Parker 51 Comeback 2020?

[corniche]

13 hours ago, enuhski said:

Hi, everyone, I've been trying - unsuccessfully, to find a vintage one, so for now I'm thinking of getting the gold nib one (Parker 51, 2021 edition).   I found a pretty good deal on the Parker 51 deluxe - enough for it to be within buying range for me. I see that this thread is very busy so while I'm wading through the thread, if you don't mind my asking if you can share your thoughts on getting one - those who have it. I'm looking at the gorgeous plum and gold one. Thank you.

 

 

 

Hi Enuhski,

 

I'm still waiting for my plum NG51 and will be adding it to my collection - and doing it from a collector's perspective - but for a regular user - if all other  things are equal, than I would not recommend buying the Deluxe NG51 - especially for $250. I got mine for $180 - and even at that price, I would recommend an original 51 over the NG51, (unless you're like me - and want it for your pen collection).

 

But I cannot say for sure because I'm still waiting for mine. But, like I said, if ALL things are equal to the Core model, except for a half-gram of gold; for $250, I wouldn't recommend it.

 

You can get a really nice original for $250; e.g., I just purchased a nice Aerometric set from Teri at Peyton Street Pens for $220, (a Custom pen/pencil set).

 

I'll echo Estycollector's recommendation for Parker51.com - I've purchased a few 51s from Ernesto and never had a problem.  👍

 

- Sean 

 

[corniche]

12 hours ago, TheRedBeard said:

Please, check this thread about 2-3 days ago, as far as I remember, someone already got "new" P51 Deluxe and posted his first impressions.

 

Otherwise, please, read all recent posts of Sean aka Corniche on this thread about his experience with NG51 with a steel nib - he provided us with a very useful and well-balanced opinion, and you can rely on it completely.

At this moment, it is reasonable to assume that quality and performance of Deluxe version with gold nib and gold-plated cap should be not worse than ons of basic versions.

 

If you are happy to have Vector/Jotter nib/feed dressed to resemble P51, and pay unjustified premium for that masquerade, then you might be happy with NG51 then

 

Hi RedBeard,

 

I'm humbled by your vote of confidence in my critique of the NG51.   Thank you.

 

- Sean 

[corniche]

10 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

Don't knock "beat-up user grade pens" -- ESPECIALLY if they're 51s.  Most of mine were either estate sale/antique store finds or on eBay.  And yeah, I needed to have some rehab work done on the 51 Vacs and some nib work done on two pens with EF nibs.  But even then I didn't pay even $87 US total for any of them except for the Midnight Blue Aero and the English-made Navy Gray Aero with the OB nib.  With the nib work on the Forest Green Aero (yes, estate sale find) it cost me $22 (plus gas from the suburbs and back, and admission fees to the Commonwealth Pen show; I let the EZPass worry about tolls on the Mass Pike).  And maybe $58.20 is no longer the going rate for vintage 51s, but I didn't pay much more than that for the black Aero at my second pen show, from Pendleton Brown, so the nib had already been worked on....  And while it was seven or eight years ago at this point, I think I paid $56....  

Yeah, I'm also the person who doesn't completely freak out by a name engraved on a vintage pen -- if it cuts the "value" it also cuts the PRICE....  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Good for you, Ruth and this all may be true,...

 

...but life is too rough to go through it with beat-up pens...

 

...unless you're one of those oddballs who like pens with "character."

 

But when it comes to my pen collection; I prefer to be the only character. 

 

 

- Sean 

 

PS: Monograms do not bother me, either; in fact, I find them interesting - as long as the rest of the pen is in excellent condition. 

 

And while I am supposedly retired; I find myself busier than ever before. I wish I had the time to troll pen shows, yard sales, etc., looking for blow-out bargains, but i just don't have that kind of time - so I rely on dealers to do the legwork and restorations for me, (and there are a lot of other people in the same boat). There are also those who are afraid to go out and mingle because of the pandemic. 

