Kobe #45 And #49 - Two Stone Greens

[airstairesc]

Now I want a bottle of #49 as well.

 

I adore the inkblot. It looks like crushed velvet. 💚

[airstairesc]

Where #45 is dimming, #49 has a glow to it.

[pgcauk]

11 hours ago, airstairesc said:

Where #45 is dimming, #49 has a glow to it.

Absolutely! #45 is like a Green that's been shut down, or just the embers of green, certainly more mineral than vegetal and very, very sophisticated. You won't regret your purchase at all.

#49 could not be seen as black in the same way as #45, but it can be read as "drab" rather than a particular color. It isn't what I think of as olive at all, unless it's the leaves. One nice thing with #49 is its lack of sheen. A lot of darker green inks seem to have red sheen, which is all a bit too Christmas Tinsel for me! I can overlook it in Diamine Classic, which I really enjoy, but Tokiwa Matsu is just exasperating (for me)!

I like and admire the 'near black' inks but sometimes struggle if the enigma isn't apparent. The trick I have found is either to use a super broad nib such as a fude, I have #54 in a 21k Sailor Zoom at the moment and it brings gasps of delight every time, or to combine multiple near-blacks on a page, which really brings out the underlying hues by contrast. I had been diluting my Sailor Ink Studio #s 650 and 223 to bring out the purple, but alongside #45 they look purple at full saturation and #45 becomes regal in its magnificence!

 

I had the same experience as you with Salamander - I really like the idea but. . . For brownish greens I would go Muschiato or Burma Road, or Safari falls more in the green camp.

[airstairesc]

8 hours ago, pgcauk said:

Absolutely! #45 is like a Green that's been shut down, or just the embers of green, certainly more mineral than vegetal and very, very sophisticated. You won't regret your purchase at all.

#49 could not be seen as black in the same way as #45, but it can be read as "drab" rather than a particular color. It isn't what I think of as olive at all, unless it's the leaves. One nice thing with #49 is its lack of sheen. A lot of darker green inks seem to have red sheen, which is all a bit too Christmas Tinsel for me! I can overlook it in Diamine Classic, which I really enjoy, but Tokiwa Matsu is just exasperating (for me)!

I like and admire the 'near black' inks but sometimes struggle if the enigma isn't apparent. The trick I have found is either to use a super broad nib such as a fude, I have #54 in a 21k Sailor Zoom at the moment and it brings gasps of delight every time, or to combine multiple near-blacks on a page, which really brings out the underlying hues by contrast. I had been diluting my Sailor Ink Studio #s 650 and 223 to bring out the purple, but alongside #45 they look purple at full saturation and #45 becomes regal in its magnificence!

 

I had the same experience as you with Salamander - I really like the idea but. . . For brownish greens I would go Muschiato or Burma Road, or Safari falls more in the green camp.

 

I chose to get both #45 and #49 (and a sample of #3). It's funny you mention Christmas because these inks are technically Christmas gifts! I am really looking forward to their arrival. I think #49 captured me on first sight, but I suspect #45 is its true rival. I can't stop looking at both.

 

Sheen is not something I look for, generally. It really depends. I prefer when the sheen is minimal and requires one to look closely to find it. I dislike when it's sticky or looks too shiny. I care more about shading, but there is a thing as too much shading... where it's too stark between the light and dark/heavy areas.

 

I share your sentiments about near blacks. One thing that drives me crazy (in a good way) is when an ink appears black, at first. But you keep looking and your eye sort of tells you to hold on... then you notice it. Once you see it in one spot, then you notice it everywhere on the page. It's like stumbling upon a hidden cache or a hole in the clouds where a bit of sunlight shines through. It was there, you just didn't see it at first. The smoke clears...

 

I also love the idea of writing a letter or in a journal with near black... but then one day a rain comes along (or tears or tea) and washes upon the paper to reveal that it wasn't really black at all.

 

Haven't tried Tokiwa Matsu myself. Looking at some scans online, it's not only too much sheen, it's distracting and takes away from an otherwise nice shade of green. I have a sample of Burma Road Brown that's almost used up. It didn't do much for me while writing with it, but I ended up enjoying it more when I went back to re-read something months later.

[pgcauk]

I fully support you having both! They are both dark greens but beyond that they're utterly different. I started with #45 and a sample of #49 and ending up writing with #49 on a daily basis for a couple of years without tiring of it. You can't really tire of it as it's very selfless, pushing everything else into the foreground while it remains unnoticed! #45 is truly magnificent, but really very subtle - a great combination!

 

I did try #3 but it's #40 that became "my" taupe, a very nicely balanced cool brown with great shading but, again, selfless. I have used it for a lot of reference letters and it just looks neutral and dependable, not, well, colored!

 

What a great world this is to explore!

