Parker 51 Comeback 2020?

[corniche]

12 hours ago, Flounder said:

 

Bit of a misconception here Sean, there's a diaphragm solely in the Vacumatic version, no additional ink sac. It's the diaphragm inverting that alters the barrel volume with each stroke of the plunger.

 

Hello Flounder and Mitto,

 

Yeah, I intermingled the words diaphragm and ink sac - an honest mistake when you're tired... ...fortunately, the slip made no negative impact to my response; i.e., the Aerometric is still the superior filling system - if it were not, the Vacumatic system would not have been replaced; just as the horse would not have been replaced by the car if it had been the superior mode of personal transport.

 

- Sean 

[Glenn-SC]

On 2/28/2021 at 4:58 AM, corniche said:

As far as filling systems go, look for what's called an Aerometric. It's a squeeze filler and basically maintenance free. They're easier to flush, too. They're so reliable, most pens still have their original units - including the Pliglas sac. 

Since both the Vac and Aero "51"s have the same nib/collector/feed/breather tube arrangement, and differ only on the method of creating a vacuum to ingest the ink (expelling air and drawing ink in through the breather) I never personally understood the "easier to flush" perspective favoring the Aero over the Vac.

[TheRedBeard]

On 2/28/2021 at 3:15 AM, corniche said:

 

Hi Enuhski,

 

I'm still waiting for my plum NG51 and will be adding it to my collection - and doing it from a collector's perspective - but for a regular user - if all other  things are equal, than I would not recommend buying the Deluxe NG51 - especially for $250. I got mine for $180 - and even at that price, I would recommend an original 51 over the NG51, (unless you're like me - and want it for your pen collection).

......

 

- Sean 

 

Errrr... Sean...

By this post you disturbed a Collector inside me again ...  now it is a high risk for me that I will suppress cold-minded pragmatic Businessman and give up to wild Collector's instincts, and make an U-turn on my decision not to purchase NG51 Deluxe

 

[corniche]

5 hours ago, Glenn-SC said:

Since both the Vac and Aero "51"s have the same nib/collector/feed/breather tube arrangement, and differ only on the method of creating a vacuum to ingest the ink (expelling air and drawing ink in through the breather) I never personally understood the "easier to flush" perspective favoring the Aero over the Vac.

 

Hello Glenn,

 

Well, personally, i find the Aerometric's pushbar a lot easier to use than that stiff button on the end of a vacumatic pen. Your hand position is also more comfortable with an Aerometric than with the vac, IMHO. YMMV.

 

I know there are collector's here who are really ape for their Vacs, but there is good reason why the system was replaced for what most people consider a better one; i.e., the Aerometric - it's less cumbersome to use and virtually maintenance free. That said, I can understand the nostalgia of a vac, if that's your thing, but it isn't mine.

 

I have a couple of Vacs, but hardly ever use them because their a pain to clean... with my hands... literally.  I'd sell them except I think its important to have them represented in my collection, so I have one actual Vacumatic from 1936 and one 1947 vac 51 that was built at the tractor factory instead of in Janesville - I wanted one of those for its historical relevance. 

 

- Sean 

[corniche]

4 hours ago, TheRedBeard said:

Errrr... Sean...

By this post you disturbed a Collector inside me again ...  now it is a high risk for me that I will suppress cold-minded pragmatic Businessman and give up to wild Collector's instincts, and make an U-turn on my decision not to purchase NG51 Deluxe

 

 

 

It would make a great conversation piece, if nothing else. 

 

- Sean 

 

[Ferocity]

Has anyone NOT gotten their hands on their Parker 51 Deluxe yet?

 

It's still a mystery to me when mine will even be shipped out. Hopefully before the end of March 2021 ❤️

[corniche]

57 minutes ago, Ferocity said:

Has anyone NOT gotten their hands on their Parker 51 Deluxe yet? & if so WHERE did you order yours from?

 

It's still a mystery to me when mine will even be shipped out. Hopefully before the end of March 2021 ❤️

 

Hi Ferocity, Everyone, 

 

No soap, yet. I just checked now - mine hasn't shipped yet. I ordered it on February 12th and it hasn't shipped yet.  It seems the few that made it here have been snapped up. 

 

I have been able to at least get the Core pens I wanted - fp/bp sets in Teal and Midnight Blue. (No, they're not sold as sets, I made my own by using 3 different dealers- Pen Chalet; Pen Boutique & Colorado Pen).