 

I do come across estate sales from time to time in my real estate quests, but unfortunately, I rarely come across fountain pens - and so far, the few I have encountered were nothing I'd want.

 

[I-am-not-really-here]

1 hour ago, Audog said:

So the issue is with grip? I think I may try one, as I love the look of them. 

The grip is plastic and with a cap that is snap-on the pen offers little tactile feedback regarding how your fingers may be sliding down towards the nib wings, which are flush to the grip.  

[corniche]

1 hour ago, Audog said:

So the issue is with grip? I think I may try one, as I love the look of them. 

 

Hi Audog,

 

Just to chime in here, the grip on the Carene is actually quite comfortable and it's a well-balanced pen, too; whether its posted or not. 

 

My problem with one of the two was ink leaking out of the ink intake hole that is located in the grip, just below the nib.

 

I never held the pen that low down on the section, but ink would leak from that hole and get into the cap and all over the section. IMHO, it is some kind of design flaw in the feed system which causes ink to leak from there.

 

- Sean 

[FarmBoy]

9 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

Don't knock "beat-up user grade pens" -- ESPECIALLY if they're 51s.  Most of mine were either estate sale/antique store finds or on eBay.  And yeah, I needed to have some rehab work done on the 51 Vacs and some nib work done on two pens with EF nibs.  But even then I didn't pay even $87 US total for any of them except for the Midnight Blue Aero and the English-made Navy Gray Aero with the OB nib.  With the nib work on the Forest Green Aero (yes, estate sale find) it cost me $22 (plus gas from the suburbs and back, and admission fees to the Commonwealth Pen show; I let the EZPass worry about tolls on the Mass Pike).  And maybe $58.20 is no longer the going rate for vintage 51s, but I didn't pay much more than that for the black Aero at my second pen show, from Pendleton Brown, so the nib had already been worked on....  And while it was seven or eight years ago at this point, I think I paid $56....  

Yeah, I'm also the person who doesn't completely freak out by a name engraved on a vintage pen -- if it cuts the "value" it also cuts the PRICE....  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Didn’t you bottom feed a Plum 51 for about the cost of two Esterbrooks and a Wearever?

[enuhski]

Thank you all for your comments. I wasn't able to reply here because I was busy checking out the link Estycollector sent. Til last night, I've only been passively trying to find myself a vintage '51 from our local pen community. With that parker51 site, I saw so many beautiful versions of the pen in varying colors and conditions. Just one plum colored one, though, but I found other lovely colors. I need to do my research on the filling system and I will not trouble you with it, but maybe offhand, which system is easiest to maintain for a non-vintage pen user such as myself. So far, the only vintage pens I have are a scant few and all acquired pretty recently - a Noblesse, a MB 224 (black makrolon and gold cap which I mistook for a Parker 51 - please don't judge!), my mom's pre-Vector Vector, and a Parker 75 vermeil - all these pens are beautiful and I'm doing my best to take care of them. However, other than the MB 224, they are all cartridge/converter types. So any advice on which filling system on the Parker 51 to consider would be appreciated considering my inexperience in caring for vintage pens. 

 

I edited my original post to clarify that the NG51 I'm looking at is the plum and gold one (deluxe) because the price I'm being offered is really low enough to be within my range of willingness to buy. I did find the earlier reviews of the gold nib version - thanks, RedBeard, but I'm hoping that if I do get one, I won't have to do any extra work on it. We do have a local nibmeister who's fantastic at rescuing my pens that needed tuning and the like. 

 

I also see here that many would suggest getting the vintage one over the reissue. I'll try to get both. The limited time offer on the NG51 is really very tempting but it's only for a week at most, so I'll give it some more thought.  Thanks again!

