Guess That Sailor Ink And Advice For A 1911 Mf Nib

[elippman]

Hello again,

 

I have bought my first Sailor pen--a 1911 Promenade--and have been using it almost exclusively since. However, I do want to ask some questions for those who know more than I about these things. I have noticed that, as many have noted in many different places, Sailor nibs are not equal to the task of all inks. While a superbly smooth nib with a great feed, the fine-ness of even a medium-fine can cause quite a bit of drag while writing if the ink is not ideally suited to the pen. That brings me to my first question:

 

1) Does anyone know what ink comes in the little proprietary cartridges that come with the pen? It's black ink and I assumed it was Sailor Jentle Black, which I had never tried before. Since I didn't buy a converted and the "standard international" approach doesn't seem to be in play here, I resolved to write out one of the cartridges that came with it, then refill that cartridge. I did so, but was incredibly impressed by the ink! I generally don't like black ink and haven't filled with more since I emptied that cartridge, but that ink was ideal in its behavior--super-smooth, no skipping, fast drying, even seemed to lay down a thicker line than the inks I've tried since. I haven't been able to parallel that experience since. If nothing else, I'd like to know what it is so I can get a bottle of it to fall back on if I never find another ink that works as well.

 

2) Since the black ink, I have tried Callifolio Olivastre, an ink I knew to be too dry for most finer nibs but I assumed would work given the experience of the black ink that preceded it. I was wrong. It was too dry and created quite a bit more drag. After writing it out, I went to KWZ Grey Plum, which is a favorite and usually flows pretty well. It's known as an all-around great performer. It's working well enough, I suppose, but may be too saturated. I've had a few hard starts and anemic lines with it, as well as occasional skipping. I also can't leave the pen uncapped for any time at all and pick it up expecting to write. Got spoiled doing that with the black ink, but it doesn't work with Grey Plum at all. So does anyone have any advice for what kind of ink might be able to replicated the feel of the black cartridge that came with the pen? I tend to like browns, blurples, purples, and greens. If you're going to say "look to Sailor inks," I have Epinard, Nioi Sumire, Rikyu Cha, Yama Dori, and Kobe Maya Lapis, but haven't tried any of those yet. If you're going to say "look to Iroshizuku," I have only Asa Gao, but have long looked toward Tsuki-yo. I also have quite a few Noodler's, J. Herbin, R&K, and Diamine inks in the color ranges mentioned. If you've had good luck with any of these, or with something that's not listed, please let me know. I'd like to find that sweet feel again without having to resort to black.

[A Smug Dill]

I have noticed that, as many have noted in many different places, Sailor nibs are not equal to the task of all inks.

Put another way, not all inks are equal to the task of performing well in a narrow nib with precisely controlled flow. It's not the nib's 'job' to suit the user's preferred ink.

 

While a superbly smooth nib with a great feed, the fine-ness of even a medium-fine can cause quite a bit of drag while writing if the ink is not ideally suited to the pen.

That's (kinaesthetic) 'feedback' for you. You mightn't like it, but that isn't evidence that the ink isn't ideally suited to the pen per se. I've used Diamine inks and Noodler's inks in some of my Sailor pens before, and most work just fine, writing without hard starts or skips; and the nibs do not magically become scratchier or noisier (from metal dragging on the paper surface). Most of the time, though, I use Japanese inks with Japanese pens.

 

I also have quite a few Noodler's, J. Herbin, R&K, and Diamine inks in the color ranges mentioned.

I don't like the pen/nib to be so 'smooth' as to glide all over the page and frustrating my attempts to modulate my hand pressure and control the pen's movements in a sense-and-respond way, so if you're specifically asking for intelligence on inks that somehow takes away the 'feedback', I'm afraid I can't help you there. The only ink I've had a problem with flow in a Sailor pen is, ironically, Sailor seiboku pigment ink. Everything else works OK, although I haven't tried Diamine Golden Honey in a Sailor pen and I have my doubts about that ink.

 

<EDIT>

I just happen to have two un-inked Sailor pens that use the same type of medium-sized 14K gold 1911 nibs, including one with an H-MF nib, and I also have a bottle of KWZ Ink Grey Plum, so here you go:

 

 

No, I had no problem with undue drag or scratchiness using that ink in those pens, any more than I would with a Sailor Jentle ink.