 

If you have an order in, you may want to contact them and ask. I'm biding my time by buying originals... ...I bought a nice set from Teri at PSP over the weekend; it shipped today. 

 

Mind you, be friendly to your dealers - it's not their fault.

 

- Sean 

[Ferocity]

= )

= )

❤️❤️👍❤️❤️

 

[Estycollector]

12 hours ago, corniche said:

 

Hello Glenn,

 

Well, personally, i find the Aerometric's pushbar a lot easier to use than that stiff button on the end of a vacumatic pen. Your hand position is also more comfortable with an Aerometric than with the vac, IMHO. YMMV.

 

I know there are collector's here who are really ape for their Vacs, but there is good reason why the system was replaced for what most people consider a better one; i.e., the Aerometric - it's less cumbersome to use and virtually maintenance free. That said, I can understand the nostalgia of a vac, if that's your thing, but it isn't mine.

 

I have a couple of Vacs, but hardly ever use them because their a pain to clean... with my hands... literally.  I'd sell them except I think its important to have them represented in my collection, so I have one actual Vacumatic from 1936 and one 1947 vac 51 that was built at the tractor factory instead of in Janesville - I wanted one of those for its historical relevance. 

 

- Sean 

Dear Good Friend Sean,

 

I have a couple of the vaccumatic type "51"'s and the Wing Sung "vaccumatic". My only aerometype is a NOS Parker 21. I don't find the Aerometric to be as effective and I see the aerometric just a different take on the same system as my Esterbrooks from the 1930's, 40's, and mid '50's. 

 

Most you have forgotten more than I will ever know. For me, Parker seems to me to have taken the complexity out of the model either to keep them competitive or to provide as many comsumers as possible with a hooded nib. Actually, the reason I wanted a couple of the 1942 models was to experience the original design. 

[bunnspecial]

For me, the Aero has one ultimate trump card-the vac will reliably need a new diaphragm every ~10 years or so, whereas the aero basically just keeps going on the Pli-Glass sac.

 

The Vacs I've had, both "51"s and Vacumatics, have had relatively easy to operate plungers, so I don't find them that uncomfortable to use/flush. With that said, I've never had anything other than plastic plunger.

 

One thing I have noticed is that the Aero seems easier to fill. On a Vac, in my experience, you really to push the button down fairly fast to fill properly, and if you just sit there and idly press it(the way I'm inclined to handle vintage pens) you can think the filler is broken. On the other hand, Aeros are basically fool-proof to fill. That's not a huge deal, since once you know how to work a Vac it's easy to handle.

[Estycollector]

I only use Waterman ink. It would be interesting to know if a good wet ,not permanent ink would allow the vaccumatics last longer. 

[eciton]

I received my teal steel-nib today, and having never used an original 51, I was still underwhelmed. The teal colour is nice, the finish is decent, well polished.

 

No converter, minor annoyance. On the small side, to be expected. Cap threads don't feel like they'll last. But the biggest reason I'm underwhelmed is the writing experience. The nib is smooth but definitely on the dry side. Lacking in personality. I'll give it some time, but wanted to share my first impressions.

[inkstainedruth]

4 hours ago, bunnspecial said:

For me, the Aero has one ultimate trump card-the vac will reliably need a new diaphragm every ~10 years or so, whereas the aero basically just keeps going on the Pli-Glass sac.

 

The Vacs I've had, both "51"s and Vacumatics, have had relatively easy to operate plungers, so I don't find them that uncomfortable to use/flush. With that said, I've never had anything other than plastic plunger.

 

One thing I have noticed is that the Aero seems easier to fill. On a Vac, in my experience, you really to push the button down fairly fast to fill properly, and if you just sit there and idly press it(the way I'm inclined to handle vintage pens) you can think the filler is broken. On the other hand, Aeros are basically fool-proof to fill. That's not a huge deal, since once you know how to work a Vac it's easy to handle.

I'll agree with you with Aeros or 51 Vacs, except in one point -- I think that my Cedar Blue Vac with the EF nib holds more ink than the Forest Green Aero with the EF nib.  