[corniche]

1 hour ago, enuhski said:

Thank you all for your comments. I wasn't able to reply here because I was busy checking out the link Estycollector sent. Til last night, I've only been passively trying to find myself a vintage '51 from our local pen community. With that parker51 site, I saw so many beautiful versions of the pen in varying colors and conditions. Just one plum colored one, though, but I found other lovely colors. I need to do my research on the filling system and I will not trouble you with it, but maybe offhand, which system is easiest to maintain for a non-vintage pen user such as myself. So far, the only vintage pens I have are a scant few and all acquired pretty recently - a Noblesse, a MB 224 (black makrolon and gold cap which I mistook for a Parker 51 - please don't judge!), my mom's pre-Vector Vector, and a Parker 75 vermeil - all these pens are beautiful and I'm doing my best to take care of them. However, other than the MB 224, they are all cartridge/converter types. So any advice on which filling system on the Parker 51 to consider would be appreciated considering my inexperience in caring for vintage pens. 

 

I edited my original post to clarify that the NG51 I'm looking at is the plum and gold one (deluxe) because the price I'm being offered is really low enough to be within my range of willingness to buy. I did find the earlier reviews of the gold nib version - thanks, RedBeard, but I'm hoping that if I do get one, I won't have to do any extra work on it. We do have a local nibmeister who's fantastic at rescuing my pens that needed tuning and the like. 

 

I also see here that many would suggest getting the vintage one over the reissue. I'll try to get both. The limited time offer on the NG51 is really very tempting but it's only for a week at most, so I'll give it some more thought.  Thanks again!

 

Hello Enuhski,

 

As far as filling systems go, look for what's called an Aerometric. It's a squeeze filler and basically maintenance free. They're easier to flush, too. They're so reliable, most pens still have their original units - including the Pliglas sac.  

 

The other format is the Vacumatic, which ran until 1948. This system uses a push button with a diaphragm to compress and release an ink sac for filling the pen. Often times, the sac has to be replaced as well as the diaphragm - which is sometimes corroded beyond repair. All in all, it's a more complicated system; which, by the laws of physics, is more problematic.

 

I suppose I should also mention that for a brief moment in time; 1960-1961, IIRC, a cartridge/converter option was offered. This is, by far, the easiest and most maintenance free system, but it is also quite rare and comes at a premium.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but if you can get the plum NG51 for a great price; i.e., less than $180, USD, then go for it and sate your curiosity; the vintage models will always be around.

 

- Sean  

[enuhski]

Hi, Sean!

 

Thanks for the advice! I read your reviews and writing samples with great interest. I was initially supposed to just spring for a steel nib but yes, indeed, the price I've seen on it is about less than $180 for sure.  (It's a deep discount because I've been a loyal customer for nearly 2 years)

 

With your advice, I am more inclined to get it now :)

 

Thanks again!

 

 

Enuh 

 

 

50 minutes ago, corniche said:

 

Hello Enuhski,

 

As far as filling systems go, look for what's called an Aerometric. It's a squeeze filler and basically maintenance free. They're easier to flush, too. They're so reliable, most pens still have their original units - including the Pliglas sac.  

 

The other format is the Vacumatic, which ran until 1948. This system uses a push button with a diaphragm to compress and release an ink sac for filling the pen. Often times, the sac has to be replaced as well as the diaphragm - which is sometimes corroded beyond repair. All in all, it's a more complicated system; which, by the laws of physics, is more problematic.

 

I suppose I should also mention that for a brief moment in time; 1960-1961, IIRC, a cartridge/converter option was offered. This is, by far, the easiest and most maintenance free system, but it is also quite rare and comes at a premium.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but if you can get the plum NG51 for a great price; i.e., less than $180, USD, then go for it and sate your curiosity; the vintage models will always be around.

 

- Sean  

[TheRedBeard]

10 hours ago, corniche said:

 

Hi RedBeard,

 

I'm humbled by your vote of confidence in my critique of the NG51.   Thank you.

 

- Sean 

Hi Sean,

I often find your comments and pots very useful and practical and, importantly, well-balanced.

 

Now waiting for your opinion on NG51 Deluxe version once you get the pen 

[Estycollector]

17 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

Don't knock "beat-up user grade pens" -- ESPECIALLY if they're 51s.  Most of mine were either estate sale/antique store finds or on eBay.  And yeah, I needed to have some rehab work done on the 51 Vacs and some nib work done on two pens with EF nibs.  But even then I didn't pay even $87 US total for any of them except for the Midnight Blue Aero and the English-made Navy Gray Aero with the OB nib.  With the nib work on the Forest Green Aero (yes, estate sale find) it cost me $22 (plus gas from the suburbs and back, and admission fees to the Commonwealth Pen show; I let the EZPass worry about tolls on the Mass Pike).  And maybe $58.20 is no longer the going rate for vintage 51s, but I didn't pay much more than that for the black Aero at my second pen show, from Pendleton Brown, so the nib had already been worked on....  And while it was seven or eight years ago at this point, I think I paid $56....  

Yeah, I'm also the person who doesn't completely freak out by a name engraved on a vintage pen -- if it cuts the "value" it also cuts the PRICE....  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Funny how perceptions and interpretations differ. I never would have thought Sean was knocking beat up user pens, but just stating his preferences. 

 

Most of my stuff is well used and loved. My Crest with the Triumph nib has a nice flat area on the cap top, but doesn't effect its use one bit.

[corniche]

2 hours ago, Estycollector said:

Funny how perceptions and interpretations differ. I never would have thought Sean was knocking beat up user pens, but just stating his preferences. 

 

Most of my stuff is well used and loved. My Crest with the Triumph nib has a nice flat area on the cap top, but doesn't effect its use one bit.

 

Thank you, Chuck. Your initial perceptions were correct; unfortunately, I seem to rub some people the wrong way.  I was being a little sarcastic above with, "life is too rough to go through it with beat up pens."  

 

You're right. Personally, I prefer to get the most pristine examples I can find, (NOS, if at all possible), but I don't "look down" on beat-up pens.  

 

Oftentimes, people prefer them so they can enjoy the pen, worry free; i.e., additional wear marks, or even loss isn't an issue.  Sometimes, it's all they can afford - we've entered into some pretty rough times with the pandemic.   Occasionally, it's an ultra rare pen and that's the best specimen that can be found. 

 

Whatever the case, I do not "look down" on them; or their owners. 

 

Thank you, again.

 

- Sean  

 

[corniche]

5 hours ago, enuhski said:

Hi, Sean!

 

Thanks for the advice! I read your reviews and writing samples with great interest. I was initially supposed to just spring for a steel nib but yes, indeed, the price I've seen on it is about less than $180 for sure.  (It's a deep discount because I've been a loyal customer for nearly 2 years)

 

With your advice, I am more inclined to get it now :)

 

Thanks again!

 

 

Enuh 

 

Hi Enuhski,

 

Thank you.

 

Okay, great!   If you can get it at a deep discount, go for it. I can't wait to get mine.

 

- Sean

[corniche]

4 hours ago, TheRedBeard said:

Now waiting for your opinion on NG51 Deluxe version once you get the pen 

 

Thank you, Red.

 

I'm anxiously waiting to be able to provide it.

 

- Sean  

[slowdown]

On 2/14/2021 at 5:54 AM, ajcoleman said:

Sean,

 

Congratulations and thanks for the photos! I was anxious to see old and new side by side.  Tracking info says mine is to arrive by Wednesday, assuming the weather doesn't delay it.

 

I am curious what converters will fit it. I am really hoping I can put one of my Parker 45 squeeze converters in it. It doesn't fit in the Jotter, but from your pics the new 51 is larger than that. It might work. It won't be the same as a 51 Aero, but it would be similar. 🙂

 

Adam

Hi Adam, I read somewhere that Lamy converters fit. I put a Lamy converter in my Parker 75 Cisèle Sterling Silver, and it works just fine. 
Nicole

[inkstainedruth]

21 hours ago, corniche said:

I do come across estate sales from time to time in my real estate quests, but unfortunately, I rarely come across fountain pens - and so far, the few I have encountered were nothing I'd want.

 

I have taken to scoping out estate sales in advance, by looking at listings and photos online.  Don't know about where you live, but around here there's a website that lists all the estate sales (and some auctions) on any given weekend, all in one place; you can scroll through the listings (or -- even easier -- do a search on the page for "pen") and see if there are any likely ones worth going to, and will have links to their website or FB page for photos, if not actually attaching that link through the "Pittsburgh Estate Sales" site it   There's basically only one company that DOESN'T provide photos (they don't on their website either, but their listings tend to be pretty inclusive.  Saves me a lot of time and groundwork (and also from getting up at zero dark thirty on a Saturday morning when I don't have to...).  

And one of the companies (the one that ran the sale where I found the Forest Green Aero) is often better about listing pens -- and every now and then they also have sales at their warehouse, about a half hour upriver from me.  That's how I ended up with the Platignum calligraphy set, a couple of pamplets (one from Sheaffer and one from Hunt-Speedball) and a Parker 21 (in a metal cookie tin full of mostly ballpoints) for a whole whopping four bucks a few weeks ago.  Okay, the nib on the 21 isn't in great shape, but it was effectively free (anything on that table which didn't have a specific price tag was supposed to be $2, but the cashier apparently took the two pamphlets as being "part" of the Platignum set and I did tell her that the 21 was out of the tin (so maybe the entire contents were two bucks overall just to unload them.... .  I was expecting to pen ten bucks and got charged four -- so I'd say it was worth the 45 minutes freezing my butt in order to wait in line for the doors to open at 7 AM (and then went to one of my favorite diners, about 20 minutes upriver from the company's warehouse, for breakfast -- which cost four times as much once I tipped them for their super fast service than for the stuff I bought at the warehouse sale).  And I think I was home before 10 AM....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[inkstainedruth]

19 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

Didn’t you bottom feed a Plum 51 for about the cost of two Esterbrooks and a Wearever?

Well, since the bulk of my vintage Esties cost $15 US or less, and the Wearever was free (but I then dropped about $35 to get it up and running)....  Yeah, maybe.... 

Mind you, it was a Demi, not a full size 51, and there's a fair amount of corrosion on the sac sleeve -- but it being user grade was just fine with me.  Also, I got REALLY lucky (as in, "Best Poker Face Evah...").  And it's a medium nib.

But the real sumgai that weekend was Farmersmum, who snagged a full sized Plummer for just over half what I paid (I didn't even look at that listing past the header because it was listed as being black and I was going "Don't need a second black Aero..." 

Also, recently, Carguy got a full-size one for less than I paid (I think he said he paid $60).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[corniche]

1 hour ago, inkstainedruth said:

I have taken to scoping out estate sales in advance, by looking at listings and photos online.  Don't know about where you live, but around here there's a website that lists all the estate sales (and some auctions) on any given weekend, all in one place; you can scroll through the listings (or -- even easier -- do a search on the page for "pen") and see if there are any likely ones worth going to, and will have links to their website or FB page for photos, if not actually attaching that link through the "Pittsburgh Estate Sales" site it   There's basically only one company that DOESN'T provide photos (they don't on their website either, but their listings tend to be pretty inclusive.  Saves me a lot of time and groundwork (and also from getting up at zero dark thirty on a Saturday morning when I don't have to...).  

 

Hi Ruth,

 

That's one of the few advantages of living in an urban area. This prompted me try googling this and I came across: ESTATESALES.NET.

 

When I type in my zip code, the closest one that comes up is in Akron - 97 miles away.

 

What I usually do - when I'm up to going to any - is check out the local papers, but those ads usually dont go into a lot of detail.

 

1 hour ago, inkstainedruth said:

And one of the companies (the one that ran the sale where I found the Forest Green Aero) is often better about listing pens -- and every now and then they also have sales at their warehouse, about a half hour upriver from me.

 

Warehouse liquidations I'm sadly familiar with; lately, due to nonpayment, but so far, no one has left any pens behind, but sometimes what is left helps make up for the back rent. 

 

I took a second look at the forest green 51 here lately, and the color didn't seem as repulsive to me. I think what makes it look so garish are the subdued and dark tones of the rest of the 51 line.

 

1 hour ago, inkstainedruth said:

That's how I ended up with the Platignum calligraphy set, a couple of pamplets (one from Sheaffer and one from Hunt-Speedball) and a Parker 21 (in a metal cookie tin full of mostly ballpoints) for a whole whopping four bucks a few weeks ago.  Okay, the nib on the 21 isn't in great shape, but it was effectively free (anything on that table which didn't have a specific price tag was supposed to be $2, but the cashier apparently took the two pamphlets as being "part" of the Platignum set and I did tell her that the 21 was out of the tin (so maybe the entire contents were two bucks overall just to unload them.... .  I was expecting to pen ten bucks and got charged four -- so I'd say it was worth the 45 minutes freezing my butt in order to wait in line for the doors to open at 7 AM

 

This is where I give you credit, Ruth; I doubt if I would go through all that for a 21 with a messed up nib - even if it was only $4. At least you've got grit.

 

1 hour ago, inkstainedruth said:

(and then went to one of my favorite diners, about 20 minutes upriver from the company's warehouse, for breakfast -- which cost four times as much once I tipped them for their super fast service than for the stuff I bought at the warehouse sale).  And I think I was home before 10 AM....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

That can be the REAL joy in an expedition - the side trips are sometimes more fun then the main attraction.  I remember one time when I went up into Carroll County, (lots of farmland up there), to look at some property up there to maybe develop or hold on to for a while, whatever.

 

The trip was a total bust; the land I went up there to look at was misrepresented and of no use to me; I got a flat tire and i lost a Parker 45 - with a sweet gold nib.

 

I wasn't happy.

 

But before I left the area, I stopped at a diner for lunch - met some great and very friendly people - and got directions to a flea market a couple towns over, (that I probably wouldn't have gone to in the mood I was in, but it had been such a crappy day, I thought, oh, wth), and discovered two Matchbox cars, Mint In the Box), that had been a couple of my favorites as a little boy - and had long since been disposed of in one of our many moves, (my father was Regular Army).

 

Finding those two Matchboxes made the rest of the mess that day, nonexistent. 

 

I do still miss that damn P45 from time to time - I often wonder who found it - and if they got any use out of it, or just looked at it like an 8 year old looks at a rotary phone... i.e., with totally confused amusement. 

 

I just hope someone is enjoying it today; it was a good pen, but I think the Matchboxes are better.

 

- Sean 

 

[Flounder]

On 2/28/2021 at 9:58 AM, corniche said:

 

Hello Enuhski,

 

As far as filling systems go, look for what's called an Aerometric. It's a squeeze filler and basically maintenance free. They're easier to flush, too. They're so reliable, most pens still have their original units - including the Pliglas sac.  

 

The other format is the Vacumatic, which ran until 1948. This system uses a push button with a diaphragm to compress and release an ink sac for filling the pen. Often times, the sac has to be replaced as well as the diaphragm - which is sometimes corroded beyond repair. All in all, it's a more complicated system; which, by the laws of physics, is more problematic.

 

- Sean  

 

Bit of a misconception here Sean, there's a diaphragm solely in the Vacumatic version, no additional ink sac. It's the diaphragm inverting that alters the barrel volume with each stroke of the plunger.

[mitto]

1 hour ago, Flounder said:

 

Bit of a misconception here Sean, there's a diaphragm solely in the Vacumatic version, no additional ink sac. It's the diaphragm inverting that alters the barrel volume with each stroke of the plunger.

+1