Edited March 27, 2019 by A Smug Dill

[elippman]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all feedback should be removed, just pointing out that there is a noticeable difference between the black ink that the pen came with and Callifolio Olivastre, for instance, in terms of how smoothly or quickly it could move across the page. Olivastre definitely slowed things down. Grey Plum works well enough once it's flowing, but for me the problem with that one has been hard starts or the ability to start up decently if left uncapped for a minute or two. I guess what I'm looking or are inks that are more resilient in those types of situations. Whereas some might like the increased feedback that comes with drier inks, I prefer the more lubricated feel of the black ink that came with the pen, but I haven't been able to replicate it yet.

[Olya]

The black ink is Sailor's standard (Jentle) Black, offered in 50ml bottles.

 

I think Diamine Asa Blue lessens feedback, also Pilot Blue Black, and some more, but it's been a while since I changed inks more often... J Herbin Perle Noire..

[senzen]

In this case I also think it's about our expectations rather than nib of feed performance; my 21k Sailor (M) does great with Tsuyu Kusa, I did press very gently on the tines to make it come out wetter. Throwing money at it doesn't solve the problem, some cheaper pens do great with specific inks, in my case Lamy Vistas with Verde Muschiato and Équinoxe 6, where other pens would even clog with the latter. Most people seem to like Asa Gao darker, I was looking for something closer to what the box shows, and finally found it in a Parker 75 (F). On the other hand no pen, wet or dry has been able to make Ina Ho look like what's shown in the box, it's not a problem with the ink or the pens but rather my expectations.

[A Smug Dill]

On the other hand no pen, wet or dry has been able to make Ina Ho look like what's shown in the box, it's not a problem with the ink or the pens but rather my expectations.

 

 

The images here show that it is possible for Ina-ho to look that dark on the page, but you probably have to use something that puts down an extremely saturated line on ink. Maybe write slowly with a Pelikan gold nib?

[A Smug Dill]

Don't get me wrong, ...‹snip›...Grey Plum works well enough once it's flowing, but for me the problem with that one has been hard starts or the ability to start up decently if left uncapped for a minute or two.

Equally, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to invalidate your experience. As an experiment, just now I uncapped my Sailor Promenade (with the EF nib, shown in the photo above), walked away from my desk to make myself a coffee, came back four minutes later, and wrote on that same piece of paper (still at the very top of my Rhodia Dotpad) from yesterday — and the ink flow started immediately. The temperature is about 24°C and humidity about 58% here right now, if that matters.

 

I guess what I'm looking or are inks that are more resilient in those types of situations. Whereas some might like the increased feedback that comes with drier inks, I prefer the more lubricated feel of the black ink that came with the pen, but I haven't been able to replicate it yet.

I have never actually used any of the ink cartridges supplied with my Sailor pens. However, I can recommend that you give Sailor kiwaguro pigment ink a try; oh, but then I just remembered you're specifically looking for colours other than black. I wonder why you haven't tried the Sailor Shikiori inks in your pen yet, especially if you've already decided Callifolio Olivastre and KWZI Grey Plum don't work well with it?

[elippman]

It's true that I'm not really a black ink fan, but when I do go that route, Perle Noir has been the bottle I go to. The climactic conditions in Australia right now might explain a lot. We're coming off a particularly cold and dry Minnesota winter. Things have just started warming up, so maybe Grey Plum is better as a summer ink here. It's probably the case that everything is better as a summer ink in MN, although for us the summers can go to the opposite extreme--hot and extremely humid ("10,000 lakes" is an understatement).

 

I haven't bought any of the new Shikiori inks, although Yonaga looks particularly tempting. I haven't had the pen for very many days. I've basically gone through two and a half ink cartridges in that time--the first with the black in it, then refilled with Olivastre and refilled again with Grey Plum. Hoping the Sailor route would get me back on the right track, my next stop was going to be Nioi Sumire, although that's an ink that I've seldom been able to get to look like some of the reviews and images suggest it should. Still, we'll see how it works in this pen.

[A Smug Dill]

Aside: The sixteen Sailor Shikisai ('colours of the four seasons') range of Jentle inks have all been rebranded as Shikiori inks — along with yozakura, yodaki, yonaga and shimoyo — last year, so when I said Shikiori, that covers nioisumire, rikyucha and yamadori as well.

 

Yonaga is my favourite among the new colours.

[senzen]

 

 

The images here show that it is possible for Ina-ho to look that dark on the page, but you probably have to use something that puts down an extremely saturated line on ink. Maybe write slowly with a Pelikan gold nib?

 

Thanks, it's a good idea, but after trying with several pens I finally gave up on Ina Ho, too much swamp / booger green for my taste, Verde Muschiato starts similar but luckily goes darker; it looks better to my eyes in an EF Penmanship but it's barely legible; my one 18k Pelikan works too well with Hisoku to try, it also took me a while to find the right pen for it.