Are Fine / Extra-Fine Nibs For Beginners?

[Gsak]

It seems like fountain pen users start off on fine or extra fine nibs for every day use, then, as they get more and more into fountain pens, they graduate towards medium, even bold, nibs. Do you find this to be true? Is it because the benefits of shading, sheen, and line variation are more apparent with wider nibs? Its a curious trend that Ive been observing, albeit casually.

[pajaro]

I use fine and extra fine nibs, and I have been using fountain pens since about 1958. I prefer them. Back in the fifties I was started off with a medium pen supplied by the school. I used medium until I bought a new Parker 51 fine in 1970. I bought some other fines and find I prefer fine and extra fine. I dislike medium and broad, because them lay down too much ink and make my writing sloppy unless they are italic or cursive italic. Fine and extra fine are not for neophytes only, and the new users are better off with medium until they get their feet on the ground.

[akrohn2010]

Some users on this forum followed the trend you're describing, but not all. Strictly my opinion here, but I'd say F/EF nibs are a good introduction to fountain pens due to less feathering and more feedback due to the narrower line/nib surface which helps keep handwriting under control. The line a F/EF nib puts down is closer to an average ballpoint/rollerball and gives the new FP user the same result as their ballpoints but with a much nicer experience.

 

Personally, I started with EF/F nibs and 80% of my pens are still outfitted with them. I also have smaller handwriting, though I'm working to train myself to space my letters out and adopt a more "Palmer Method" look. My "branching out" was into stub nibs, which I think are the most common next step. You get shading/sheen/etc. like you would from a broad nib but with mild line variation.

 

Great question though - I don't consider F/EF "beginners only" but they tend to be the most common first step or most utilitarian nibs for many.

[zaddick]

I think people start with lines that are similar to pens the know like ball point or felt tip pens and that is F or M. Also m is the default size so people start with what their pen comes with. Some people stay there and others explore as they become more comfortable. Some like me go to the extreme end. Wider nibs can be smoother, unlock more ink variations, and show more sheen. But it's not for everyone.

[FlyFast]

I started off with mediums but found them too broad. Next I moved to fines and then extra fines which remain my most used nib sizes. I did briefly use some broads but they do not suit my writing. I do have a few italics and I enjoy using them for correspondence.

I think that everyone’s nib journey is unique.

[ardene]

As I understand medium is the suggested nib for beginners because it is suitable for writing letters between 2/3 and 3/4 of the line height in ruled paper. It is more mainstream so to speak. Fine and extra fine are ideal if you usually write smaller letter heights. Most fp users adjust intuitively their writing to the fp nib they use when they use it, but some nibs can be more suitable to beginners for automated, muscle-memory and attention-free writing. Although the attention required does not amount to conscious effort to make deliberate judgements (how to hold the pen, where to start drawing a letter and the like), it’s more like driving a borrowed bike. You are familiar with it from your riding other bike makes but you are not going to assume that riding it uphill or downhill it is going to tire you / require to press the brakes in precisely the same way as when on your own bike.

 

Most of my few pens have medium nibs. I have a couple of thick-writing fines, and no (plain) broad nib. I have stubs, which are by definition broad, and a broad oblique. I prefer rather absorbent school paper which is, I find, suitable for all my fps to write well and fast on. Such paper will not usually be conducive to producing any sheen or shading effects, but it is ideal for line variation, especially with a stub nib. That said, I have never seen any sheen on Rhodia but I have seen a lot of shading on it. I do not particularly care about either. Roughly, broader nibs are less scratchy and have less feedback, and a thicker line can be more forgiving for the appearance of the script. Broader nibs also put more colour on a page, which is a nice feature if the excess ink does not flood the insides of the "e", the "o" and the like letters you are writing. So, in the end it is all about the balance between coloured lines and the white space on a page, which depends on how large or small are the characters you tend to put on paper.

[ethernautrix]

Nope!

 

Started with Western fines and extra-fines, prefer Japanese PO, UEF, SEF, EF, and F nibs.

 

I like broader nibs now and again, but a little goes a long way.

[gyasko]

I agree with the idea that novices are beverage more into fine and extra fine nibs. For one thing, the narrower nibs are generally available without too much effort. You have to look a little harder for the more exotic nibs, especially with vintage American pens.

 

I also think that as one's experience grows, one recognizes the utility of various nibs. I prefer to compose with stubs and obliques, but i still use narrower nibs for corrections and editing. And even if one likes needlepoints, one might reach for a broad nib when putting ab adress on an envelope.

[sansenri]

I started with an F nib, in times when broads where rather rare, but found it to be rather scratchy at first.

