Japanese Names Disambiguation?

[Intensity]

There are many Japanese pens and inks that are routinely referred to by a combination of their Japanese names and translated (in this case English) names. Some I have translated to a satisfactory degree for myself, and others still need more context.

 

If anyone here understands enough of the background language and history and could weigh in, this could be an interesting compilation.

 

For example:

 

Sailor Shikiori. Shikiori simply means Four Seasons. It used to be that ink line was called Sailor Jentle Four Seasons. Now everyone refers to the 20ml bottles as shikiori as if thats something new, though its not. Its understandable where the confusion arises when comparing the older 50ml bottle labels with the new 20ml labels: the new labels now have Shikiori written in Romanized Japanese, whereas before those who cant read Japanese simply glossed over Japanese characters.

 

Sailor Pro Gear Slim carries the name Sapporo. Presumably this refers to a large city of that name in Japan? Why are some of these pens called Sapporo, some Pro Gear Slim, and some have both names at once?

 

Pilot Namiki. Google translate tells me namiki is a Row of trees or Roadside tree. How does that tie into the Pilot naming scheme? Why are some Pilot goods just Pilot and others are Namiki, and still others are referred to as Namiki Pilot/Pilot Namiki?

 

Iroshizuku translates as color bud. I like that imagery, if so.

 

Nakaya translates as Inside - thats a confusing one. A mistranslation or lack of context?

 

Ive had more terms, but cant recall them now. Theyll come back to me eventually.

 

Please feel free to add yours.

 

Thanks for reading!

[OCArt]

Good to know, thanks for sharing.

[stan]

You are ascribing more to this than necessary.

 

Nakaya means business of the Nakata family. Nakata is the family name of the person that own's Platinum and Nakaya Pen Companies. Other examples are the big department store Takashimaya - Takashima -ya. Or, near me there is a ramen place Yamada-ya and a supermarket Niji-ya. Niji means rainbow and -ya store.

 

Pilot is still Pilot. Originally Namiki Manufacturing Company pilot was the brand name for their pens and was named after the founder Ryonosuku Namiki. The corporate name was changed to Pilot in 1938. It is not surprising they used the Namiki name on their famous makie pens. In the Pilot corporate brochure Namiki is only mentioned as the historical company and not as a current corporation. Namiki is their brand that is used for better quality makie pens and for overseas sales. BTW, all of the pens in the corporate brochure have Pilot nibs.

[Intensity]

You are ascribing more to this than necessary.

 

Nakaya means business of the Nakata family. Nakata is the family name of the person that own's Platinum and Nakaya Pen Companies. Other examples are the big department store Takashimaya - Takashima -ya. Or, near me there is a ramen place Yamada-ya and a supermarket Niji-ya. Niji means rainbow and -ya store.

 

Pilot is still Pilot. Originally Namiki Manufacturing Company pilot was the brand name for their pens and was named after the founder Ryonosuku Namiki. The corporate name was changed to Pilot in 1938. It is not surprising they used the Namiki name on their famous makie pens. In the Pilot corporate brochure Namiki is only mentioned as the historical company and not as a current corporation. Namiki is their brand that is used for better quality makie pens and for overseas sales. BTW, all of the pens in the corporate brochure have Pilot nibs.

 

It's just curiosity! Thank you for the historical context!

 

In regards to Namiki--it seems to be used liberally more than just for the high-end items. For example on standard inks:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Namiki-Standard-Fountain-69200/dp/B003X2XJHI/

https://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Fountain-Cartridge-Cartridges-69100/dp/B002G4DHGM/

 

Some pens were rebranded very recently, like apparently Namiki -> Pilot Falcon. In general the usage of Namiki/Pilot Namiki/Just Pilot both in marketing and in popular use is confusing.

[MartinPauli]

Sapporo is a word that derives from Ainu language "sat poro pet" meaning "Dry, Big River"

Edited July 13, 2019 by MartinPauli

[inkstainedruth]

You know, it could all just be marketing.

The Vanishing Point is call "Capless" outside of the US. The European version of the Metropolitan is called the MR (and you have to know which you have because they take different converters. I believe that "iro" means "color".

Does it really matter in the long run, as long as someone gets the pen or ink they want?

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Intensity]

I have seen the Vanishing Point referred to as VP Capless in Japan.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Intensity

[Olya]

To add to the previous posts:

 

Part of it is definitely marketing, eg "Pilot" and "Namiki" are used differently in different markets. Eg Pilot Blue, Blue Black and Black are sold under the "Pilot" name in some markets, but under "Namiki" in others and sometimes both names appear on packaging.

 

Apparently Pilot wants/ wanted to establish itself as premium brand in Europe (hence the use of "Namiki" instead of "Pilot" for some products), but Japanese marketing isn't the best all-round.

 

The Capless name was dropped in some markets due to the confusion it created and "Vanishing Point" is the replacement there for "Capless".

 

Sailor Sapporo/ Pro Gear Slim/ Professional Gear Slim (to just go by that one model/ line) uses these three names for this line interchangeably and I don't know why. I think some of it was re- branding/ re-naming, but customers stuck with the old names.