[pgcauk]

Here's #45 in the middle, #49 as the olive branch and a range of olives and violets. I splashed out on a Gin Martini as I mostly write with violet, olive and burned orange inks. The pen has both Olive and Pimiento colors - so of course I loaded it with purple ink and am having a blast!

The second shows #45 in between the two Ink Studio Purples that I am struggling to build a relationship with. #650 is above and #223 below. I think #223 might be the closest balance to #54 in its "only just there" color - I just haven't come around to liking it yet!

[airstairesc]

18 hours ago, pgcauk said:

I fully support you having both! They are both dark greens but beyond that they're utterly different. I started with #45 and a sample of #49 and ending up writing with #49 on a daily basis for a couple of years without tiring of it. You can't really tire of it as it's very selfless, pushing everything else into the foreground while it remains unnoticed! #45 is truly magnificent, but really very subtle - a great combination!

 

I did try #3 but it's #40 that became "my" taupe, a very nicely balanced cool brown with great shading but, again, selfless. I have used it for a lot of reference letters and it just looks neutral and dependable, not, well, colored!

 

What a great world this is to explore!

 

The use of the word "selfless" is perfect!

 

I'm very curious about #3, but having just looked up #40 -- it's beautiful. It's a bit like MB Swan Illusion, which I love and consider a very romantic ink. I sometimes make my own mix of Swan Illusion with Oyster Grey and that gives me something versatile for day-to-day with a tone that works on both white and cream/ivory papers. I'm definitely getting a sample of #40 next time to do some comparisons. Looking at some scans and swatches of #40 Sumiyoshi, I prefer it when it's slightly washed out looking.

 

17 hours ago, pgcauk said:

Here's #45 in the middle, #49 as the olive branch and a range of olives and violets. I splashed out on a Gin Martini as I mostly write with violet, olive and burned orange inks. The pen has both Olive and Pimiento colors - so of course I loaded it with purple ink and am having a blast!

The second shows #45 in between the two Ink Studio Purples that I am struggling to build a relationship with. #650 is above and #223 below. I think #223 might be the closest balance to #54 in its "only just there" color - I just haven't come around to liking it yet!

 

Thank you for these scans! The #45 olive and toothpick! "Pimientos by Antietam" - LOL. It's already saved to my computer. I've decided to dedicate a new journal just to use with #45 and #49.

 

Congratulations on your new Gin Martini! All the new Cocktail pens are gorgeous but the Gin Martini is the most charming of the bunch and caught many a eye because it's sold out at all the retailers near me.

 

Both of those Studio Purples are nice. The #650 is lovely, but the #223 is beguiling. Similar to Scabiosa, which is the only purple I own. For a few years it was my primary ink and was fascinating to track how the ink changed in the bottle. By the end of the first bottle the ink had darkened, past ripe, borderline fermentation. Upon opening a fresh second bottle the ink was definitely a crisper-looking purple, almost like #650 in the writing portion. That's actually when I stopped using Scabiosa as a primary because the difference between the two bottles threw me off. I dipped a pen in it recently and still love the colour but it's still too fresh-looking.

 

I really like #650 in the martini glass, with the wash. It has a sweet vibrancy to it that's pleasing.

 

Thanks again for the scans, especially the delicious first one. I see what you mean about having a bunch of colours and shades on the same page!

[pgcauk]

There are three inks where I felt compelled to hoard a second bottle;

Scabiosa, which was my first love and such a winner that I had it in a pen for five years straight and only recently started exploring other violets. I must admit the fresh color, which seems much bluer before it ages, is the more delightful to me, which is probably why I am putzing around with #650 and its ilk!

Kobe #49. I tried 10,000 greens before this and was never quite happy, then this slipped into being my daily writing ink without me even liking it! I am rotating my greens now and think green is an area that benefits from variety (probably blue would too, but I don't use blue!), but it's fun to play "If you could only have one...?"

Rouille D'Ancre. I have now replaced this with Kobe #54, and also developed a palette of rusts and burnt oranges, but this was my other "always at hand" in the early years, often in multiple pens (with different nib types) at a time, so I still have a spare bottle.

 

I have also accumulated quite a collection of Taupes. Once I found Kobe #40 I was happy for that to become "my brown". Prior favorite was probably R&K Sepia. This is recent enough, and I have so many alternatives, that I haven't ordered a second #40 yet, but I'm fairly sure that I'll stick with it.

 

The rest is variations, but that's my basic needs and cosmology met:

Violet for ideas, wishes and dreams.

Green for observations.

Brown for stuff you feel you can rely on.

An active color for activities, amendments and revisions.

