Parker 51 Comeback 2020?

[Karmachanic]

The official Parker 51 Comeback soundtrack

[TheRedBeard]

8 minutes ago, Paganini said:

 

Is that a *real* Parker 51 clone?

 

(Among other things, generally regarded as improvements over the original design, 601s have an ink window, and, more recent versions, the vacumatic diaphragm filling system was upgraded to a what Chris Rapp calls a "piston draw" system.)

 

Before they revamped the design a few years ago, most of the lower-end Parker pens (Beta, Jotter, Vector, IM, Urban) were the "same pen" in the sense they they used the same internal hardware. Nibs feeds and converters were all freely swappable among them. The new P51 seems to be in that family. I suppose the gold nib drives the price up a bit, but it's awfully hard to come up with reasons to spend $200-$300 on this pen when you can get the same aesthetic for $8 from the Jinhao 85, or the same writing experience from an old Vector for $20. 

 

Some time ago on this thread we already had a discussion why some people, who buy genuine vintage Parkers, also buy cheap Chinese rubbish  

 

[Paganini]

48 minutes ago, TheRedBeard said:

 

Some time ago on this thread we already had a discussion why some people, who buy genuine vintage Parkers, also buy cheap Chinese rubbish  

 

There's often (but not always) a broad gulf between "inexpensive" and "low quality." 

[Estycollector]

1 hour ago, Paganini said:

There's often (but not always) a broad gulf between "inexpensive" and "low quality." 

Very true. At least for me the WS 601 is anything but “rubbish”. 
 

The LAMY Vista and Al-Star are about the same price as the Flighter 601 and comparable quality as least with my experience. 

[Heinkle]

4 hours ago, Estycollector said:

I stopped collecting Esterbrooks after 1955. For me, it is not what is real or not, but I do not prefer the later changes to the brand . In the same way, I only want early 51's, but that does not mean the aerometic isn't a real 51, its just my preference. I do however, prefer the aerometric 21's.  Original is important to me as a collector and user, but others have their own preference which is wonderful. 

 

How did you spend 1956?

[Heinkle]

24 minutes ago, Estycollector said:

Very true. At least for me the WS 601 is anything but “rubbish”. 
 

The LAMY Vista and Al-Star are about the same price as the Flighter 601 and comparable quality as least with my experience. 

 

I like my 601 a lot but the nib is very fine and there don't seem to be nib options. 

[Estycollector]

42 minutes ago, Heinkle said:

 

I like my 601 a lot but the nib is very fine and there don't seem to be nib options. 

That would be true for the original as well. Although you might be able to buy a different type, they would add to the expense. 
 

I’ve noticed also that what makes the most difference for me is the paper type.

[AL01]

4 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

The official Parker 51 Comeback soundtrack

 

 Nice, but I thought of a better one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHk5KFy3-rE

 

[Estycollector]

Before I purchased my first WS 601, I read this person's blog. It has information germaine to this discussion and explains the Chinese/Parker past relationship and now that relationship resulted in the advent of the many 51 clones. 

A Vintage Gateway? Wing Sung 601 "Vacumatic" Filler — The Gentleman Stationer

[corniche]

9 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

The official Parker 51 Comeback soundtrack

 

Then there's this; which pretty much sums it up:

 

 

- Sean 

[Jerome Tarshis]

7 hours ago, Estycollector said:

Before I purchased my first WS 601, I read this person's blog. It has information germaine to this discussion and explains the Chinese/Parker past relationship and now that relationship resulted in the advent of the many 51 clones. 

A Vintage Gateway? Wing Sung 601 "Vacumatic" Filler — The Gentleman Stationer

 

One may read that "the conventionally accepted story" is that the Communist government nationalized a Parker factory. That was perhaps an inadvertent error. "The mistakenly accepted (by some) story" strikes me as more accurate. To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence that Parker ever manufactured the 51 in China. And there would be evidence if it were true, because Parker was a publicly traded company in the middle of the 20th century and gave the locations of its factories in its required annual filing of information with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

 

As for why Parker never manufactured the 51 in China, the history of China in general and Shanghai in particular during the 1940s would be rather strongly suggestive.

