Parker 51 Comeback 2020?

[WJM]

2 hours ago, TheRedBeard said:

AFAIK, there is a dedicated section on FPN to discuss all that Chinese-made rubbish...

 

 

First of all, this thread is about a new edition of Parker 51 being released. Chinese manufacturers have been making their 51 copies since the original 51 was still in production, and they got pretty good at it, so it's no suprise people make comparisons.

 

Sencondly, sorry to say that, but I find your constant referring to the Chinese pens as "rubbish" rather obnoxious.

 

 

[TheRedBeard]

17 minutes ago, WJM said:

 

..................

Sencondly, sorry to say that, but I find your constant referring to the Chinese pens as "rubbish" rather obnoxious.

 

 

 

It is my very personal opinion as I have no respect to petty thieves.

Please, read this thread starting from Page 16...

[Ferocity]

Happy Sunday Folks! It's nice to see all the great news from you all. Congratulations to everyone who just received their new pen over the weekend~! Mine is supposed to arrive Monday. I can't wait to finally write with it! 

 

Plus after reading all this "China stuff," I have to say: I just wish Parker would have the intestinal fortitude to inform us/show 100% where all the materials came from, where they were assembled(plus if done so by hand or by machine) and where each piece of the fountain pen was manufactured. The fact they claim it's made in France isn't so bad, but even so I wish it was made 100% in The United States of America 🥳

[Aysedasi]

22 minutes ago, TheRedBeard said:

 

It is my very personal opinion as I have no respect to petty thieves.

Please, read this thread starting from Page 16...

 

Yeah, but whatever your view, repeating it every third post isn't going to help much really.  Time to put it aside and move on.... 

[Aysedasi]

10 minutes ago, Ferocity said:

Happy Sunday Folks! It's nice to see all the great news from you all. Congratulations to everyone who just received their new pen over the weekend~! Mine is supposed to arrive Monday. I can't wait to finally write with it! 

 

Plus after reading all this "China stuff," I have to say: I just wish Parker would have the intestinal fortitude to inform us/show 100% where all the materials came from, where they were assembled(plus if done so by hand or by machine) and where each piece of the fountain pen was manufactured. The fact they claim it's made in France isn't so bad, but even so I wish it was made 100% in The United States of America 🥳

 

But if your pen writes fine when you get it, what the heck...... 

[Estycollector]

19 minutes ago, Aysedasi said:

 

Yeah, but whatever your view, repeating it every third post isn't going to help much really.  Time to put it aside and move on.... 

I agree

[TheRedBeard]

24 minutes ago, Aysedasi said:

 

Yeah, but whatever your view, repeating it every third post isn't going to help much really.  Time to put it aside and move on.... 

Sure, you're right, will do

 

[Estycollector]

47 minutes ago, TheRedBeard said:

 

It is my very personal opinion as I have no respect to petty thieves.

Please, read this thread starting from Page 16...

Brother RB, I’m not sure what’s got you so upset, but borrowing/stealing designs was not invented by China. 
 

You’d think Parker would have  borrowed their own design for this pen . The way I look at it, if you’re not going to use your own good ideas, don’t whine when someone else does. 

 

 

 

[corniche]

2 hours ago, welch said:

 

There has been no innovation in the fountain pen since 1960, when Parker perfected the cartridge / converter in the Parker 45. Yes, there have been changes in style, but those changes still result in the same basic fountain pen. Some companies still make the same piston fillers but in different sizes. Others make c/c pens. Some pens have more glitz. Some pens have open nibs.

 

If there has been any R&D, it has been in fountain pen ink -- though pretty much beginning and ending with the Parker Penman inks. Noodlers offers an ink that binds with paper, and many companies offer inks that vary in concentration, but so many inks are, like Penman Sapphire, a surface color with another color that glows from a layer beneath. 

 

But innovation in the pen that delivers this variety of inks?

 

Hi Welch, et al,

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that we do not need innovation as much as we need better QC and less cost cutting in the manufacturing process, (I realize with the escalated costs of labor, regulations, taxes, legalities and materials, this is probably "the hopeless dream").

