Lamy Benitoite Ink

[A Smug Dill]

Also, of the entire crystal line, only this one is called a "document" ink by Lamy. Have not been able to figure out why. I isn't waterproof.

Because it meets some ISO standard for inks suitable for documentary use, I suppose? It isn't waterproof, but it is highly water resistant (see my photos in my earlier posts in this thread) in spite of some blue colour washing off, and it is obviously not a formal/technical requirement that a "document-proof" ink is waterproof to the extent that no colour comes off the page at all upon being washed or soaked.

[1nkulus]

Because it meets some ISO standard for inks suitable for documentary use, I suppose? It isn't waterproof, but it is highly water resistant (see my photos in my earlier posts in this thread) in spite of some blue colour washing off, and it is obviously not a formal/technical requirement that a "document-proof" ink is waterproof to the extent that no colour comes off the page at all upon being washed or soaked.

 

So it would seem. Shame that the two terms are interchanged at will.

 

There are enough inks that are not ISO certified but are more than adequate for the task.

 

ISO testing does cost a bundle and only a few have it.

For those that really must have the certification, these handful will suffice.

 

For the rest of us, try Noodler's KTC which is ISO free and apocalypse rated.

[eharriett]

 

So it would seem. Shame that the two terms are interchanged at will.

 

There are enough inks that are not ISO certified but are more than adequate for the task.

........

 

For the rest of us, try Noodler's KTC which is ISO free and apocalypse rated.

 

 

Heartily agree with that statement. I have a Sheaffer school pen filled with KTC at all times for that very reason.

[1nkulus]

Heartily agree with that statement. I have a Sheaffer school pen filled with KTC at all times for that very reason.

 

A very useful tool in the arsenal, just in case.

[A Smug Dill]

Shame that the two terms are interchanged at will.

By whom specifically, though? I don't see most consumers diligently researching and adopting standard/technical/industry terminology, to express their functional and qualitative requirements to others. The habit of talking to a select few hobbyists whom one thinks of as like-minded doesn't gives him/her/them claim to the 'correct' or authoritative definition of a term and, "Screw semantics; you know what I mean!" doesn't really fly when communicating with someone outside that group (or with manufacturers and retailers of commercial consumer products). There are many on FPN who seem to fail to make a distinction between 'waterproof' and 'water-resistant', and/or expect 'waterproof' to imply 'lightfast'.

 

Personally I'd love to discover (or create) an ink that is not affected at all by contact with water once it has set and dried on the page (thus waterproof), but will fade from the original colour to just a faint shadow in a fortnight from exposure to air and light.

 

There are enough inks that are not ISO certified but are more than adequate for the task.

The task of being waterproof? Sure. Sailor seiboku and souboku, and Platinum Carbon Black, are all waterproof. Actually, from my brief testing, so are Sailor STORIA Lion Light Brown, Magic Purple and Night Blue as well as Platinum Brun-Sepia pigment inks. As for the task of 'documentary use', I don't actually have a firm idea of what I critically require for that. If it only retains 20% legibility after 10 years of being locked up in a safe, would that be OK? I don't know, and I suppose it depends on the specific document, and not Document as a whole class of objects. Resistance to tampering by the application of bleach, alcohol, etc.?

 

ISO testing does cost a bundle and only a few have it.

Most consumers don't understand which ISO standards exist and what those say, anyway. How many devoted fountain pen users are going to spend money buying a copy of the ISO standard in question, then spend time actually reading it, when ISO standards (rightly, in my opinion) are not in the public domain and freely accessible to the casual peruser?

[eharriett]

Actually, I know of several places that need to have specific certifications for ink. It has more to do for lack of acidity rather than lightfastness, though. Archiving and preserving. I can see they'd need something like the ISO standards. However, I think they use something different than this.

 

Aren't the Noodlers "Bad" inks supposed to be exactly what you are asking about? While I am a user of Noodlers inks, I don't have any from that series. I do use some of their bulletproof ones though.

 

Usually, I agree Platinum Carbon Black is my ideal permenant black. I have a spare bottle of it in case it ever goes out of production.

 

You bring up an interesting non sequitur: is the ISO standards for ink, the same regulating body that set the standards for film?

[A Smug Dill]

is the ISO standards for ink, the same regulating body that set the standards for film?

https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:12757:-2:ed-1:v1:en

 

ISO (the International Organization for Standardization) is a worldwide federation of national standards bodies (ISO member bodies). The work of preparing International Standards is normally carried out through ISO technical committees. Each member body interested in a subject for which a technical committee has been established has the right to be represented on that committee. International organizations, governmental and non-governmental, in liaison with ISO, also take part in the work. ISO collaborates closely with the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) on all matters of electrotechnical standardisation.

Now that I've looked into it a bit more, I think ISO 11798 is the more relevant standard.

Edited May 21, 2019 by A Smug Dill

[Honeybadgers]

Actually, I know of several places that need to have specific certifications for ink. It has more to do for lack of acidity rather than lightfastness, though. Archiving and preserving. I can see they'd need something like the ISO standards. However, I think they use something different than this.

 

Aren't the Noodlers "Bad" inks supposed to be exactly what you are asking about? While I am a user of Noodlers inks, I don't have any from that series. I do use some of their bulletproof ones though.

 

Usually, I agree Platinum Carbon Black is my ideal permenant black. I have a spare bottle of it in case it ever goes out of production.

 

You bring up an interesting non sequitur: is the ISO standards for ink, the same regulating body that set the standards for film?