 

Perhaps also different markets getting different names, but the WWW as it is bringing them all together and making people aware of all the variations..

 

Another example is Toyota/ Lexus... Toyota sold all models in Japan under the Toyota name but established outside Japan the Lexus name as their luxury car brand and sold some models as Lexus brand there instead of Toyota. Now they've tapped into the market and brought the Lexus brand also to Japan...

[moonrainbow]

I was always under the impression that "Iroshizuku" meant "colour" (iro) "droplets" (shizuku)? Could any Japanese speakers confirm/clarify?

[Karmachanic]

Another example is Toyota/ Lexus... Toyota sold all models in Japan under the Toyota name but established outside Japan the Lexus name as their luxury car brand and sold some models as Lexus brand there instead of Toyota. Now they've tapped into the market and brought the Lexus brand also to Japan...

 

I believe the etymology is either Luxury Export US, or Luxury Edition US

[A Smug Dill]

Sailor Shikiori. Shikiori simply means Four Seasons. It used to be that ink line was called Sailor Jentle Four Seasons. Now everyone refers to the 20ml bottles as shikiori as if thats something new, though its not. Its understandable where the confusion arises when comparing the older 50ml bottle labels with the new 20ml labels: the new labels now have Shikiori written in Romanized Japanese, whereas before those who cant read Japanese simply glossed over Japanese characters.

The shiki (四季) part of Shikiori (四季織) is 'four seasons'. Ori (織) means weave, fabric or, by extension, texture. The first eight, then (altogether) sixteen, colours in the Shikiori line used to belong in a range called Shikisai (四季彩) as a subset of the broader Jentle product line which also included (non-Shikisai colours such as) the basic Black, Blue-Black and Blue inks, as well as colours like Apricot, Epinard and Grenade. 彩 means (vivid) hues. Those sixteen colours are now in the 十六夜の夢 (the dreams of sixteen nights) range (or subset)of the (currently) twenty ink colours in the Shikiori product line, and the newer four are in the 月夜の水面 (water surface on a moonlit night) range.

 

Iroshizuku translates as color bud.

The kanji used for the Iroshizuku name is 色彩雫. Shizuku (雫) means droplets or dew, and iro (色) is colour. (Yes, 彩 is missing literally from Iroshizuku.) Also note that shikisai is another reading for the kanji 色彩, but Sailor's use of shikisai is different.

[Intensity]

So Google Translate failed there. Thank you for the more detailed explanation and insights.

[Mech-for-i]

well , on top of that one must also get to know the language and how text are being used as they are in the language ; now first of all Iroshizuku 色彩雫 ; the text 雫 means Rain Drop as in a falling droplet of rain , not just any droplet and not dew , it can be inferred by the composition of the text which is a combination of the text RAIN ( 雨 ) and the verb describing its falling in the form of the text 下 ... and the same can be said with the other two text 色彩 which in this case mean Colour 色 ( as a noun ) and Colourful 彩 ( as an adjective ) ; and when all three are used together it means a falling rain of colours ... and the emphasis is on the (s) of Colours

 

East Asian Language ( Chinese, Japanese, and Korean ) are typically not exactly able to be translated directly; likewise Sailor 四季織 can be expressed and understood as - what the seasons weave - or - season's weaving - or with some literature / poetic liberty mean / imply what seasons bring to the hue , what season weave into the spectrum and 四季彩 can mean season's hue.

 

Nakaya, does not mean the business of Nakata, instead it means the House of Nakata, say like House of Windsor, or House of Romanov though in Japan its often used to refer to the family business concern, its not always the case, it can also mean the Family / Clan / Namesake group heritage hold ( say for some craftsman who hand down their craft /art generation to generation ; especially with performing art )

Edited July 22, 2019 by Mech-for-i

[Intensity]

Fascinating, this is exactly why I started this thread, to get insights like that. Thank you!

 

Re: Sailor name: do you think it’s one of the reasons and connection with the Four Seasons ink line naming?

 

Being completely fluent in two quite different languages and having studied two others (sadly none Asian yet), I'm always fascinated by etymology.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Intensity

[A Smug Dill]

Re: Sailor name: do you think its one of the reasons and connection with the Four Seasons ink line naming?

 

I'm not sure what you meant by that. Each of the Shikisai/Shikiori inks are 'associated' with one of the four seasons in Sailor's marketing collateral. You can see that both graphically represented, as well as in the tiny column headers in the chart of Shikiori ink colours.

 

Source: writegear.co.za

 

Source: Amazon.com

 

Source: stilografica.it

[Intensity]

East Asian Language ( Chinese, Japanese, and Korean ) are typically not exactly able to be translated directly; likewise Sailor 四季織 can be expressed and understood as - what the seasons weave - or - season's weaving - or with some literature / poetic liberty mean / imply what seasons bring to the hue , what season weave into the spectrum and 四季彩 can mean season's hue.

 

 

I'm not sure what you meant by that. Each of the Shikisai/Shikiori inks are 'associated' with one of the four seasons in Sailor's marketing collateral. You can see that both graphically represented, as well as in the tiny column headers in the chart of Shikiori ink colours.

 

I've misread what Mech-for-i wrote

Edited July 22, 2019 by Intensity