile]

  docsamson said:

Not a Mont Blanc fan nor a distractor. Just wanted to say fantastic review! Better that most professional ones.

 

Thanks! I think Lloyd's contribution added a lot. MB's can be excellent, they are over priced (but possibly no more so than Parker Duofolds and Conway Stewarts), quality can be awful but can probably be fixed if you persist - so do. And the pens probably are unusually delicate, which you can choose to live with.

[meanwhile]

  georges zaslavsky said:

1)You should seriously quit making assumptions on someone who is way longer than you in the business. He is an official pilot and namiki distributor since the 50's. He has sold 823s two years ago.

 

Then what you say makes even less sense. Because according to you, previously, this guy showed you a supposed 823 and it was the wrong pen.

 

 

  Quote

And while we are at it perhaps the stylophile review of the 823 was so realistic and unbiased? Lies.

 

It was certainly unbiased - the 823 isn't being sold in the West, so why would Pilot attempt to influence the review?

 

  Quote

Pull out very strongly the plunger fill and there are possibilities your 823 will have probs.

 

You obviously missed the recent thread about the ebay seller who destroyed his 149.

 

  Quote

Not always what is cheaper is better. A piston filling system is far more secure and reliable than a plunger filler.

 

Given what we know, a 149 probably costs less to make than an 823.

 

  Quote

The 823 most talked on line? On fpn, yes but not everywhere else.

 

Yes, but we are on fpn. And we hear about MB problems all the time - its the star of the Crappiest Ever Expensive Pen thread. But the 823? No.

 

  Quote

2)And your claims about knowing how much MBs are faulty are void because you are not a member of MB quality control staff.

 

Yeah. Sure. Only if problems with MB's are reported here at rate 100 times higher pen than Pelikan it means nothing. Really.

 

  Quote

Just because there were some reported incidents on line that doesn't mean all MBs or many MBs are bad.

 

I didn't say that all MBs are bad. I said that they have a higher than normal failure rate, are brittle, and are over priced, for Black Plastic Tubes. Hmm. I suppose even you accept that "Precious Resin" is Black Plastic now?

 

  Quote

At the end of the assembly line each product is controlled and tested to avoid these flaws.

 

Wrong. Sailor are about the only manufacturer who do a writing test. And there is no evidence that MB do a test for micro-cracks at all - they'd have to flouroscope the pens. (?)

 

  Quote

There are no verifiable sources to back up these numbers. You think that you are more knowledgeable than other people but you are not. You are somewhat arrogant.

 

I'm hurt!

 

  Quote

3)Your statistics about how many MB fail are misleading.

 

Because...?

 

  Quote

5)Where did you get that percentage from? From some trusted source or did you just invent it yourself? With all respect I have for you, trying to pass japanese pens for flawless pens is not true and not realistic. Perhaps you were so disappointed with MB that you decided to give them a very bad image.

 

You did what "that" percentage was, so I can't give you an answer.

[meanwhile]

  MichaelD said:

I have been monitoring this interesting conversation.

I have a question that maybe someone with more experience or who works in a pen shop may help answer.

Do you think we seem to here about Montblanc pens having to be returned for repairs because Montblanc pens sell a much higher percentage of the fountain pen market?

 

No. As I said in the review, for calculating the relative frequency of bad MB's I used FPN data. And MB's are actually an unpopular pen here. While 55% of mass market fps might be MBs (or this might be their market share by value, rather than number of pens) they make up more like 5% of pens used by forumites. Pelikans and Pilots are many times more heavily used, yet get far few problem reports - there literally seems to around 1/10 - 1/100 the chance of a serious problem with these brands, and Chartpak's support for Pel is legendary.

 

[Lloyd]

Actually, the current "crappiest pen" thread is quite revealing. To my eye, MB isn't the only poor performer. However, Pilot/Namiki and Sailor are the stellar ones. Many negatives against Pels, CS, MB, Parker, several Italian brands, etc.. As a quantitative snapshot of our experiences, I hope someone takes the time to accumulate the stats on the thread.

 

Unfortunately, when I first arrived in the FP community with my wonderful MB149, I felt embarrased due to all the negative commentary. Then, I realized that ALL models have their fans and their bashers so I had to draw my own conclusions on my MB.

[Shangas]

While an interesting read, I hesitate to call this a review.

 

While there's clearly a decent amount of the reviewer's (I use the term loosely), thoughts in this piece, I think that most of the thoughts are not his own and that others were doing the thinking for him, influencing his mind and his decisions, thus making the review skewed and biased.

[meanwhile]

  Lloyd said:

Actually, the current "crappiest pen" thread is quite revealing. To my eye, MB isn't the only poor performer. However, Pilot/Namiki and Sailor are the stellar ones. Many negatives against Pels, CS, MB, Parker, several Italian brands, etc.. As a quantitative snapshot of our experiences, I hope someone takes the time to accumulate the stats on the thread.

 

You have to adjust for usage stats, but MB definitely isn't alone. Pel can be forgiven somewhat for the HUGE number of pens they have in use among members, but CS, modern Viscontis, Parkers are all pretty sinful.

 

  Quote

Unfortunately, when I first arrived in the FP community with my wonderful MB149, I felt embarrased due to all the negative commentary. Then, I realized that ALL models have their fans and their bashers so I had to draw my own conclusions on my MB.

 

Don't be embarrassed. Be realistic. A $600 pen that needs to be sent back to the manufacturer multiple times and then treated with kid gloves so it doesn't shatter is going to be considered problematic by many people.

 

[meanwhile]

  Shangas said:

While an interesting read, I hesitate to call this a review.

