Parker 51 Comeback 2020?

[FarmBoy]

I think I’ll buy one just to mess with everyone here...

[corniche]

5 minutes ago, FarmBoy said:

I think I’ll buy one just to mess with everyone here...

 

Why not? I'm sure you'll hate it with every fiber of your being.  

 

- Sean 

 

[maclink]

Mine arrives today. I'll be sure to share my experience.  

 

[corniche]

12 minutes ago, maclink said:

Mine arrives today. I'll be sure to share my experience.  

 

 

That's great, Mac! I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Refresh my memory; are you getting the Core or Deluxe? (I know the latter has been harder to find).

 

- Sean 

[maclink]

40 minutes ago, corniche said:

That's great, Mac! I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Refresh my memory; are you getting the Core or Deluxe? (I know the latter has been harder to find).

I always go deluxe if I can manage the cost.... Deluxe it is.  😉  Cultpens did it again.  The Plum finish.  I suspect I will not be disappointed.

 

I decided to go for it since the pen does seem to come with a nicely tuned nib.  That's the major concern for me dealt with.  It's a c/c pen which I MUCH prefer to the aerometric (or is it matic?) system on my 4 original... 'real' ... P51's (my attitude on this new P51 issue after further reading of this thread and thinking about it all, is beginning to change.) 

 

I will be able to enjoy the ergonomics which I've always admired.   Aside from that, all the other pluses for the P51 have long been equalled by other pens.  Nibs were not typically nails back then.  There is no shortage of practical, nail type nibs these days.  No shortage of pens that don't dry out etc.  Pelikan's filling system has stood the test of time, and we can see why, just as I can certainly understand the death of the aerometric system.  

 

Sure enough, the P51 is iconic and sold tons for genuine innovations/features.  However,  this was also thanks, in no small part, to a huge marketing effort (Montblanc anyone???).

 

Why is it that Parker stopped the P51's production for 40yrs?  I know that ballpoint pens became the rage, but Pelikan and MB soldiered on with success. 

[corniche]

45 minutes ago, maclink said:

I always go deluxe if I can manage the cost.... Deluxe it is.  😉  Cultpens did it again.  The Plum finish.  I suspect I will not be disappointed.

 

Hi Maclink,

 

Good for you. I meant to give a shout out for Cult Pens when you mentioned them before. I buy all of my Pelikans there - I can get them for way less money in England than I can here.

Quote

 

I decided to go for it since the pen does seem to come with a nicely tuned nib.  That's the major concern for me dealt with.  It's a c/c pen which I MUCH prefer to the aerometric (or is it matic?) system on my 4 original... 'real' ... P51's (my attitude on this new P51 issue after further reading of this thread and thinking about it all, is beginning to change.) 

 

Yes. I like the nibs on both my Core models and I'm eagerly waiting to try out the gold one on Monday. I prefer the c/c system myself, by far. That's interesting. All I can tell you, is that if you look at the pen for what it is and forget everything else "51"; I think you'll like it. FWIW, I like mine.

 

Quote

 

I will be able to enjoy the ergonomics which I've always admired.   Aside from that, all the other pluses for the P51 have long been equalled by other pens.  Nibs were not typically nails back then.  There is no shortage of practical, nail type nibs these days.  No shortage of pens that don't dry out etc.  Pelikan's filling system has stood the test of time, and we can see why, just as I can certainly understand the death of the aerometric system.  

 

Sure enough, the P51 is iconic and sold tons for genuine innovations/features.  However,  this was also thanks, in no small part, to a huge marketing effort (Montblanc anyone???).

 

Why is it that Parker stopped the P51's production for 40yrs?  I know that ballpoint pens became the rage, but Pelikan and MB soldiered on with success. 

 

Yup.

 

Well, I think the German market has always remained much more "fountain pen friendly" than most other countries. AFAIK, Germany and India are the only countries where fountain pens were still mandatory in the schools. I think that helps a lot to ingrain, (or should i say, engrave ), them on the people's psyches.

 

- Sean

[maclink]

16 minutes ago, corniche said:

Yes. I like the nibs on both my Core models and I'm eagerly waiting to try out the gold one on Monday. I prefer the c/c system myself, by far. That's interesting. All I can tell you, is that if you look at the pen for what it is and forget everything else "51"; I think you'll like it. FWIW, I like mine.