Problem was in those times, as a kid, I just did not have other options, I had to write with what was available.

I practically ground my F nibs to M through miles of writing...

I did notice that happening, and was pleasantly pleased that the scratchiness I had originally experienced was gone.

That might have also been due to the fact that in the meantime I had learned to better use my pen.

Nonetheless I did also notice the line my pen was leaving down was broader than at start (took several years writing with the same pen every day to observe that). I actually liked that.

I noticed more shading and enjoyed that.

With time I think my writing has also increased in size, especially in later years, otherwise I find it hard to read what I have written.

Today, I use nibs from EF to BB, although I do very often still use M, when the scope is plain writing.

I actually love using B size.

So I would not actually say that F/EF are for beginners, my son likes M size, my daughter on the other hand loves EF, because she has very small writing! (almost unreadable for me...)

Edited April 6, 2019 by sansenri

[senzen]

Of my 29 pens, 27 are fine or equivalent japanese medium; it's what makes my handwriting more legible. With extra fine nibs I need to focus more; someday I'll try larger nibs but I can't see my handwriting improving with them. I don't see a progression from one size to another.

Edited April 6, 2019 by pseudo88

[NotAWiz4rd]

I think here in Germany, most people start with an M nib, just because it's the nib that normally comes with the pen when you get one for school at a young age.

For my own writing I found M nibs to be too broad (as I write relatively small) so I went more towards F and now EF nibs.

[PAKMAN]

Most pen stores typically have Medium nibs in stock and many beginers start out with them. I did and moved to fine/ extra fine to better suite my handwriting.

[minddance]

I don't know what kind of beginner you are and what your writing purposes are, but when I was a beginner, I absolutely wanted sheen and shading. My starter pens were Pelikan m1000 fine, m800 medium, m200bb and broad, twsbi stubs and broads, Pilot Parallel, Faber Castell Loom Broad, Kaweco sport BB and Broad, Waterman Phileas Medium, Sailor 21k broad and mediumx Platinum 3776 Broad and Medium, Pilot 74 Music nib and BB.

 

Then I realised many of these pens are not for my everyday writing. If I wanted to play with inks and use light and pale inks, some of these pens work. but if I wanted to fill a form or pen down lots of details and content on a page, many of these pens do not work.

 

I don't believe in a 'graduation' from a certain nib size to another. to me, there is no such thing. it is best to know what you want to write for and why you want to write with a fountain pen. I can't answer that for you.

 

I now write mostly with an EF or at most a F nib (western and Japanese). Only on some weekends do the broader nibs and flex-ier nibs get used.

 

also, some broad(er) nibs have a more specific sweet spot than I imagine, they can also force the hand to write in a certain way/angle. so, broad and medium nibs are not always easier on the hand than extra fine or fine nibs.

 

if you are after shading and sheen, extra fine and fine nibs can also work - with 'correctly' tuned nibs, of course.

[ENewton]

I wrote with fine nibs almost twenty years before trying any other nib size and hence never had to worry about buying "fountain-pen friendly" paper.

[miwishi63]

Fine and Extra-Fine have been my preference since I got into the hobby, but I'm starting to move toward stub nibs. Not sure where that will lead...

[BaronWulfraed]

My starter pens were Pelikan m1000 fine, m800 medium, m200bb and broad, twsbi stubs and broads

 

I wish I'd had your budget -- if an M1000 is a "starter pen".

 

My "starters" were Sheaffer "school cartridge", my father's old Pilot (<sigh> lost when it slipped out my shirt pocket while running to my next class in the 9th grade), Sheaffer Triumph-nibbed Stylist/Imperial 777 (Birthday gift to replace the Pilot -- but I was not allowed to carry this one to school; it was all of an $18 pen in 1972), Sheaffer 440 and Parker 45s (both $5 pens in 72). My next gold-nibbed pen was a matte black Sheaffer Targa in the late 70s.

 

Most of those were M nibs (the 777 was a B, and I had two 45s -- one F).

[NeverTapOut]

Nope!

 

Started with Western fines and extra-fines, prefer Japanese PO, UEF, SEF, EF, and F nibs.

 

I like broader nibs now and again, but a little goes a long way.

 

I love PO nibs...I had Mark Bacas make me one 2 years ago...love it.

[minddance]

 

I wish I'd had your budget -- if an M1000 is a "starter pen".

