Which Royal Blue Ink To Get?

[Bookman]

Interesting that you bring this up. Can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by distractions while note taking?

 

I thought black being the darkest shade should be less distracting than RB. The reason I want RB is because it makes the text stand-out and aids in comprehension than other shades. Red is too bright for my tastes.

Thanks, I’ll look this one up too. When you say longevity how many years do you have in mind? I’d like to have the ink be clearly legible, if a little faded, at least 15 years from now. After that point I can scan my writing and keep it in my records.

 

That’s also the reason I am interested in moisture/water resistance. Humidity is an enemy of the ink as well as the notebook paper.

What exactly does exposure to sunlight mean? That the sun rays are directly falling on the notebook from a window? Or, even indirect sunlight counts?

And, what is the best way to be storing a notebook that one wants to preserve over the long run?

Many others have recommended the Visconti and I’ll definitely give it a serious look. In fact, I am choosing between Visconti, Aurora, Diamine, Waterman, Iroshizuku Asa-gao.

 

Distractions while note-taking: feathering would distract me; so would a gushing ink; so would an ink so dry it made pushing the nib across the page a bit of a chore; so would an ink that quickly dried in the nib; so would an ink that took several minutes to dry on the page.

 

Exposure to sunlight: I meant direct exposure and close indirect exposure. But any exposure to sunlight, even from across a typical bedroom in a modern home, could cause some loss of readability over an extended period of time. Ever notice new books on store shelves near a window? The foxing of the pages doesn't just occur in direct sunlight. I don't know positively where I would draw the red line if you had the window shades up to light the room. Direct sunlight on opened pages for a summer day in Cairo or Atlanta or Las Vegas might obliterate most writings with most inks. A journal closed and across the room in most places would be better than any opened journal anywhere near a window. My general rule is: Take no chances. Some sunlight is worse than none. My journals are kept closed and properly shelved across the room (12 feet) from the window, and all the writings with washable inks remain perfectly readable after 9 or 10 years.

 

Best storage method: in a room lit only by lamp, stored upright on a shelf, rather tightly enclosed on both sides by a shelf full of other volumes. But in a room lit by window-sunlight, my writings have survived 10 years, probably because I've adhered to the other conditions and also kept them against the wall opposite my office window.

 

Longevity: I have no litmus test for longevity. But I agree with txomsy, that Montblanc Permanent Blue is an ink that meets most of your requirements. It's not royal blue but dark blue, yet it is nevertheless a blue with a tinge of purple. I withdraw my recommendation of GvFC Cobalt Blue in MBPB's favor.

 

Visconti Blue: One more thing. When I looked at my 9-year-old Visconti Blue writings two days ago, I initially thought I was looking at Baystate Blue. The ink was that eyepopping.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Bookman

[jchch1950]

Hard to go wrong with Aurora Blue.

+1.

[Says]

Visconti blue... waterman serenity blue or any of the three iroshizuku blues -- kon peki, ama iro or asa gao. (my personal favs)

+ 1 on Asa Gao.

besides a nice colour, it is very well behaved.

[Says]

Visconti blue is a very nice blue that you would probably like. Behaves well on paper too. Unfortunately, one drop of water would obliterate it

[AMlines]

Distractions while note-taking: feathering would distract me; so would a gushing ink; so would an ink so dry it made pushing the nib across the page a bit of a chore; so would an ink that quickly dried in the nib; so would an ink that took several minutes to dry on the page.

Yes, I see what you mean. Undoubtedly, these will be issue for me too. As of now, I am ordering samples of Aurora Blue, Visconti, Pilot Namiki, and now I'll try and see if I can get hold of a sample of MontBlanc Blue.

 

Don't permanent inks damage the pen in some way? I know they need more maintenance than usual.

 

Exposure to sunlight: I meant direct exposure and close indirect exposure. But any exposure to sunlight, even from across a typical bedroom in a modern home, could cause some loss of readability over an extended period of time. Ever notice new books on store shelves near a window? The foxing of the pages doesn't just occur in direct sunlight. I don't know positively where I would draw the red line if you had the window shades up to light the room. Direct sunlight on opened pages for a summer day in Cairo or Atlanta or Las Vegas might obliterate most writings with most inks. A journal closed and across the room in most places would be better than any opened journal anywhere near a window. My general rule is: Take no chances. Some sunlight is worse than none. My journals are kept closed and properly shelved across the room (12 feet) from the window, and all the writings with washable inks remain perfectly readable after 9 or 10 years.

Thanks, I get what you're saying and will take heed of your advice. In any case the kind of note taking I have in mind will be done in shaded and cool rooms.

 

But, this also means that for any writing to be done on-the-fly such as for journalist work or during any fieldwork research, one should look to gel pens as better options?

 

Visconti Blue: One more thing. When I looked at my 9-year-old Visconti Blue writings two days ago, I initially thought I was looking at Baystate Blue. The ink was that eyepopping.

Good to hear that. I am looking forward to trying out the samples!

 

Since I will have multiple samples of blue, do you think I should be cleaning the converter every time I change inks?

 

Thanks!

