Vintage Waterman - India

[northlodge]

I have recently picked up a Waterman 503

 

• Design wise It looks like a standard 503
• The logos etc all look correct
• It is in an unusual and quite attractive toffee swirl colour, certainly not something I have previously seen on a 503

Then looking closely I notice that instead of the expected "Made in England" the barrel mark states "Made in India"

 

My thinking is if this was a knock-off then why get everything else correct, and then put a wrong country of origin?

However I have never heard of a Waterman factory in India.

 

Anyone able to enlighten me?

[Left FPN]

IMHO the short answer...it's a knock off.

 

We had a similar topic running a while back but on the 'modern' Carene. Someone picked up a company (Luxor) advertising them as Made in India. The picture on their web was of a Waterman Carene that, IMHO, was manufactured where they all are, in France. I emailed Luxor but received no reply. An FPN member from India was asked to comment and it got no reply. I asked Waterman and they did reply....This pen is produced by Luxor under license, but are not to be sold outside of India and Nepal. My personal interpretation of this is they import parts from Waterman, assemble them into a pen and then class that as Made in India.

 

India has strict rules on import/export of items manufactured from gold or parts thereof.

 

There are some very skilled craftsmen there and from experience they can produce excellent products albeit some are copies of existing products. Lets face it anyone who can make a motorcycle piston from wood and have it work must have some qualities.

 

[northlodge]

I do not disagree with much of what you say about Indian capabilities, but I doubt your conclusion in this case:

 

• There is some confusion about the production of the 5XX models and the similar WX models, but I believe the former are from 1946 - 50 or so, whilst the W range were 1950 -55 or so, Therefore this pen would have been manufactured around the time of India's independance.
• I cannot imagine any one 'knocking off' a bottom of the range 1947 model, particularly then getting the colour 'hopelessly wrong'

I am more inclined to the idea that the parts were bought in from Waterman UK, and then fitted to a barrel / cap manufactured locally - this would explain why all the metal fittings, logos, and tell-tale points such as the unusual Waterman feed, appear to be correct.

 

Whatever the situation, it does not fit my collection, so will go up for sale shortly. i hope the market is equally strong for rare vintage examples an post war knock offs ;- )

[hari317]

A firm called TTK produced these Indian Watermans in the 50s, they closed the pen division entirely in late 60s or so.

There were a good variety of models produced including gold nibbed ones made with press bar fillers etc.

TTK is a very reputed conglomerate and I am pretty sure they had obtained the legal rights to use the name Watermans. They used to import Prestige pressure cookers from the UK and in the 50s obtained legal rights to manufacture them in India and they still make prestige pressure cookers.

 

Here is a reference:

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=kqxZDwAAQBAJ&lpg=PT47&dq=right%20aids%20orient&pg=PT47#v=onepage&q=right%20aids%20orient&f=false

 

Snippet:

 

 

HTH.

[Left FPN]

Well there we go and I for one stand corrected.

 

Hari, do you know anything about the India Carene.

[hari317]

I have a carene deluxe and I used to own a deluxe meridian or some such name. Both were purchased from Luxor. The deluxe has France written on the cap ring. The box and papers are not imported. The papers say brought to you by Luxor. So my examples are not made in India. But as you have found from Waterman maybe they are assembling some here locally. Its possible there is some local content as well with only critical parts bring imported. It makes sense as the import duty on a completely built item is vastly more than on a kit of parts which provides local labour opportunities.

Edited June 15, 2019 by hari317

[northlodge]

Thank you.

 

I would be comfortable in assuming this was a pen produced with the full approval of Waterman, and is thus every bit as much a waterman product as a Valentine made Parker is considered a Parker product.

[deadmau5]

Update on the whole fiasco of quality based on Waterman Pens being "Made in India". Official reply form the Director of Waterman India Distributor

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the questions raised by you and I would like to explain the same accordingly.

 

1. Word “Paris” denotes that Waterman  Brand belongs to Paris and it has no relation with the Place of Manufacture.
2. All the components of Waterman comes to us from France only ( from the original Waterman Company at Nantes France).
3. We only assemble these components here at India as per the standard process defined by the Waterman.
4. It is also to inform that only few finishes are assembled by us in India. Most of the product completely assembled received from France only and we fit only Refills in the same ( which is again received from France).
5. Waterman Products carries the same warranty whether it is assembled at India or at France and will be repaired / replaced free of cost in case of any manufacturing defect.

 

Ensuring you of our best services at all times.

 

-

Thanks & Regards,

Sanjeev K Mishra                                      

 

 

[FarmBoy]

Is it Easter?