Come to think of it Sean, I never really liked all that much the nibs on the P51's I have.  The first was the most interesting of the lot.  It was an Italic F which wrote like a F stub grind.  It was a bit dry, but I liked it anyway, especially when I took it to work and wrote on cheaper paper.  The flow was not uniform and I eventually took the pen apart suspecting that it was not cleaned, but it seemed clean as a whistle, though the breather tube had rotted and broken off at the feed.  This pen was said to have been refurbished.

 

My second pen, a plum, had a F nib that was a firehose.  I changed the nib which was ..... hmmmmmm ... OK...   No breather tube in this pen which was again said to be fully serviced and restored.

 

My third pen, a maroon body, had a fine nib which was ........hmmmm... OK again.  I was still not yet disillusioned about the writing experience.

 

My 4th pen had a broad italic grind which was like a 1.1mm stub.  Again...... OK..  <shrug>

Disillusionment set it and I seriously considered never looking at another vintage pen.

 

I later got a Pelikan 400nn.  Now THAT pen was worth a try.  The nib certainly made for an experience not easily or if at all available from a modern fountain pen experience.  

 

I do have a Parker Duofold with a F nib that I really enjoy (although it's a serious nail despite being gold).  It was well tuned.  I am interested in this new Parker because I do like the P51 ergonomics and would like to use it with a nib that I truly enjoy. 

[TheRedBeard]

14 hours ago, corniche said:

 

Hi Esty,

 

You have to see this as a blessing in disguise; if we didn't have the NG51 to run into the ground, we'd be discussing religion and politics. 

 

- Sean 

Rightly said, Sean :)

"New" P51 is much more pleasant and safe topic :)

I think if Newell would chose a different name for it (not P51) we would have nothing to discuss here on 50+ pages...

 

[maclink]

Well, I got it and had a look.  I'm quite acquainted with the P51's of old and took out the teal coloured one I have for comparison.  I'm sorry that the panoramic images do not properly capture the colour, although the the ones with the nibs further down, do.

 

 

Capped, I had a smile on my face.  The pen looks nice with the teal going well with the gold.  The striped finish of the cap is also nice.  I actually prefer the new clip design and do not think it cheap. The fact that it's stamped is to me, a matter of taste.  The stamped look is more streamlined and I prefer that.

 

Things get very mixed from here.

 

How about the ergonomics?

 

 

I don't know who made the decisions with the redesign, but it was just that because fundamental changes were made throughout, including the ergonomics.  If you look at the pens uncapped, the illusion of sameness disappears and it's now one of just similarity.  I am this harsh because the new P51 is significantly shorter when uncapped.  Uncapped, the new P51 is 117mm vs the old which is 126mm.  This is almost by 10mm!   This was not a good finding for me, or good news for those who specifically enjoy a P51 unposted.  Ergonomics is a sensitive issues and a choice few millimeters here and there can transform how a pen feels.  This case was no exception.  I definitely prefer the original uncapped since it feels more balanced and comfortable with that more length uncapped.

 

When the pens are capped, they are now about the same length, which adds to the increased sensation of back-weighting with the new P51; although admittedly, it's not that different from the original.  Additionally, the original posts deeper and more securely with less effort and I think this contributes to the better feel.  This is why I think a pen lover at heart who genuinely cares about the users comfort should design pens.  It's not about bling and flare and what catches the eye.... all that should come afterwards.

 

The screw cap is OK, but care is required since cross threading can quite easily happen and this could be disastrous if capping is forced with metal on plastic threads.  The capping is secure and I don't expect that it will come loose.  Only time will tell if there's a good seal.  The threads do not bother me at all since I grip the section beyond them when writing.

 

The look of the nibs?

 

Regarding the look of the nibs.  The image says it all.  It looks worse in the hand and doesn't go well with my obsessive/compulsive side.  The old version is more aesthetic.  The new version gives me the urge to take a finger and try get the nib/feed closer to the tip of the section.  I actually gave it a try, but what was reasonable force for a brand new pen, didn't work.  Not that I expected it to. 

 

How does it write?

😃

I decided to go with Pelikan Edelstein Tanzanite as the ink for testing.  I did a bulb syringe flush with plain water before inking up.  My pen actually came with a converter fitted!  Do you think the dealers are listening??  I bet they are! 

