Recommendations For Dry Permanent Inks

[loganrah]

I've got a few pens that I find to be overly wet, and I notice that more permanent inks tend to be very wet. Unfortunately I really want to use these pens with some permanent inks. So I'm looking for recommendations for permanent inks (waterproof and light fast, I'm not worried about forgery etc.) that are relatively dry, and hopefully not too much of a hassle to clean.

I'm particularly interested in browns and teals/petrol blues, but any recommendations are welcome.

I haven't tried them yet but I've been eyeing off the De Atramentis Document inks for a while, especially because they can be blended to make colours I like. Can anyone comment on how dry/wet these are?

[LizEF]

A lot of iron galls are supposed to be dry. And Sailor Sou boku is somewhat dry.

[A Smug Dill]

There are only a few inks I can think of that would qualify as nearly waterproof, as in if you dunk the page (or the whole notebook) into a bucket of water nothing much would happen, no colour would come off the inky marks. Being water-resistant and still legible after prolonged soaking is a different matter.

 

I don't think iron-gall inks generally have a reputation for being lightfast.

 

So, I second LizEF's suggestion of Sailor souboku, which is far more waterproof than Sailor kiwaguro. Platinum Carbon Black is waterproof, but I don't think it's "dry".

 

I included nine sample vials of Sailor souboku in the Australian FPN pass-around box initially, so I hope you took one of those before passing it on.

Edited February 24, 2020 by A Smug Dill

[loganrah]

There are only a few inks I can think of that would qualify as nearly waterproof, as in if you dunk the page (or the whole notebook) into a bucket of water nothing much would happen, no colour would come off the inky marks. Being water-resistant and still legible after prolonged soaking is a different matter.

 

I don't think iron-gall inks generally have a reputation for being lightfast.

 

So, I second LizEF's suggestion of Sailor souboku, which is far more waterproof than Sailor kiwaguro. Platinum Carbon Black is waterproof, but I don't think it's "dry".

 

I included nine sample vials of Sailor souboku in the Australian FPN pass-around box initially, so I hope you took one of those before passing it on.

I guess I should be more careful with my words: when I say waterproof with respect to ink I generally just mean that I don't need to worry about accidental moisture exposure or a minor spill or two. I definitely don't expect any ink to survive full submersion. And I am interested only in legibility in this regard, if the colour goes that doesn't worry me.

 

I'm also not sure how I feel about iron-gall inks in regards to maintenance. I know the modern ones are less of a problem than older ones, but if there are safer options I'd prefer to try those out first.

 

Platinum Carbon Black is one of the ones I was thinking of that is far too wet for my taste. It is amazingly water resistant/proof, but it just gushes onto the page. I guess a secondary factor I should think about is the difference between wetness in terms of volume of ink going onto the page, and wetness in terms of propensity to spread and bleed through etc. I'm concerned with the latter rather than the former.

[silverlifter]

I'm also not sure how I feel about iron-gall inks in regards to maintenance. I know the modern ones are less of a problem than older ones, but if there are safer options I'd prefer to try those out first.

 

IG inks are "safe". Even the old school variants like ESSRI and Diamine Registrars are not going to damage your pen.

 

The whole FUD thing around them is pretty laughable when you consider how long they have been used with fountain pens.

 

Even if they do dry out in a pen, you can flush the particulate matter out with ascorbic acid (vitamin C).

 

You want a great, permanent dry ink: Diamine Registrars, Akkerman #10 Ijzer-Galotnen, R&K Salix (or Scabiosa for a different colour). If you want a wetter experience, KWZ...

[Mongoosey]

1. Sailor Souboku (Not as dry flowing as Kiwa-Guro, but it's color benefits greatly from a wetter pen)
2. R&K Salix

3. R&K Scabiosa (I'm a brown ink fan and this is one I love, especially in a wet pen I feel it requires to bring out its potential)
4. Sailor Kiwa-Guro

[Eclipse157]

+1 for iron galls, Diamine and R&K.

[aurore]

R&K IG are indeed dry but faders, Sailor pigments inks do not fade.

[A Smug Dill]

I'm also not sure how I feel about iron-gall inks in regards to maintenance. I know the modern ones are less of a problem than older ones, but if there are safer options I'd prefer to try those out first.

I'd go against the grain of what seems to be common sentiment in the forum, and say (pens that are filled with) iron-gall inks require no more maintenance than solely dye-based inks.

 

In a pen on which the cap is effective in sealing the nib and feed against ink evaporation, iron-gall inks are not any more apt to dry out when the pen is unused; and, (especially) if the pen has a "solid" gold (alloy) nib, or a modern steel nib that isn't already compromised, the acidity of the ink isn't something the user needs to combat or ward against with more diligent maintenance.

 

In a pen that is not effective in preventing ink evaporation when capped and unused, saturated dye-based inks are just as likely to cause the user grief through by clogging the feed, collector and/or inside of the filling mechanism if allowed to dry out.

 

So, to me, it's more of a question about the quality and fitness of the pen than the type of "for fountain pen use" ink with which it is filled. I have no appetite or "compassion" for pens don't seal well, whether it's modern or vintage. Even my beloved Pilot Capless raden Vanishing Point pens try my patience, and I rarely ink them these days.

[Tasmith]

+1 for iron galls, Diamine and R&K.

+1.

[Arkanabar]

You can also look into Platinum's Classic Blacks line, e.g., Classic Citrus /Cassis /Khaki /Forest /Lavender /Sepia Black, and also Platinum and Pelikan Blue-Black, are IG inks, and reputed to be rather dry and non-lubricating.

