Parker 51 Comeback 2020?

[NumberSix]

6 minutes ago, PandP said:

 

I have heard the octanium name a few times. Are octanium nibs something special? I am not familiar with them.

 

 

It's basically a steel nib. Parker touted it as some kind of 8-metal blend. The 51 Special and 21 octanium nibs are nice to use. 

[Estycollector]

9 hours ago, PandP said:

 

I have heard the octanium name a few times. Are octanium nibs something special? I am not familiar with them.

 

Per a Parker brochure introducing this nib material on the Parker 51 model, Octanium is an alloy composed of eight different metals, each chosen for certain attributes:

Strength and hardness:

40% Cobalt

15% Nickel

20% Chromium

High resilience:

7% Molybdenum

2% Manganese

15% Iron (approximately)

Additional strength against all stresses and climatic conditions:

0.04% Beryllium

0.15% Carbon

 

Octanium nib (parker75.com)

[TheRedBeard]

6 hours ago, Estycollector said:

Per a Parker brochure introducing this nib material on the Parker 51 model, Octanium is an alloy composed of eight different metals, each chosen for certain attributes:

Strength and hardness:

40% Cobalt

15% Nickel

20% Chromium

High resilience:

7% Molybdenum

2% Manganese

15% Iron (approximately)

Additional strength against all stresses and climatic conditions:

0.04% Beryllium

0.15% Carbon

 

Octanium nib (parker75.com)

Based on this composition I guess it should be pretty rigid...

If someone has any long-time experience of writing with such a nib?

It should be very expensive in manufacturing, too..

[welch]

10 minutes ago, TheRedBeard said:

Based on this composition I guess it should be pretty rigid...

If someone has any long-time experience of writing with such a nib?

It should be very expensive in manufacturing, too..

I have used a Parker 51 Special for about fifteen years. Good nib. It arrived from EBay with a feel that I like, and it hasn't changed. Feels just as nice as a full P-51 nib I got about the same time. They are my two favorite fountain pens.

 

All P-51 nibs were designed to be stiff. That was, apparently, what the market wanted back when the fountain pen and the wood pencil were the preferred "personal writing instruments". Take a look at the handwriting texts, such as Palmer or Zaner; it is clear that people were taught "business writing", at least in US public schools. (That's where I learned, more than 60 years ago). The goal is a handwriting that is quick to write and legible to a reader. No fancy flourishes.

 

Gold or steel does not determine whether a nib is stiff or soft or flexible. That depends on the shape of the nib. A P-51 nib is designed like a slice of tubing, fitting under a hood that gives little room to flex even if the nib had been softer. 

[sandy101]

You needed a hard nib to be able to deal with carbon copies. 

 

A soft nib would not show through the carbon - it did not make a big enough impression to go through the layers. 

[TheRedBeard]

9 minutes ago, welch said:

I have used a Parker 51 Special for about fifteen years. Good nib. It arrived from EBay with a feel that I like, and it hasn't changed. Feels just as nice as a full P-51 nib I got about the same time. They are my two favorite fountain pens.

 

All P-51 nibs were designed to be stiff. That was, apparently, what the market wanted back when the fountain pen and the wood pencil were the preferred "personal writing instruments". Take a look at the handwriting texts, such as Palmer or Zaner; it is clear that people were taught "business writing", at least in US public schools. (That's where I learned, more than 60 years ago). The goal is a handwriting that is quick to write and legible to a reader. No fancy flourishes.

 

Gold or steel does not determine whether a nib is stiff or soft or flexible. That depends on the shape of the nib. A P-51 nib is designed like a slice of tubing, fitting under a hood that gives little room to flex even if the nib had been softer. 

Thank you very much, Welch.

Very useful explanation :)

I'm only on my way to start using P51s (though I've got a few ones...).

[Estycollector]

42 minutes ago, TheRedBeard said:

Based on this composition I guess it should be pretty rigid...

If someone has any long-time experience of writing with such a nib?

It should be very expensive in manufacturing, too..

It’s on my Parker 21 and writes as smooth as any other pen in my collection using Waterman inks.

[TheRedBeard]

1 hour ago, Estycollector said:

It’s on my Parker 21 and writes as smooth as any other pen in my collection using Waterman inks.

Thanks, Estycollector.

Useful to know.

[corniche]

Hi all,

 

As Welch said, all 51 nibs were stiff; however, keep in mind, this was by default... who ever heard of a hooded flex nib?? 

 

Back then, as now, there was a market for flex nibs... and Parker offered them... as did Waterman, Esterbrook, etc.

 

See:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Esterbrook-Durachrome-Renew-Point-9788-Flexible-Medium-New-Old-Stock-Vintage-/373257063977

 

 

- Sean 

[FarmBoy]

On 1/18/2021 at 6:23 PM, PandP said:

 

I have heard the octanium name a few times. Are octanium nibs something special? I am not familiar with them.

 

I recall seeing a short note about Octanium in the Pennant not that long ago. 

[kazoolaw]

Uncorrobated memory:  Octanium was a substitute for gold in 51 nibs.

 

a search in FPN indicates they were used in 51 Specials.

[Jerome Tarshis]

9 hours ago, kazoolaw said:

Uncorrobated memory:  Octanium was a substitute for gold in 51 nibs.

 

a search in FPN indicates they were used in 51 Specials.

 

Octanium was not a substitute for gold in the sense that gold was unobtainable and Parker developed an alloy so it could manufacture the 51. The 51 was introduced with gold nibs and continued to be manufactured with gold nibs all through World War II and the run of the 51 until the 1970s, when the 51 was discontinued. 

 

Octanium was developed for less expensive pens, and was used on the 21 and the 41 and the 21 Super and the 51 Special. Also on some 45s, IIRC; the original selling point of the 45 was that it had a 14K gold nib. 

[FarmBoy]

Octanium wasn’t developed by Parker it was purchased. It is Elgiloy and is still produced today. 

[corgicoupe]

Adding another piece of trivial information: It was originally meant for mechanical watch springs, probably by or for the Elgin Watch Company

[AL01]

 

 According to the super-reliable King of all sources Wikipedia, Elgiloy was also used in the SR-71 Blackbird!

[Estycollector]

Elinvar Hairspring???

[NumberSix]

I just received a Jinhao 85 from China, and I am guessing that the new 51 will be very close to this pen. C/C, screw cap - probably the same weight and size. 

 

If so, I am okay with it. It makes me look forward to my preorder, hoping the medium nib is a decent writer. 

[OCArt]

I was thinking about ordering a Jinhao but know I'd always be trying to yank the cap off-- of course it would be the same problem with the new 51. Guess I'll stick to vintage on both!

[Jerome Tarshis]

22 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

Octanium wasn’t developed by Parker it was purchased. It is Elgiloy and is still produced today. 

 

Good point. I may have known this thirty years ago, but it's flown out of my head. I do know perfectly well that Microsoft didn't develop MS-DOS ab ovo (let's hear it for Gary Kildall), and the fact that I know one thing and not the other may be yet another indication of The Decline of Analogue.

[TheRedBeard]

8 hours ago, NumberSix said:

I just received a Jinhao 85 from China, and I am guessing that the new 51 will be very close to this pen. C/C, screw cap - probably the same weight and size. 

 

If so, I am okay with it. It makes me look forward to my preorder, hoping the medium nib is a decent writer. 

May I ask a silly humble question: why do the people, who use genuine Parker pens, buy cheap Chinese stuff?

It is just for my understanding...

Thank you.