 

But when I spend $300 on a pen with a STEEL nib and I have to adjust it to get it to write, (thinking Visconti); one of my father's favorite sayings comes to mind:

 

"Did you feel anything hit you in the back of your head when you bought that?... That was your change!"

 

This may be a technologically dated example, but I'm trying to illustrate a point in a whimsical way, but I wonder if Parker (and others) still bother to do this:

 

 

IMHO, the fountain pen industry need not worry so much about innovation, but simply putting out a product that writes well.

 

I would wager if they did; the vintage 51s and Esterbrooks would lose some of their luster - what keeps the vintage pens popular is the fact that they work. 

 

- Sean 

[TheRedBeard]

30 minutes ago, Estycollector said:

Brother RB, I’m not sure what’s got you so upset, but borrowing/stealing designs was not invented by China. 
 

You’d think Parker would have  borrowed their own design for this pen . The way I look at it, if you’re not going to use your own good ideas, don’t whine when someone else does. 

 

 

 

Thank you, Brother Chuck, you have a point indeed :)

 

[Aysedasi]

42 minutes ago, TheRedBeard said:

Sure, you're right, will do

 

 

Good man, you'll feel better for it, I'm sure!     Like that old story of the Judge to the lawyer in court (which I'm probably butchering, but you'll get the gist)....  'Mr. Smith, the first time you made that point, I wrote it down.  The second time you made it, I underlined it.  But if you make the same point again, I'm going to cross it out!'    

[TheRedBeard]

6 minutes ago, Aysedasi said:

 

Good man, you'll feel better for it, I'm sure!     Like that old story of the Judge to the lawyer in court (which I'm probably butchering, but you'll get the gist)....  'Mr. Smith, the first time you made that point, I wrote it down.  The second time you made it, I underlined it.  But if you make the same point again, I'm going to cross it out!'    

👍🙂

 

[como]

I thought this thread was about Parker 51, the past and present. Why are there so many discussions on knock-offs or something not related to Parker? It's like having a Louis Vuitton forum and half of the people discussing fake bags and how good or bad they are.

[Ferocity]

2 hours ago, Aysedasi said:

 

But if your pen writes fine when you get it, what the heck...... 

believe me I knowwwww where you're coming from. Truly ❤️ I agree with you... there is no reason to turn down a perfectly good object, just because of where it was made. If someone gave me this jinhao as a gift I would accept it, use it, treasure it, take good care of it and hold on to it for as long as possible, but I would never buy one with money. 

 

If someone wants to buy this new Parker 51 but all they can afford is the jinhao, then... compromise and save up for a vintage made in the USA Parker 51 from someone in America, or purchase it second hand from an American mom&pops store or online seller in The United States so your money stays in the country as much as possible. Even if, let's say you want to purchase the jinhao just for comparing; then purchase it second hand from an American mom&pops store or online seller in The United States so your money stays in the country as much as possible👍I personally would not buy it though, BECAUSE I won't feel good about it. All i want is to help America, and if my logic is not flawless as a result then so be it 💔 yes I understand that my logic for why is completely flawed on so many levels. I just don't feel good promoting Chinese made products or buying them. At the end of the day, the reason why is: I am thinking with my heart and not with my brain. I'm a very logical human, so understand that "to think with my heart," is something I rarely do. The fact of the matter is though regardless of where it's made I would much rather have few things that are well-made to last a long time as opposed to a whole bunch of things that are just going to break and contaminate the planet as waste AND IF I CAN HELP THE AMERICAN ECONOMY WHILE DOING SO THEN HE!!YEAH🤷🏻‍♂️ that's why I agree with you. If it's made in China and it's well made, then what the heck right?

 

Yes I understand this Parker 51 is made in France, but as far as I know France is respectful to the America economy ❤️I want to help the economy of America as much as possible and buying Chinese made products, to me, is not directly helping America, and it may even be hurting us honestly. Sorry for the rambling, but I must point out that nothing I said was at all political, and it is 100% on topic with this discussion❤️❤️👍❤️❤️span widget

[inkstainedruth]

5 minutes ago, como said:

I thought this thread was about Parker 51, the past and present. Why are there so many discussions on knock-offs or something not related to Parker? It's like having a Louis Vuitton forum and half of the people discussing fake bags and how good or bad they are.

