Parker 51 Comeback 2020?

[Flounder]

Couldn't care less about the filling system, but it's pretty hard to swallow the 'improvements' being expounded.

 

What can I say? I just don't believe they went with a threaded cap because it seals better than the slip cap models. I do believe that it's cheaper to make and has far fewer components. I'd be mildly suprised if the entire thing wasn't press fitted together.

 

The clip is apparently better because it's longer (than which of the many versions?) , but again I think the primary reason it looks the way it does is because it is cheaper to make something that indistinct.

 

That band on the section looks like a repair!! Obviously there so the plastic hood takes less stress if the pen is flexed in a pocket or bag.

 

Okay that's it out of my system. I recognise the need for building to a price, but I don't accept this whole 'big improvements' reasoning. Sorry!

[WJM]

Better sealing is a lousy explanation indeed, especially that the original 51 was famous for that it didn't dry out. 

 

But is it really cheaper to make a threaded cap? I doubt it. Somehow all cheaper Parkers have slip-on caps. I think recently they made a twist cap Premier (?) but I remember that not so long ago the only Parker pen with a twist cap was the Duofold - the highest and most expensive if their models. 

[TheRedBeard]

8 minutes ago, WJM said:

Better sealing is a lousy explanation indeed, especially that the original 51 was famous for that it didn't dry out. 

 

But is it really cheaper to make a threaded cap? I doubt it. Somehow all cheaper Parkers have slip-on caps. I think recently they made a twist cap Premier (?) but I remember that not so long ago the only Parker pen with a twist cap was the Duofold - the highest and most expensive if their models. 

If one approaches this slip-on vs thread cap matter with a very cold mind it becomes obvious to him that slip-on solution is more expensive as it requires better technological/engineering solution and, importantly, better and more expensive materials. 

 

Just a quick small example from genuine Parker (not Newell) era: clutch ring inside a cap of a pretty decent (though underrated) Parker 88 (later Rialto) was prone to quick wear during heavy use, so the cap was no longer kept firmly on a nib section...

 

Unfortunately, now we live in an era of cheaper materials usage in consumer products everywhere... :( 

 

[ZeroDukE]

18 minutes ago, WJM said:

 I think recently they made a twist cap Premier (?) but I remember that not so long ago the only Parker pen with a twist cap was the Duofold - the highest and most expensive if their models. 

Yes, you are right.  The series 2 of the last Parker Premier went threaded cap.  And the clip was changed too.  Some people think that the new 51 will replace the Premier.

[corniche]

Hi all,

 

In regards to threaded caps:

I think a couple points should be pointed out.

 

1. The 51 was introduced during the zenith of the streamlining era, when a slip cap was considered "up to the minute." (Pens prior to the 51 typically used threaded caps). It was something new and fresh - and it served a practical concern - easy cap removal/replacement. 

 

2. I think Parker is swinging the pendulum back to threaded caps on the 51 because "TODAY'S" mindset favors them. A threaded cap is seen more as a hallmark of quality today - think Mont Blanc; Pelikan, etc. Slip caps make a lot of people think of common OTC pens... like a Bic Stic.

 

3. Pens that advertise resistance to drying out; such as Platinum's SlipnSeal technology, Esterbrook's Estie, etc., typically use threaded caps.

 

- Sean 

[Heinkle]

Only problem is that the tip of the cap I believe is open (there is a gap around the jewell), so suspect it won’t be preventing any drying out 

[corniche]

37 minutes ago, Heinkle said:

Only problem is that the tip of the cap I believe is open (there is a gap around the jewell), so suspect it won’t be preventing any drying out 

 

Hi Heinkle,

 

AFAIK, Parker is not making that claim with the new 51; I was simply making an observation regarding threaded caps in general. In other words, most, if not all, of the pens that advertise a high resistance to drying out, use threaded caps.

 

- Sean 

[FarmBoy]

1 hour ago, corniche said:

...

 

2. I think Parker is swinging the pendulum back to threaded caps on the 51 because "TODAY'S" mindset favors them. A threaded cap is seen more as a hallmark of quality today - think Mont Blanc; Pelikan, etc. Slip caps make a lot of people think of common OTC pens... like a Bic Stic.

 

...

 

- Sean 

Do you know some one in marketing or were you in the test market focus group?

 

Generally the masses don't like slip caps.  My favorite comment is 'they feel cheap'.

[corniche]

1 minute ago, FarmBoy said:

Do you know some one in marketing or were you in the test market focus group?

 

Generally the masses don't like slip caps.  My favorite comment is 'they feel cheap'.

 

 

Hi FarmBoy, et al,

 

1. No, I just haven't seen nor read anywhere, that Parker was claiming the new 51 is resistant to drying out, such as Platinum does with select pens.

 

 

2. Exactly. That's essentially what I said above.

 

 

- Sean 

[Glenn-SC]

1 hour ago, Heinkle said:

Only problem is that the tip of the cap I believe is open (there is a gap around the jewell), so suspect it won’t be preventing any drying out 

Most FP caps have an inner cap (the original "51" did) that seals against the section to prevent drying of the ink.