 

 

"bad" noodlers inks (warden line) are made in response to a challenge Nathan Tardiff issued where he'd pay anyone who could remove his bulletproof ink.

 

Someone at MIT (I think) did it with a laser. The Bad inks are a formulation that is also laser proof and currently immune to all forms of removal known once bonded to cellulose fibers.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[1nkulus]

There are many on FPN who seem to fail to make a distinction between 'waterproof' and 'water-resistant', and/or expect 'waterproof' to imply 'lightfast'.

+1

 

The task of being waterproof? Sure. Sailor seiboku and souboku, and Platinum Carbon Black, are all waterproof. Actually, from my brief testing, so are Sailor STORIA Lion Light Brown, Magic Purple and Night Blue as well as Platinum Brun-Sepia pigment inks. As for the task of 'documentary use', I don't actually have a firm idea of what I critically require for that. If it only retains 20% legibility after 10 years of being locked up in a safe, would that be OK? I don't know, and I suppose it depends on the specific document, and not Document as a whole class of objects. Resistance to tampering by the application of bleach, alcohol, etc.?

 

Agreed.

 

For those requiring 'documentary use', they can select from the handful of ISO certified inks. The rest of us, normal folk, would find the 'waterproof' inks more than adequate for our needs.

OTOH, there can be exceptions like Noodler's BSB which is waterproof but not fade resistant.

 

Most consumers don't understand which ISO standards exist and what those say, anyway. How many devoted fountain pen users are going to spend money buying a copy of the ISO standard in question, then spend time actually reading it, when ISO standards (rightly, in my opinion) are not in the public domain and freely accessible to the casual peruser?

 

Agreed.

 

To the casual user, the ISO certification just shows that the ink is probably of 'better quality' as it has been tested to some standard.

If the user was intending to use it for something specific, I am sure the manufacturer would be happy to clarify.

 

OTOH, the professionals will have access to the ISO standards since they would base their purchase dependent upon the specific ISO standard covering their use/needs.

 

ISO 11798:1999 does seem appropriate for FP inks.

 

The Ball pen and Roller ball inks are already covered.

BP ink and RB ink: ISO 12757-1:1998 and ISO 14145-1:1998 respectively. (General use)

BP ink and RB ink: ISO 12757-2:1998 and ISO 14145-2:1998 respectively. (Document use)

[A Smug Dill]

ISO 11798:1999 does seem appropriate for FP inks.

I suspect ISO 12757-2 and ISO 14145-2 are both just applications of ISO 11798 within a specific, limited scope (ballpoint pen ink and rollerball pen ink, respectively).

 

I might ask for a copy of it as my birthday present, since my family members always complain I'm so difficult to buy presents for, especially when they wouldn't dare to get me any fountain pens or inks.

[1nkulus]

I suspect ISO 12757-2 and ISO 14145-2 are both just applications of ISO 11798 within a specific, limited scope (ballpoint pen ink and rollerball pen ink, respectively).

 

I think so too.

[1nkulus]

I might ask for a copy of it as my birthday present, since my family members always complain I'm so difficult to buy presents for, especially when they wouldn't dare to get me any fountain pens or inks.

 

I would ask for all three (pen, ink and ISO publication) so you can do a thorough ink test as per the standard.

You can then nominate that pen as the ISO testing pen.

[Bo Bo Olson]

First it's a shading ink; a + in my books.

After a while one gets into dusky or murky inks.

 

Back in the day @ a decade or so ago, when all things MB was hated on this com, I had a bottle of Racing Green in my hand, and didn't take in I had no understanding of murky. (How was I to know you could put your kid through two years of Yale for a bottle of that most hated ink in the world.

Astounding how well liked it became after it was discontinued.

I got a bottle of Sepia instead. Which I took to be a brown. Since then Sepia has become a big word.

After all, following the advice of the com, I was going to toss the ink down the sink, for the bottle. Luckily I liked the ink, and eventually paid 1/3 more for a second bottle.

 

I have a bottle of DA Golf, a sort of faded dusty green I like a lot.

So this ink joins the ever growing list of inks....I 'need'.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Only a year later, I was at my B&M and stumbled across some Lamy Crystal Inks....the names of the inks are in the small print on the bottom of the box.

I had been wondering where folks found Bentoite...until I looked three times, finding it in small print at the bottom of the box where no one looks.  An ink to keep in the box so one knows what ink it is.....wife said write the name and paste on the bottom or top.

The bottles have name name on them. just a colored plastic rim on the cap.

Some sort of grayish ring.

On Azure sort of blue ring. Amazonite a turquoise colored ring.

Has anyone tried Lamy Crystal Green or what ever it's name is.

I chickened out today because of the infamous Lamy Green, and didn't buy that one too.

 

These Crystal inks didn't impress many....In I think only two inks were reviewed.

 

Just for the hell of it, the old W.Germany era Lamy ink bottles in blue and turquoise.....that I've still not opened.

[Anne-Sophie]

On 3/24/2019 at 7:29 PM, inkstainedruth said:

Thanks for the review.

Unlike some people here, I've been looking forward to this one the most of the new Lamy line. I got to test them all at Christmastime in the Lamy Soho store in NYC (I was quite put out that it was only a display and the inks weren't actually available yet, but at least they had tester pens for all the new colors), and Benitoite was definitely my favorite.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Ruth does it match with the color of your newest bluish Al-Star? Sorry I forgot the name of the Al-Star color.