But yeah, the Cedar Blue had to be overhauled (although, I only paid $25 US to begin with, before the repairs), and it is my go-to pen for when I have to do research and take copious notes.   The Forest Green? A lot cheaper and mostly only needed to be flushed out (both pens needed nib work, which most of the F and wider 51s of either flavor did NOT need, as I recall).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[NumberSix]

I just loaded up my black 51 (M) with Superchrome Jade Green. 😈

 

Before that, I was using Diamine Blue Black. I like the nib and wetness, but I admit something feels rattly. Not sure what it is. I keep feeling like the barrel is about to unscrew from the section.

[bunnspecial]

5 hours ago, Estycollector said:

I only use Waterman ink. It would be interesting to know if a good wet ,not permanent ink would allow the vaccumatics last longer. 

 

I no longer have any 51 Vacs(my only one was a dove gray that had what I think was probably an accountant point and way too fine for me) but still have several Vacumatics(the celluloid ones) in my collection.

 

Like all my pens where ink comes into contact with rubber, I tend to use either standard Waterman or Pelikan, with the choice between those coming down to how wet writing the ink is. I tend to think of the blue versions(Serenity Blue and Royal Blue) of these inks as the gold standard for "gentle" inks. I'll sometimes use Montblanc Royal Blue, which is similar in wetness to Waterman but a darker/more saturated blue(and still fairly gentle).

 

I tend to think of these brands of inks, and the washable blues in particular, as giving a "best case" life of rubber parts. I doubt a different ink could extend the life, but a few repairmen have documented trends of certain inks correlating with premature sac failure.

 

Just as an idle thought, though, I wonder if there's a correlation between rubber life(whether sac or diaphragm) and whether the pen is used occasionally and left "dry" vs. if it's constantly inked and used with a gentle ink. I'd almost think continuous use might be better since it hopefully reduce oxidation of the rubber on the inside of the sac, but I don't know that for sure. I wasn't alive when these sort of pens were in widespread use like that, so don't know how common sac failure was in, say, the 40s or 50s.

[FarmBoy]

3 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

I'll agree with you with Aeros or 51 Vacs, except in one point -- I think that my Cedar Blue Vac with the EF nib holds more ink than the Forest Green Aero with the EF nib.  

But yeah, the Cedar Blue had to be overhauled (although, I only paid $25 US to begin with, before the repairs), and it is my go-to pen for when I have to do research and take copious notes.   The Forest Green? A lot cheaper and mostly only needed to be flushed out (both pens needed nib work, which most of the F and wider 51s of either flavor did NOT need, as I recall).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Parker told repairmen to test both vac and aero filled 51s with the same ink capacity test guage.   Parker claimed they hold the same amount. 

[TheRedBeard]

10 hours ago, NumberSix said:

I just loaded up my black 51 (M) with Superchrome Jade Green. 😈

 

Before that, I was using Diamine Blue Black. I like the nib and wetness, but I admit something feels rattly. Not sure what it is. I keep feeling like the barrel is about to unscrew from the section.

 

Hi NumberSix,

Are you talking about a "new" P51 with a steel nib?

[TheRedBeard]

13 hours ago, eciton said:

I received my teal steel-nib today, and having never used an original 51, I was still underwhelmed. The teal colour is nice, the finish is decent, well polished.

 

No converter, minor annoyance. On the small side, to be expected. Cap threads don't feel like they'll last. But the biggest reason I'm underwhelmed is the writing experience. The nib is smooth but definitely on the dry side. Lacking in personality. I'll give it some time, but wanted to share my first impressions.

 

Hi Anthony,

 

Thank you for sharing your first impressions with us :)

It is interesting to hear ones from a person who is not affected by previous experience and "legacy" of using an original glorious P51 :)

Based on information and reviews from your blog I assume you are not a fan of Parker pens And it seems you are not fond of vintage pens either :)

 

BTW, you run a quite nice blog :)

 

 

 

 

[Estycollector]

7 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

Parker told repairmen to test both vac and aero filled 51s with the same ink capacity test guage.   Parker claimed they hold the same amount. 

They may have similar or same capacity, but my experience with a NOS Parker 21 has been that the process to achieve a similar capacity is not the same.  This isn't a problem if using a pen at the personal business desk, but I suspect the 21 was meant as a school pen. 

[NumberSix]

2 hours ago, TheRedBeard said:

 

Hi NumberSix,

Are you talking about a "new" P51 with a steel nib?

Correct. The new model, received not long ago from my preorder.