[Honeybadgers]

I don't usually like royal blues, but Hero makes a FANTASTIC one with lots of shading and sheen that's well behaved and only about $3 a bottle, It's just called "Hero Dark Blue"

 

The hero coffee is also a great, well behaved brown, as is the black (which is wet, neutral and ultra dark) and the regular blue is a sheen monster.

 

They're all also quite water resistant.

[welch]

If you are new to fountain pens, start with:

 

- Waterman Serenity Blue

- Diamine Sapphire Blue

- Aurora Blue

- Pelikan Royal Blue

 

There is a reason why those four have been mentioned so often: all of them will last as long as anyone needs, if handled reasonably. (That is, save the writings to a notebook or a folder, put the folder or notebook away). All will wash off your hands and wash out of your clothing. They are "well-behaved" inks.

 

Worry about super-permanent inks later, when you can also try inks that imitate day-glo colors or inks that change shades as they dry.

[DonM]

In my experience Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue fades and starts to look a bit washed out quite quickly. It will still be readable, but faded. Is your experience different?

 

I had never noticed this before you mentioned it. I don't have this experience on good paper, but oddly I did notice this effect when I jotted down a shopping list on a cheap post-it style note (from Daytimers). I need to do some more research, but at the moment I'm guessing that there is some type of acid present in that paper causing the fading. If this happens to you, maybe try different paper.

[sansenri]

Some good recommendations already if you want a Royal blue

In my opinion

Montblanc royal blue, quite intense and does not fade

Aurora blue

Visconti blue silimar to Aurora possibly a tad darker

Pelikan 4001 royal blue, it does fade slightly but can shade rather well

Kaweco blue

(I do love Waterman Serenity/Florida but do not consider it a royal blue, Diamine imperial is far too purplish)

[Honeybadgers]

Here's the link to the hero inks I mentioned if anyone is interested (the quality on them is really superb. The boxes are (bleep) though and take up a ton of space, so storing them for display in the box is kinda not worth it) It goes on sale regularly but is currently, with shipping to the US, $8 for 40mL. And the quality is damn good.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32923620714.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.3195318aCWwjTN&algo_pvid=8edb1f9f-c3d8-40cc-9970-af552d4af2a9&algo_expid=8edb1f9f-c3d8-40cc-9970-af552d4af2a9-6&btsid=86a22bce-ca10-454d-9197-f349078dd673&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_53

Edited August 18, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[txomsy]

 

But, this also means that for any writing to be done on-the-fly such as for journalist work or during any fieldwork research, one should look to gel pens as better options?

 

Not necessarily. I've been taking notes in the field and writing on the fly with a fountain pen and permanent ink on little black notebooks for decades. I still have some dating from the '80s. The fluorescent marker has faded, the ink may be a bit lighter, but they read as good as the first day.

[Honeybadgers]

From a strictly utilitarian, IT MUST ALWAYS WRITE point of view, I have to cede that a fountain pen is not the best tool for the job.

 

As a paramedic, I always carried a fountain pen in my breast pocket, but the other pocket always had a sharpie and a fisher space pen. Because as long as the sharpie hadn't dried out (and they give you lots of warning before that happens) and the fisher cartridge wasn't near the end of its biblically long lifespan, those two products can be relied on to write anytime, anywhere, on anything. It's no longer considered good form to write a patient's vitals or triage status in blood on their forehead (not that I didn't have to do it anyways once or twice. But I've only taken part in a single true mass casualty incident before, when one of those amphibious "duck" military vehicles used on tours lost a brake line and swerved into a greyhound bus, killing 4 and causing pretty nightmarish injuries to about a dozen more. The fountain pen isn't the right tool for that kind of scene.)

 

So if you're not interested in the small hassle of refilling a pen while traveling, then yes, a ball or gel is going to be the best option.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[AMlines]

 

But, this also means that for any writing to be done on-the-fly such as for journalist work or during any fieldwork research, one should look to gel pens as better options?

 

Not necessarily. I've been taking notes in the field and writing on the fly with a fountain pen and permanent ink on little black notebooks for decades. I still have some dating from the '80s. The fluorescent marker has faded, the ink may be a bit lighter, but they read as good as the first day.

 

 

That's great. Which ink have you used?

 

While I've just ordered a few of the inks recommended here, I am interested in figuring out which permanent inks may work for me.

 

Did you use blue or black permanent inks? Is one better than the other? I've been hearing about permanent inks creating problems with converters and pens generally needing more maintenance. How has it been in your experience?

[Honeybadgers]

 

That's great. Which ink have you used?

 

While I've just ordered a few of the inks recommended here, I am interested in figuring out which permanent inks may work for me.

 

Did you use blue or black permanent inks? Is one better than the other? I've been hearing about permanent inks creating problems with converters and pens generally needing more maintenance. How has it been in your experience?

 

Pigmented inks, shimmer inks, and iron gall inks all require more maintenance. General permanent inks do not. Noodlers inks (and likely all other non-pigmented or iron gall inks) gain their permanence through chemically bonding to the cellulose fibers in the paper. Which is why on coated paper they're nowhere near as waterproof as pigmented inks, but do great on uncoated paper and god help you if you drop any on a cotton shirt or wooden table.