 

While there's clearly a decent amount of the reviewer's (I use the term loosely), thoughts in this piece, I think that most of the thoughts are not his own and that others were doing the thinking for him, influencing his mind and his decisions, thus making the review skewed and biased.

 

Well, that's an interesting point. Wrong and ill-thought out, but interesting.

 

All the stuff that is normally in a review - the subjective "feel" - I did for myself. I then, because of the controversy over MB's, did some objective research. In other words, it's a normal review, plus some other stuff, and I checked my opinions against facts - rather than eg posting in Writing Instruments, as someone did, Shangas, that MB's are worth a premium because they use gold nibs, and only gold nibs are tipped with iridium...

[meanwhile]

  georges zaslavsky said:

  Ronin said:

That's fine,but my question remains why is it we don't receive,for example, many Waterman,Caran D'ache or Pelikan pens for repair? We do sell Montergrappa pens but so far none back for repair. Maybe the people who buy MB are very clumsy with them!

Ronin.

Two other possible explanations. Waterman and Caran d'ache don't manufacture piston fountain pens so that is why you don't see them in repair. A cartridge converter pen has no internal mechanism unlike a button, vacumatic or piston filler.

 

That's why I compared MB's to Pels, which are piston fillers.

[Shangas]

  meanwhile said:

rather than eg posting in Writing Instruments, as someone did, Shangas, that MB's are worth a premium because they use gold nibs, and only gold nibs are tipped with iridium...

 

Really? Who? Anyone I know?

 

 

[meanwhile]

  Shangas said:

  meanwhile said:

rather than eg posting in Writing Instruments, as someone did, Shangas, that MB's are worth a premium because they use gold nibs, and only gold nibs are tipped with iridium...

 

Really? Who? Anyone I know?

 

I'm fairly sure it was you, Shangas. If it wasn't, you said the other equally weird thing about nibs in the same thread...

[Shangas]

No, that wasn't me.

[Lloyd]

  meanwhile said:

  Lloyd said:

Actually, the current "crappiest pen" thread is quite revealing. To my eye, MB isn't the only poor performer. However, Pilot/Namiki and Sailor are the stellar ones. Many negatives against Pels, CS, MB, Parker, several Italian brands, etc.. As a quantitative snapshot of our experiences, I hope someone takes the time to accumulate the stats on the thread.

 

You have to adjust for usage stats, but MB definitely isn't alone. Pel can be forgiven somewhat for the HUGE number of pens they have in use among members, but CS, modern Viscontis, Parkers are all pretty sinful.

Actually, even factoring in the higher usage of Pels, their initial performance appears unimpressive.

  Quote

  Quote

Unfortunately, when I first arrived in the FP community with my wonderful MB149, I felt embarrased due to all the negative commentary. Then, I realized that ALL models have their fans and their bashers so I had to draw my own conclusions on my MB.

 

Don't be embarrassed. Be realistic. A $600 pen that needs to be sent back to the manufacturer multiple times and then treated with kid gloves so it doesn't shatter is going to be considered problematic by many people.

It was my 146 that was sent back 3 times; it was then replaced with the significantly more pricey 149. If you read the "crappiest" thread, it seems others have had to send pens from other manufacturers back multiple times, too.

Many expensive pens are made of fragile materials. Pels break when they fall, too. CS casein can''t be soaked. Ebonite fades. In fact, it seems the pricier the pen, the more likely it is to be delicate.

Me, I have a marvelous & durable Pilot 743 and no one has yet to insult them.

[Ray]

  Shangas said:

While an interesting read, I hesitate to call this a review.

 

While there's clearly a decent amount of the reviewer's (I use the term loosely), thoughts in this piece, I think that most of the thoughts are not his own and that others were doing the thinking for him, influencing his mind and his decisions, thus making the review skewed and biased.

 

No, that's a review. It's subjective, which is the essence of reviews. Bias comes with the territory.

 

The views are Jonathan's own; I'm not sure there is a person who could impose a view on him.

 

Ray

[TheNobleSavage]

OK, I did a bit of research on the FPN review section and I came up with the following interesting results. I am not going to give you anything but the facts of my findings. So you can come up with your own conclusions. I would like to actually sit down and look at all of the reviews that are posted here and break then down in Overall Positve reviews, Negative Reviews and Mixed Reviews. When I say Positive, Negative or Mixed, it has nothing to do with the tone of the review by the reviewer but it has to do with overall satisfaction with the particular fountain pen model by the Reviewer. This DOES NOT have details with initial problems that have or have not been fixed. This is just the overall impression of the pen and if they are satisfied with it.

 

Montblanc Fountain Pens

 

15 total Reviews (on all MB Models)

14- Overall positive reviews

1- Overall Negative review

 

Lets Break it down further:

Montblanc 149 pen reviews

5- Overall Positive reviews

1- Overall Negative reviews

 

Ok, Another Comparison is with

 

Pelikan Fountain Pens

 

43 Total Pen Reviews

41- Overall Positive Reviews

1- Overall Negatve Review

1- Overall Mixed Review

 

The Negative Review is with the Pelikan P360 Model

The Mixed Review is with the Pelikan L-65 (Level 65) Model

 

 

I will also post this in the FPN Writing Instruments Forum

 

Enjoy

 

TNS

[Lloyd]

In addition to TNS's analyses, we should run a poll of all FPNer's that have ever owned a NEW MB (used pens may have non-QC issues). A poll should ask:

-What new MBs you've owned?

-For each one, how would you rate it?

 

A similar poll for Pels could be run for a comparison.