The "gap" around the jewel would only let air access to the space between the inner and outer caps, and not to the ink in the nib and feed.

[AL01]

 

 Whadif' they are too cheap to make a clutch mechanism for the new 51?

 

 The motivations for such a change may be twofold...

 

 Maybe customer preferences are just a happy consequence in this specific case?

 

 (Like corporations cutting on plastic usage, etc?)

[corniche]

18 minutes ago, AL01 said:

 

 Whadif' they are too cheap to make a clutch mechanism for the new 51?

 

Hi AL01,

 

IDK. With today's technology and engineering; I'm not even sure if one format varies that much in cost from the other.  

 

TBH, though, I don't mind not having the clutch cap; I'm tired of all the rub mark's on my 21/51/61 sections.

 

- Sean 

[vicpen123]

Parker "51", 45, 75, Sonnet and Premier (series 1) all had slip caps that worked very well.

 

Parker modern Duofolds s well as UK Duofolds had screw on caps. So do many other pen brands so is it only Parker that mastered the art of slip caps?

 

Why the difference? In terms of performance and drying out I guess not much. If its style or fashion, then that's not much of an answer.

 

At least the Parker screw on cap pens have avoided the dreaded sharp ridge at the location of the threads (cf Pilot Metropolitan) that makes some pens uncomfortable to use.

[ZeroDukE]

8 hours ago, corniche said:

 

TBH, though, I don't mind not having the clutch cap; I'm tired of all the rub mark's on my 21/51/61 sections.

 

- Sean 

Me too.  I don't like those marks at all.

[WJM]

16 hours ago, TheRedBeard said:

If one approaches this slip-on vs thread cap matter with a very cold mind it becomes obvious to him that slip-on solution is more expensive as it requires better technological/engineering solution and, importantly, better and more expensive materials. 

 

Just a quick small example from genuine Parker (not Newell) era: clutch ring inside a cap of a pretty decent (though underrated) Parker 88 (later Rialto) was prone to quick wear during heavy use, so the cap was no longer kept firmly on a nib section...

 

Unfortunately, now we live in an era of cheaper materials usage in consumer products everywhere... :( 

 

 

Then how is that none of Parker cheaper models for hears have been having threaded caps - 45, Frontier, IM, Urban, Jotter, Vector - as it apparently would have been cheaper? 

 

Or the "click" caps actually are cheaper than slip-on caps?

[TheRedBeard]

8 minutes ago, WJM said:

 

Then how is that none of Parker cheaper models for hears have been having threaded caps - 45, Frontier, IM, Urban, Jotter, Vector - as it apparently would have been cheaper? 

 

Or the "click" caps actually are cheaper than slip-on caps?

Two points to remember:

1. yes, you are right that "click" caps are some way easier and cheaper in manufacturing as they are less demanding to specific material properties and qualities than slip-on ones. 

2. Genius Parker design and then technology to manufacture pens with slip-on caps. As far as I remember the only serious setback was with caps of Parker 61 MkIII as the caps might produce wera marks quicker and damage that small dart/arrow on the hood.

 

However, as some other FPN members rightly mentioned, for marketing purposes screw caps are considered as a feature of more luxury products :)

 

 

[Flounder]

The majority of snap caps are even cheaper than thread forming, the inner cap has a shallow depression which flexes as a ridge at the end of the section passes into it. The strength of the capping action eventually fails as the plastic goes through enough cycles.

 

But to return to this new 51 - if Parker are so keen to disassociate from "cheap" slip cap pens - why are they calling it a 51 and not an Imperial?

 

No, I call shenanigans. SHENANIGANS!

[Estycollector]

To everyone’s dismay, I refer again to the Wing Sung 601 plastic or metal. Both seat well closed or posted. Not bad for a $20 pen. 

[TheRedBeard]

11 minutes ago, Estycollector said:

To everyone’s dismay, I refer again to the Wing Sung 601 plastic or metal. Both seat well closed or posted. Not bad for a $20 pen. 

As I already mentioned before on this thread, Chinese are perfect in stealing someone's genius designs/solutions and then offer that cheap

At least, it works for pens...

[WJM]

40 minutes ago, Flounder said:

But to return to this new 51 - if Parker are so keen to disassociate from "cheap" slip cap pens - why are they calling it a 51 and not an Imperial?

 

Because Sheaffer would be Cross.

 

*ba-dum-tsss*

 

Although I do believe Parker did use the  name "Imperial" in their marketing in the past. But I don't think new 51 is supposed to be a high-end pen, rather medium segment.

 

 

6 minutes ago, TheRedBeard said:

As I already mentioned before on this thread, Chinese are perfect in stealing someone's genius designs/solutions and then offer that cheap

At least, it works for pens...

 

....

 

<Holds back from making an actual comment to avoid provoking a sh**storm over intellectual property issues.>