 

My choice was a F nib and it does write like a fine.  It's a very well tuned nib.  Smooth and with a good ink flow.  I feel no desire to adjust this nib in any way so far.  I've never had a nib write like this and then start to sputter days later.  If this one does, I will certainly be more inclined to think that it's a seal problem and that the ink is drying in the nib/feed.  

 

Wrapping it up.

😐

Am I happy I bought the pen? ... Not really, but I've felt worse about many and more expensive pens that I've bought before.  Nothing special about this purchase and 'curiosity does often kill the cat'.  I wouldn't buy it again because it's an ergonomic disappointment.  Furthermore, I dislike the appearance of the nib and section.  Not that I like the original hooded nib appearance.  It's more of a neutral position, bordering closely on a dislike.  The new version tips me firmly over into a dislike.  My feeling about the original hooded nib appearance has to be taken into account when considering my feeling on the new P51.  Horses for courses on this one. 

 

I hope this helps and thought I aught to share it.  This is my honest first impressions, I THINK.... 

 

 

[TheRedBeard]

6 hours ago, corniche said:

Hi all,

 

FWIW, I got the word - my Plum NG51 shipped out and will be here Monday morning.  🥳

 

- Sean 

Good news, Sean.

We are waiting for your first honest impressions :)

 

[TheRedBeard]

7 minutes ago, maclink said:

Well, I got it and had a look.  I'm quite acquainted with the P51's of old and took out the teal coloured one I have for comparison.  I'm sorry that the panoramic images do not properly capture the colour, although the the ones with the nibs further down, do.

 

 

Capped, I had a smile on my face.  The pen looks nice with the teal going well with the gold.  The striped finish of the cap is also nice.  I actually prefer the new clip design and do not think it cheap. The fact that it's stamped is to me, a matter of taste.  The stamped look is more streamlined and I prefer that.

 

Things get very mixed from here.

 

How about the ergonomics?

 

 

I don't know who made the decisions with the redesign, but it was just that because fundamental changes were made throughout, including the ergonomics.  If you look at the pens uncapped, the illusion of sameness disappears and it's now one of just similarity.  I am this harsh because the new P51 is significantly shorter when uncapped.  Uncapped, the new P51 is 117mm vs the old which is 126mm.  This is almost by 10mm!   This was not a good finding for me, or good news for those who specifically enjoy a P51 unposted.  Ergonomics is a sensitive issues and a choice few millimeters here and there can transform how a pen feels.  This case was no exception.  I definitely prefer the original uncapped since it feels more balanced and comfortable with that more length uncapped.

 

When the pens are capped, they are now about the same length, which adds to the increased sensation of back-weighting with the new P51; although admittedly, it's not that different from the original.  Additionally, the original posts deeper and more securely with less effort and I think this contributes to the better feel.  This is why I think a pen lover at heart who genuinely cares about the users comfort should design pens.  It's not about bling and flare and what catches the eye.... all that should come afterwards.

 

The screw cap is OK, but care is required since cross threading can quite easily happen and this could be disastrous if capping is forced with metal on plastic threads.  The capping is secure and I don't expect that it will come loose.  Only time will tell if there's a good seal.  The threads do not bother me at all since I grip the section beyond them when writing.

 

The look of the nibs?

 

Regarding the look of the nibs.  The image says it all.  It looks worse in the hand and doesn't go well with my obsessive/compulsive side.  The old version is more aesthetic.  The new version gives me the urge to take a finger and try get the nib/feed closer to the tip of the section.  I actually gave it a try, but what was reasonable force for a brand new pen, didn't work.  Not that I expected it to. 

 

How does it write?

😃

I decided to go with Pelikan Edelstein Tanzanite as the ink for testing.  I did a bulb syringe flush with plain water before inking up.  My pen actually came with a converter fitted!  Do you think the dealers are listening??  I bet they are! 

 

My choice was a F nib and it does write like a fine.  It's a very well tuned nib.  Smooth and with a good ink flow.  I feel no desire to adjust this nib in any way so far.  I've never had a nib write like this and then start to sputter days later.  If this one does, I will certainly be more inclined to think that it's a seal problem and that the ink is drying in the nib/feed.  

 

Wrapping it up.