 

In general, blue inks do not maintain the UV resistance of black. I don't know of any truly permanent blues that aren't pigmented apart from Noodlers Liberty's elysium, and even then, LE will still slough off a lot of blue, which could kinda ruin a page unless you rinsed the whole thing off (though some of it does stay bonded to the paper)

 

Pilot blue black might fade if you leave it exposed to light, but it's fairly water resistant. But if you need true waterproof inks, black is kind of where you're stuck. Noodlers bulletproof black, on uncoated paper, will barely raise an eyebrow at water.

 

Noodlers warden black is even more intensely permanent.

 

But in general, if you're just writing in a notebook and not hanging the pages out in the sun, any decent ink with mild water resistance will do fine

 

If you do plan on leaving it out in the light, consider iron gall inks. They tend to laugh at UV light

 

Some inks are supersaturated, and this just makes them more tedious to fully flush out.

[Honeybadgers]

Here are some fade tests of various colors. As you can see, most inks don't care much about time and sunlight

 

 

 

 

 

[kestrel]

I wouldn't describe Baystate Blue as a royal blue, it's more like neon blue. I'd also not put it in any pen I cared about.

 

Jetpens have a good comparison of the blues, of these, I use Aurora Blue and Serenity Blue: both are excellent inks.

 

 

This should probably be in Inky Thoughts

I love the color and flow of Baystate Blue but it is not allowed to get close to any of my pens except the designated Baystate pens (a user grade Esterbrook J and a Noodler's Ahab). It stains everything it touches; pens, converters, sections, feeds, barrels, sinks, antique roll top desks, one of my cats, my fingers. Dilute bleach and some disinfecting wipes will remove the stains but they don't go near any of my pens, either. I still use BSB but with care.

 

That said, take a look at Monteverde Horizon Blue. I have tried it in three pens, two vintage and one modern, and it performed well in all three. Nice color, good behavior. Also Visconti blue.

[OCArt]

Honeybadgers, thank you so much for doing these fade tests and posting the results. I was surprised how the purple inks, as a generalization, tended to fade. Good to know.

Here are some fade tests of various colors. As you can see, most inks don't care much about time and sunlight

[AMlines]

Here are some fade tests of various colors. As you can see, most inks don't care much about time and sunlight

Thanks! Appreciate you putting up these screenshots.

While these look great, my time scale is considerably longer at 10-15 years. I wrote some notes on a good quality paper nearly 12 years ago with a Pilot gel pen. I've kept them out of direct light, but I would say they've been exposed to moisture and humidity.

Luckily for me, they're still quite readable and I am happy at having used that paper and pen combination when I did.

 

So, now I want to make sure the same holds true for FP inks!

[AMlines]

Pigmented inks, shimmer inks, and iron gall inks all require more maintenance. General permanent inks do not. Noodlers inks (and likely all other non-pigmented or iron gall inks) gain their permanence through chemically bonding to the cellulose fibers in the paper. Which is why on coated paper they're nowhere near as waterproof as pigmented inks, but do great on uncoated paper and god help you if you drop any on a cotton shirt or wooden table.

 

In general, blue inks do not maintain the UV resistance of black. I don't know of any truly permanent blues that aren't pigmented apart from Noodlers Liberty's elysium, and even then, LE will still slough off a lot of blue, which could kinda ruin a page unless you rinsed the whole thing off (though some of it does stay bonded to the paper)

 

Pilot blue black might fade if you leave it exposed to light, but it's fairly water resistant. But if you need true waterproof inks, black is kind of where you're stuck. Noodlers bulletproof black, on uncoated paper, will barely raise an eyebrow at water.

 

Noodlers warden black is even more intensely permanent.

 

But in general, if you're just writing in a notebook and not hanging the pages out in the sun, any decent ink with mild water resistance will do fine

 

If you do plan on leaving it out in the light, consider iron gall inks. They tend to laugh at UV light

 

Some inks are supersaturated, and this just makes them more tedious to fully flush out.

Thanks. It's useful to know, even if limiting, that I need to go to black ink if I want to ensure I can read my notes in a decade from now.

 

I think I'll just with the blue inks I've ordered and see how they perform in the short term. Then, depending on my requirements I'll see if I need to shift to black permanent ink. I wouldn't want to keep cleaning my FP, if I can help it And, the prospect of permanent ink ruining clothes, paper, or furniture is certainly something holding me back.

[Erik Dalton]

The list of inks you’ve settled on to start looks good. If you are concerned about field notes getting wet, and want some permanence to them, I would strongly recommend Pilot Blue Black. It’s waterproof but still easier to clean up than any permanent ink. It’s inexpensive and you can buy it in Large coke size bottles on Amazon. It can be fussy about the paper it likes. I’ve had it feather on me, but in order to get the waterproof / spill proof quality, i adjust my paper to the ink. It’s a great ink, not as color saturated as Aurora Blue, Visconti and the “Iro” inks, but it’s good to have a bottle of it in your ink cabinet.