 

My "starters" were Sheaffer "school cartridge", my father's old Pilot (<sigh> lost when it slipped out my shirt pocket while running to my next class in the 9th grade), Sheaffer Triumph-nibbed Stylist/Imperial 777 (Birthday gift to replace the Pilot -- but I was not allowed to carry this one to school; it was all of an $18 pen in 1972), Sheaffer 440 and Parker 45s (both $5 pens in 72). My next gold-nibbed pen was a matte black Sheaffer Targa in the late 70s.

 

Most of those were M nibs (the 777 was a B, and I had two 45s -- one F).

yes, you see, I started using fountain pens regularly only at a rather late stage, I grew up with ballpoints and rollerballs.

 

I am sure Pelikan m1000 and m800 arn't commonly associated with words like 'starter' and 'beginner', allow me to rephrase, they are the first few pens I have in my possession. my very first pen is a Waterman Phileas medium that I bought at a brick and mortar closing-down sale. I didn't even know its name is 'Phileas' until I came to this forum.

[A Smug Dill]

Most pen stores typically have Medium nibs in stock and many beginers start out with them. I did and moved to fine/ extra fine to better suite my handwriting.

Same here. My first fountain pens were bought in large department stores, where every last one in stock ready to be selected, packed up and wrapped had Medium nibs. Luckily for me I had a Rotring Initial with a Medium nib that wrote (in retrospect, now that I know better) like a 'Western Fine'; otherwise I'd have just concluded, "Fountain pens suck, and I can see why they fell out of favour in the market, abandoned by even those (wannabes like me) who have pretensions of sophistication." Nobody actually advised me — the customer and a beginner when it comes to fountain pens — that Medium nibs were simply what (Western fountain pen) manufacturers deem to be most likely accepted as-is by those who really don't know what they're looking for or would ideally like in a fountain pen, and that every manufacturer offered at least Fine and Broad nibs as options for every model in the display cabinet.

 

Later, the local 'premier' department store's staff offered to source Fine nibs from Waterman and Parker for the pens I've selected for subsequent purchases, if I was prepared to wait before collecting my order. That was OK, but inconvenient and not ideal. The Fine nibs on my Waterman Expert pens were good/narrow enough, but the Fine nibs on my Parker Sonnet gold Cascade pens sucked, when it comes to delivering a precise line. (Nobody had mentioned Extra Fine nibs to me.) The nib on my Cross Townsend titanium herringbone finish fountain pen sucked, too. As did the nibs on the S.T. Dupont pens I had and never liked. That put me off buying any more fountain pens (in spite of not exactly limiting myself to cheap models) for many years.

 

That was nearly twenty years ago.

 

Then, six years ago I 'rediscovered' fountain pens when I bid for and won a couple of Japanese fountain pens (with brand names like Sailor that I never heard of, because I live in "the arse end of the world", as a former Australian Prime Minister famously put it when he was in office). That opened my eyes to how good fountain pens could be.

 

It seems like fountain pen users start off on fine or extra fine nibs for every day use, then, as they get more and more into fountain pens, they graduate towards medium, even bold, nibs. Do you find this to be true? Is it because the benefits of shading, sheen, and line variation are more apparent with wider nibs?

Certainly not the case for me. My fountain pens are writing instruments; they should serve my handwriting first and foremost. I experiment with different nibs (but still avoiding Medium and Broad nibs like the plague) to see what they can do for my handwriting – the shapes I lay down on paper to form legible text — that a 'hard' Fine nib cannot.

 

As for chasing shading, sheen and line variation, to me they're merely effects, and only when I want them to be evident in my writing outcome. I think there's a whole lot of, "Before I learned the art, a punch was just a punch, and a kick, just a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick, no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick," in that whole thing. Each movement of my hand when writing is ultimately chosen to (and hopefully will) deliver the meaningful result I want; and to me handwriting is about the shapes on the paper and the contents (and meta-messages) those shapes convey. I don't see chasing uncontrolled shading and sheen as either art or a masterful pursuit, even if a beginner to fountain pens may not even know what those terms mean in regards to fountain pen ink.

 

What I can tell you, now that I know better, is that (Western) Medium and Broad nibs will never be fit for my purposes except for special effects (or 'circus acts') I want to introduce sparingly into a piece of handwriting, once in a blue moon. They are otherwise unsatisfactory writing instruments to me, but back when I was a beginner, I wouldn't know enough to make that statement on an informed basis.

[Honeybadgers]

In countries like the US, yes. They are. Because a beginner isn't writing on clairefontaine. So a medium nib jinhao 450 is going to bleed and feather. You want a fine/extra fine nib for cheap paper and cheap inks. Expect any newbie to not be using any other good materials beyond their first pen initially.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Honeybadgers