Yeah, you'd think this was the MB forum or something.... 

Truthfully, though, I think it is apropos.  Since the "new" 51s are supposed to be an homage to the originals, and might/might not be any better than the Chinese-made knockoffs (which certainly do cost a lot less than the "reboot" pens).

I have one Chinese made knockoff of a 51, and it might even be a fake of the "real" Hero knockoff at that.  It writes... but it writes like the $1 US pen it's probably worth.  I also have a vintage Forest Green 51 Aero that I picked up a few years ago at an estate sale, for which I paid a whole whopping $2; it's got an EF nib that needed a little work but even then still wrote better than the Chinese knockoff, and I'd have to see whether the reboot pens write as well; the only two 51s I had trouble with how they wrote were both EFs; the others?  They're great writers and nearly all of them cost less than the reboot baseline ("Core"?) model.  'Nuff said.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Ferocity]

1 hour ago, corniche said:

 what keeps the vintage pens popular is the fact that they work. 

 

- Sean 

✓preach~!

[Estycollector]

Imagine a forum where no one participated. 

[ZeroDukE]

20 minutes ago, Ferocity said:

believe me I knowwwww where you're coming from. Truly ❤️ I agree with you... there is no reason to turn down a perfectly good object, just because of where it was made. If someone gave me this jinhao as a gift I would accept it, use it, treasure it, take good care of it and hold on to it for as long as possible, but I would never buy one with money. 

 

If someone wants to buy this new Parker 51 but all they can afford is the jinhao, then... compromise and save up for a vintage made in the USA Parker 51 from someone in America, or purchase it second hand from an American mom&pops store or online seller in The United States so your money stays in the country as much as possible. Even if, let's say you want to purchase the jinhao just for comparing; then purchase it second hand from an American mom&pops store or online seller in The United States so your money stays in the country as much as possible👍I personally would not buy it though, BECAUSE I won't feel good about it. All i want is to help America, and if my logic is not flawless as a result then so be it 💔 yes I understand that my logic for why is completely flawed on so many levels. I just don't feel good promoting Chinese made products or buying them. At the end of the day, the reason why is: I am thinking with my heart and not with my brain. I'm a very logical human, so understand that "to think with my heart," is something I rarely do. The fact of the matter is though regardless of where it's made I would much rather have few things that are well-made to last a long time as opposed to a whole bunch of things that are just going to break and contaminate the planet as waste AND IF I CAN HELP THE AMERICAN ECONOMY WHILE DOING SO THEN HE!!YEAH🤷🏻‍♂️ that's why I agree with you. If it's made in China and it's well made, then what the heck right?

 

Yes I understand this Parker 51 is made in France, but as far as I know France is respectful to the America economy ❤️I want to help the economy of America as much as possible and buying Chinese made products, to me, is not directly helping America, and it may even be hurting us honestly. Sorry for the rambling, but I must point out that nothing I said was at all political, and it is 100% on topic with this discussion❤️❤️👍❤️❤️span widget

It is good to know that this is not a political statement at all.  So let's continue talking about the NG51, please.

[Mike B]

1 minute ago, zeroduke said:

It is good to know that this is not a political statement at all.  So let's continue talking about the NG51, please.

Absolutely.

 

If Parker is smart and introduces Forest Green and Flighter models, then we have an entirely new way to complete our collections!

[inkstainedruth]

2 hours ago, Ferocity said:

Plus after reading all this "China stuff," I have to say: I just wish Parker would have the intestinal fortitude to inform us/show 100% where all the materials came from, where they were assembled(plus if done so by hand or by machine) and where each piece of the fountain pen was manufactured. The fact they claim it's made in France isn't so bad, but even so I wish it was made 100% in The United States of America 🥳

Okay, lovely sentiment, but Parker really ISN'T a US company anymore -- and hasn't been for a while.  It's a French company owned by a conglomerate that's best known for making trashcans and plastic storage tubs. 

Parker doesn't even have the Newhaven plant in the UK anymore (which was torn down a few years ago -- there was a big discussion about it at the time in another thread).  Which is kinda too bad, because I think my French re-issue Vector, while nice, is not as good as the UK production Vectors.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth