Parker 51 Comeback 2020?

[Aysedasi]

On 2/9/2021 at 10:03 PM, como said:

But on the other hand, a big majority of their customers probably will never use a converter or even know what it is. If that’s the case, the inclusion of a converter would just be an environmentally unfriendly waste. Of course it also helps to keep the cost (and hop fully the price) of the pen down.

 

Is that not just Parker's marketing assumption?  We won't give them a convertor then they'll just buy lots of our cartridges.  The customers can have what we give them, like fine and medium nibs...  The exclusion of a convertor from the high end pen at least is, in my mind, quite extraordinary, and it must have been a conscious decision by Parker for something that costs so little...

[como]

8 minutes ago, Aysedasi said:

 

Is that not just Parker's marketing assumption?  We won't give them a convertor then they'll just buy lots of our cartridges.  The customers can have what we give them, like fine and medium nibs...  The exclusion of a convertor from the high end pen at least is, in my mind, quite extraordinary, and it must have been a conscious decision by Parker for something that costs so little...

From my experience, a lot of people who aren’t pen collectors just don’t use bottled ink. So they end up not using that converter that comes with the pen. I sold a vintage lever-filler. After several days, the buyer got in touch and asked how she could put a cartridge in this thing! Probably Parker figured out most people who buy their modern pens don’t use one, so just don’t offer it. Same with the screw cap and c/c system: keep it simple for most users and keep the cost of production and warranty service low. Most pen brands that are marketed to pen collectors do come with converters, however cheap the pens are. Converter or no converter, the cost is already imbedded in the price that they are willing to sell.

[Glenn-SC]

35 minutes ago, Aysedasi said:

 

Is that not just Parker's marketing assumption?  We won't give them a convertor then they'll just buy lots of our cartridges.  The customers can have what we give them, like fine and medium nibs...  The exclusion of a convertor from the high end pen at least is, in my mind, quite extraordinary, and it must have been a conscious decision by Parker for something that costs so little...

Mein Gott!
Let's all go storming over to the Lamy Forum and complain that the Safari doesn't come with a converter!!!

What is Lamy thinking?

Don't they know that every basic fountain pen has to come with a converter so you then have to also buy bottled ink or the thing is useless!

How will students ever learn capitalism?

[WJM]

There is a lot of modern c/c fountain pens out there with the converter not included. Judge this as you will but it really shouldn't be a big surprise... 

[Estycollector]

3 hours ago, WJM said:

Richard Binder: "Given that you can buy a real Aerometric 51 in really good shape for half the price why would you blow your money on this new thing?"

 

Given that logic why does anyone cares for making fountain pens at all today, if we can all just buy vintage ones.  

 

I could agree with that if this new 51 was a limited edition aimed at collectors - but it clearly isn't, especially the standard steel nib version.  

Mr. Binder's comments must be taken in context and relative cost,  not new vs vintage.  Plently of us love and use our Lamy Al Star and Vistas that are new while also enjoying our vintage Parkers. If Lamy would discontinue the Safari and reintroduce one in 20 years at twice the price of a used one  with little resemblance to the former and still insist in calling it by the same name, this, IMHO, is the context of RIchard's evaluation. 

[Estycollector]

45 minutes ago, Glenn-SC said:

Mein Gott!
Let's all go storming over to the Lamy Forum and complain that the Safari doesn't come with a converter!!!

What is Lamy thinking?

Don't they know that every basic fountain pen has to come with a converter so you then have to also buy bottled ink or the thing is useless!

How will students ever learn capitalism?

When I first got into the Lamy pens, had it not been for this forum, I would not have even known a converter was available. 

[TheRedBeard]

5 hours ago, corniche said:

 

Thank you, Red Beard.

 

Well, I've been so informed that my teal 51 has been checked through the Phoenix post office and is enroute to me. Sufficed to say, I'm beginning to salivate like Pavlov's dogs.

 

- Sean 

 

Sean, I perfectly understand :)

While waiting for release of this "new" P51, I have already bough Parker 100 some time ago (and I started liking it :) ), and yesterday got a nice uninked P61 in near mint condition.

... and now considering to buy a couple more P51s :)

... and started noticing one "cruel" thought appearing in my head: "May be I should cancel my pre-order for this "new" P51?"

 

[TheRedBeard]

Why is it so much fuss around converter or no converter?

I have no doubts every pen collector or long-time user has got a few unused Parker converters at home..

I've been using Parker cartridges for for the most of my writing needs for many years, and only now facing a need to use bottled ink because I found Parker Quink Green cartridges discontinued (last time I used them almost 20 years ago...), so realised that decent green ink were only available in bottles...

[Aysedasi]

1 hour ago, Glenn-SC said:

Mein Gott!
Let's all go storming over to the Lamy Forum and complain that the Safari doesn't come with a converter!!!

What is Lamy thinking?

Don't they know that every basic fountain pen has to come with a converter so you then have to also buy bottled ink or the thing is useless!

How will students ever learn capitalism?

 

So this P51 is a 'basic' fountain pen like a budget Lamy?  Does it come in a bubble pack with a hanging cut out for the local high street store?

[Glenn-SC]

In the US the Safaris come in cardboard boxes, at least mine have.

But the Lamy converter only costs about $6 here, surely LAMY could include one in the cost of the pen.

What, even more expensive Lamys, like the Aion, Scala, and the Studio ($80 to $180) don't come with a converter?

 

So apparently Lamy doesn't feel that basic to non-basic FPs should come with a converter either.

(Their "over $300 FPs do appear to come with "free" converters.)

[Estycollector]

No one is fussing, just observing that a new $200 historic pen lacks the necessary equipment to be able to use ink from a bottle. 
 

Given that Parker sells ink in a bottle, seems intuitive to include one . 

[Glenn-SC]

6 minutes ago, Estycollector said:

Given that Parker sells ink in a bottle, seems intuitive to include one . 

Just about every FP manufacturer "sells ink in a bottle", including my example of Lamy above.

 

So it would seem intuitive that every FP manufacturer would include a converter with their FPs. 

 

But they don't.

 

[WJM]

Except the Chinese ones. I've yet to see a Chinese c/c pen which doesn't come with a converter included. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Estycollector]

12 minutes ago, WJM said:

Except the Chinese ones. I've yet to see a Chinese c/c pen which doesn't come with a converter included. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And some don’t need a converter just like the original. 😂🤣

[TheRedBeard]

31 minutes ago, Estycollector said:

No one is fussing, just observing that a new $200 historic pen lacks the necessary equipment to be able to use ink from a bottle. 
 

Given that Parker sells ink in a bottle, seems intuitive to include one . 

This remark would be absolutely right if we dealt with a genuine pen manufacturer as Parker was before 2000...

But what should one expect from Newell, just a mere rubbish bins manufacturer??...

 

[TheRedBeard]

1 hour ago, Aysedasi said:

 

So this P51 is a 'basic' fountain pen like a budget Lamy?  Does it come in a bubble pack with a hanging cut out for the local high street store?

On the video recntly posted by @Heinkle on another thread it comes in a grey cardboard box similar to the one of Parker 88s in 1988-1990.

[Aysedasi]

9 minutes ago, TheRedBeard said:

On the video recntly posted by @Heinkle on another thread it comes in a grey cardboard box similar to the one of Parker 88s in 1988-1990.

 

Walk into any local Rymans or Smiths in the UK and you'll see Safaris hanging on the hooks, bubbled and cardboard backed.....

[TheRedBeard]

3 minutes ago, Aysedasi said:

 

Walk into any local Rymans or Smiths in the UK and you'll see Safaris hanging on the hooks, bubbled and cardboard backed.....

It does not matter for me as I use Parkers only :)

[Aysedasi]

Just now, TheRedBeard said:

It does not matter for me as I use Parkers only

 

Sorry, it's just that a comparison seemed to be being made between moderately expensive Parkers and budget Lamys (although that has now been clarified).  

 

I think I'm bored with this now...... 

[Heinkle]

I love that this thread has, over 31 pages, philosophically delved into the nature of the "Parker 51".