[loganrah]

Thanks for the recommendations everyone. I've ordered a couple of iron gall inks and some sailor pigment ones to try out.

 

A follow up question: is there any worry using Kodak photo flo in any of these inks? I have a big bottle and have used it in the past to make some standard dye based inks wetter with good results. And I figure it is easier to get an ink that is a bit too dry and make it wetter than to go the other way. Of course I always start with a sample vial, but I'm just wondering if there is any known problems with adding photo flo to iron gall or pigment inks.

[Eclipse157]

I'm not familiar with the chemistry of photo flo, but just to besure follow the standard safety procedure of mixing in a separate vial and let decant for a few days before filling a pen.

 

Also curious about why ask for dry inks and then making them wetter... there are permanent inks that are already wetter than iron gall inks, like Noodler's whole bulletproof assortment, and pigment inks... I have a few R&K Sketchinks, which are permanent, waterproof and pigmented, and they do flow more readily than R&K iron galls...

[gerigo]

You can also look into Platinum's Classic Blacks line, e.g., Classic Citrus /Cassis /Khaki /Forest /Lavender /Sepia Black, and also Platinum and Pelikan Blue-Black, are IG inks, and reputed to be rather dry and non-lubricating.

 

I think the concept of wet and dry is very subjective and there is not a clear criteria that we all agree on. I find Sailor's pigment inks actually quite wet.

 

I completely agree that the Platinum Classic Black line ideally dry as is the Pelikan 4001 Blue Black, which is probably the driest ink of them all.

[Mercian]

With respect to pigmented ‘document’ inks, in the reviews on here at least one reviewer stated that the De Atramentis pigmented inks were quite ‘wet’ in comparison the Rohrer & Klingner ones. R&K offer their pigmented inks in several colours.

But, you need to bear in mind that pigmented inks are also thought to require as much attention to maintenance (e.g. DON’T let them dry out in your pen!) as iron-gall inks do.

 

For less-fussy, dye-based, inks that are reputed to be ‘dry’, Pelikan’s 4001 range are ‘dry’ (because the company’s pens ‘write wet’).

They also offer inks in varying degrees of water resistance and lightfastness.

See this page on their website for details.

 

I suspect that 4001 ‘Brilliant Black’ might suit your needs, and am almost certain that 4001 Blue-Black will.
Pelikan ‘Fount India’ is what some people nowadays might call a carbon ‘nano particle’ ink. Others include Sailor Kiwa Guro and Platinum Carbon Black (which you don’t like).

 

For an extremely ’dry’ ink there’s Diamine Registrars Ink (iron-gall).
Slightly less dry is ESS Registrars Ink (iron-gall ink, defined as ‘permanent’ by the UK government, and is recommend by HMG for official use by our Registrars of births, marriages and deaths). Those are both blue-blacks. In a wet pen they cure on the page from blue to black.
Iron-gall inks are famous for not showing line-spread or feathering or bleedthrough.

Whichever of the inks recommended to you by the contributors to this thread piques your interest, I advise you to head over to the ‘Ink Reviews’ board here, and to look for as many reviews of it that you can.

Different people find different things to be ‘deal-breakers’, and different reviewers will highlight different things about the same ink. After all, only you can decide which ink comes the closest to meeting all of your personal preferences.

 

Good luck

Edited February 25, 2020 by Mercian

[loganrah]

Also curious about why ask for dry inks and then making them wetter... there are permanent inks that are already wetter than iron gall inks, like Noodler's whole bulletproof assortment, and pigment inks...

 

The reason I'm interested in this is to dial in the wetness well. I find most permanent inks (at least the ones I've tried) are too wet. So I want to try some drier permanent inks.

 

But if those inks are too dry then I figure it is easier to add wetness to those than try and make the wet inks drier.

Basically:

Too Dry + Photo Flo > Just Right

 

is easier than

Too Wet + ??? > Just Right

 

Especially since I'm not even sure what fills in the ???. Adding (distilled) water to an ink makes it drier, but it also changes the colour and other properties. Whereas the amount of photo flo you have to add is extremely small (

[Arkanabar]

IIRC, most people dilute photo-flo a LOT, and then still use tiny amounts.

[Eclipse157]

 

The reason I'm interested in this is to dial in the wetness well. I find most permanent inks (at least the ones I've tried) are too wet. So I want to try some drier permanent inks.

 

But if those inks are too dry then I figure it is easier to add wetness to those than try and make the wet inks drier.

Basically:

Too Dry + Photo Flo > Just Right

 

is easier than

Too Wet + ??? > Just Right

 

Especially since I'm not even sure what fills in the ???. Adding (distilled) water to an ink makes it drier, but it also changes the colour and other properties. Whereas the amount of photo flo you have to add is extremely small (

This actually makes a lot of sense, thank you for explaining.

[Mongoosey]

The one thing I don't like about PhotoFlo is that along with increasing wetness, it also increases line width.

 

That may not matter, but sometimes it's quite a significant addition to the line width by the time you get the ink flowing properly.

 

But it works out for some people.

 

I'm personally someone who avoids tinkering. If I have to tinker with an ink or pen besides basic nib alignment or an easy nib swap at most, I avoid it, return it, or don't use it lol.

[txomsy]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Montblanc Permanent Blue or Montblanc Blue-Black. Since you are going to use the ink on an MB pen, those should be obvious suggestions.

Edited February 28, 2020 by txomsy