[FarmBoy]

17 hours ago, TheRedBeard said:

In my humble opinion, REAL Parker ended in 2010 after closing down a factory in Newhaven...

One might say it ended when Arrow Park in Janesville closed.

[FarmBoy]

7 hours ago, Estycollector said:

Before I purchased my first WS 601, I read this person's blog. It has information germaine to this discussion and explains the Chinese/Parker past relationship and now that relationship resulted in the advent of the many 51 clones. 

A Vintage Gateway? Wing Sung 601 "Vacumatic" Filler — The Gentleman Stationer

That blog has nothing germane to the discussion, there was not relationship between Parker and a Chinese pen company.

I don't know the author but he/she should remove that BS or provide a roll of toilet paper instead of dropping a cookie on my computer.

[WJM]

The story of nationalising Shangai Parker is rather apocryphal. It sounds kinda plausible but I haven't ever seen any evidence to support it. 

 

In fact Hero was founded in 1931. I assume they were nationalised when the communists took over - duh, they're communists - but whether Parker was anywhere near it's doubtful. They likely just stated making hooded nib pens, when the 51 arrived on the scene, because why not. 

 

It should be reminded that 51 was also an inspiration for many western manufacturers who made hooded or semi-hooded nib pens. I can't remember the model name but I've seen photos of some vintage Waterman which was as much a 51 knock off as many of the Chinese ones. 

[TheRedBeard]

3 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

One might say it ended when Arrow Park in Janesville closed.

I agree, no argument :)

In my later post I clearly stated that ".... I consider Newhaven factory is a second genuine Parker location, ...."

Besides, for some reasons I thought Janesville factory was closed a bit earlier...

[TheRedBeard]

3 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

That blog has nothing germane to the discussion, there was not relationship between Parker and a Chinese pen company.

I don't know the author but he/she should remove that BS or provide a roll of toilet paper instead of dropping a cookie on my computer.

+1 :)

[corniche]

4 hours ago, WJM said:

The story of nationalising Shangai Parker is rather apocryphal. It sounds kinda plausible but I haven't ever seen any evidence to support it. 

 

In fact Hero was founded in 1931. I assume they were nationalised when the communists took over - duh, they're communists - but whether Parker was anywhere near it's doubtful. They likely just stated making hooded nib pens, when the 51 arrived on the scene, because why not. 

 

It should be reminded that 51 was also an inspiration for many western manufacturers who made hooded or semi-hooded nib pens. I can't remember the model name but I've seen photos of some vintage Waterman which was as much a 51 knock off as many of the Chinese ones. 

 

Hi WJM,

 

This quote is attributed to Mao; having been said shortly before (or after) the 1949 revolution:

 

"Capitalist oppressors of the masses will have their property confiscated by the People's Liberation Army, as they are running dog imperialist lackeys, for crimes against the Free People of China. Those protesting will be arrested, tried for their counter-revolutionary activities and shot when convicted. The cost of the bullet will be billed to their families..."  - Mao Tse-tung

 

 

- Sean 

[WJM]

Right....

 

Could you please explain the point you're trying to make or support by posting this quote?

[corniche]

7 minutes ago, WJM said:

Right....

 

Could you please explain the point you're trying to make or support by posting this quote?

 

Hi WJM,

 

You expressed doubts that Parker was nationalized by the post-1949 Chinese government, ("It sounds kinda plausible but I haven't ever seen any evidence to support it."); if that quotation does not address your doubts, then you're in need of more assistance than I can invest the time to provide. 

 

- Sean 

[Jerome Tarshis]

11 minutes ago, corniche said:

 

Hi WJM,

 

You expressed doubts that Parker was nationalized by the post-1949 Chinese government, ("It sounds kinda plausible but I haven't ever seen any evidence to support it."); if that quotation does not address your doubts, then you're in need of more assistance than I can invest the time to provide. 

 

- Sean 

 

This is funny and sad. The quotation does not say that the Chinese government nationalized a Parker plant, does it? Well, does it?

 

There's a good reason for that. The Chinese didn't. That is because there was no Parker plant. On this subject I might add that I have read not the complete works of Mao Tse-tung, but Parker's filings with the SEC for the appropriate years.