😐

Am I happy I bought the pen? ... Not really, but I've felt worse about many and more expensive pens that I've bought before.  Nothing special about this purchase and 'curiosity does often kill the cat'.  I wouldn't buy it again because it's an ergonomic disappointment.  Furthermore, I dislike the appearance of the nib and section.  Not that I like the original hooded nib appearance.  It's more of a neutral position, bordering closely on a dislike.  The new version tips me firmly over into a dislike.  My feeling about the original hooded nib appearance has to be taken into account when considering my feeling on the new P51.  Horses for courses on this one. 

 

I hope this helps and thought I aught to share it.  This is my honest first impressions, I THINK.... 

 

 

Hello Maclink,

Thank you very much for pretty detailed first impressions and opinion - you added a lot to understanding what is "new" P51 actually is... Much appreciated! :)

It seems I eventually will have to buy it and see/test personally because I still find the clip looking cheap...

 

BTW, have you managed to get any discount from Cultpens at all?

[maclink]

1 minute ago, TheRedBeard said:

Hello Maclink,

Thank you very much for pretty detailed first impressions and opinion - you added a lot to understanding what is "new" P51 actually is... Much appreciated!

It seems I eventually will have to buy it and see/test personally because I still find the clip looking cheap...

 

BTW, have you managed to get any discount from Cultpens at all?

I may have gotten the converter free. 🙃

 

I like your plan to try for yourself since the pen experience is very personal.  For instance, here am I writing with the pen and thinking to myself that someone with smaller hands than mine, may actually like this pen a lot unposted.  It actually writes very well.  Why can't nibs more often write like this out of the box?  

[Estycollector]

If I came across as mean spirited, I apologize profusely. I think it is good to see this re-inroduction. Us older collectors might forget that some have no idea what even a Parker 51 is. This just might be "the beginning of a beautiful relationship" for some. 

[TheRedBeard]

6 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

I think I’ll buy one just to mess with everyone here...

I think I will do the same just in order to sort out my ambiguous attitude to it now

 

[TheRedBeard]

5 minutes ago, maclink said:

I may have gotten the converter free. 🙃

 

I like your plan to try for yourself since the pen experience is very personal.  For instance, here am I writing with the pen and thinking to myself that someone with smaller hands than mine, may actually like this pen a lot unposted.  It actually writes very well.  Why can't nibs more often write like this out of the box?  

At least now I am more convinced that I should have it in my Parker collection anyway... even if I may not like it...

[Estycollector]

You guys are wearing ol FB down...LOL!!

[DustyR]

1 hour ago, maclink said:

Uncapped, the new P51 is 117mm vs the old which is 126mm.  This is almost by 10mm!  

so it’s more of a Parker 21 re-release (or maybe a Demi)...  glad I have a half dozen P51s from the late ‘40s - ‘50s to keep that itch scratched. 

[Glenn-SC]

2 hours ago, maclink said:

 

It seems unfair to compare a "51" Lustraloy cap to the current gold filled cap.

The brush stainless steel caps always looked cheap to me when compared to the original solid and gold filled versions and also does compared to the current gold. 

IMHO Lustraloy only looks worse as it gets scared during use.
The current stainless steel caps looks cheap compared to the gold (old or current) as well.

 

BTW, the clip on the "original" "51" was fabricated by stamping as well.

[maclink]

15 minutes ago, Glenn-SC said:

 

It seems unfair to compare a "51" Lustraloy cap to the current gold filled cap.

The brush stainless steel caps always looked cheap to me when compared to the original solid and gold filled versions and also does compared to the current gold. 

IMHO Lustraloy only looks worse as it gets scared during use.
The current stainless steel caps looks cheap compared to the gold (old or current) as well.

 

BTW, the clip on the "original" "51" was fabricated by stamping as well.

It was mainly the clip that I was demonstrating, i.e., the stamped look of the new one.  I prefer it.

[TheRedBeard]

28 minutes ago, Glenn-SC said:

 

................

 

BTW, the clip on the "original" "51" was fabricated by stamping as well.

I know that. But I don't like design of the new one... IMO, it looks like a designer did not what he wanted to present...

There were unusual clip designs on Parker Ellipse and Parker 100 but those were perfectly in line with the pen's design itself.

But IMHO it is not a case for "new" P51...

It is only my very humble opinion :)