[airstairesc]

3 hours ago, pgcauk said:

There are three inks where I felt compelled to hoard a second bottle;

Scabiosa, which was my first love and such a winner that I had it in a pen for five years straight and only recently started exploring other violets. I must admit the fresh color, which seems much bluer before it ages, is the more delightful to me, which is probably why I am putzing around with #650 and its ilk!

Kobe #49. I tried 10,000 greens before this and was never quite happy, then this slipped into being my daily writing ink without me even liking it! I am rotating my greens now and think green is an area that benefits from variety (probably blue would too, but I don't use blue!), but it's fun to play "If you could only have one...?"

Rouille D'Ancre. I have now replaced this with Kobe #54, and also developed a palette of rusts and burnt oranges, but this was my other "always at hand" in the early years, often in multiple pens (with different nib types) at a time, so I still have a spare bottle.

 

I have also accumulated quite a collection of Taupes. Once I found Kobe #40 I was happy for that to become "my brown". Prior favorite was probably R&K Sepia. This is recent enough, and I have so many alternatives, that I haven't ordered a second #40 yet, but I'm fairly sure that I'll stick with it.

 

The rest is variations, but that's my basic needs and cosmology met:

Violet for ideas, wishes and dreams.

Green for observations.

Brown for stuff you feel you can rely on.

An active color for activities, amendments and revisions.

 

Interesting that you don't use blue! Do you use it in other things, like artwork? Do you have a favourite colour, in general?

 

I like your ink designation system. What do you use burnt orangey-reds for? What designation does Rouille D'Ancre and #54 get? Both are beautiful colours.

 

Interesting that you use greens for observations. It's known to be an intellectually stimulating colour. And orange-reds are known to stimulate appetite, which makes sense because I got hungry when I saw your pimiento! And violet/purples do seem like the idealists.

 

R & K Sepia is great. I use mine quite a lot for letters and sketches. I am drawn to taupes, one reason being I like ivory/bone/off-white paper. I also have two Birmingham's: Antique Sepia (sort of taupe-ish) and Eroded Bronze. They're such strange colours. Even when they're on the page, they're distant. I got them just because, but I think they're most suited for a dream journal made with Tomoe paper. I feel two ways about how exclusively well-paired they are with Tomoe given the recent changes to the paper.

 

Which is your least-used green?

[pgcauk]

51 minutes ago, airstairesc said:

Which is your least-used green?

I am enjoying letting the colors educate me, and the nibs teach me how to write (the Gin Martini is a scrawl with my regular flow, it requires discipline, which benefits all my other pens!), but just taking Green as a topic - do you like lists?
I think my first order, or near upfront, included Scabiosa, which has my loyalty to the end, Autumn Oak, which I still have a huge admiration for, and KWZ IG Green #4 . . . which wasn't quite what I was looking for (although it's a great green!). So . . . 

Alt Gold Grun? Fabulous, but not my fabulous!

Salamander? The right idea but . . . 

Robert Oster Khakhi, Jade and Moss: I bought all three! That Khakhi is so strange! Moss is close but just too Blue so . . .

Burma Road

El Lawrence

Muschiato

Safari . . . buying frenzy! Muschiato I keep inked in a Fude De Mannen at all times. Burma is a great ink but the bridesmaid, so who is the bride?

Tokiwa Matsu? Just no (for me!)

 

I think the Kobe's came in about this point and they are magnificent. I recently splashed out on Ink Studio #967, which is a great dark yellow green, but in comparison to the Kobe's it's a cartoon! 

 

I do like Diamine Classic Green.

Oh, there was a Birmingham Interlude, Fern Moss and Arugula are very nice, and they're local and affordable, but they're not Japanese inks - ouch!

. . . and so many rejected samples!

[pgcauk]

1 hour ago, airstairesc said:

Interesting that you don't use blue! Do you use it in other things, like artwork?

I have a sky-blue hemp jacket from De Ionescu in Transylvania that makes me very happy!

 

- but otherwise no - it's just an advanced guard for purple (which is the rear guard for red)!

I understand its appeal, and history, but it's common now, so I'm moving on!

[pgcauk]

1 hour ago, airstairesc said:

What do you use burnt orangey-reds for?

Regrets. Hope is Pink!

 

Regrets fall down like leaves in Fall,

Hope rises up like bulbs in Spring.

I have my latest cosmology here:  https://www.artmajeur.com/philip-guest

[pgcauk]

https://www.artmajeur.com/en/philip-guest/artworks/15419497/cosmology-22-09

[PithyProlix]

8 hours ago, airstairesc said:

The use of the word "selfless" is perfect!

 

 

I've thought a bit about what sorts of properties make an ink color preferable for 'normal' writing use, at least for me. What I hit upon is an analogy with Brian Eno's 'Ambient Music'. Here are some quotes from his "Music for Airports" liner notes (1978):

• An ambience is defined as an atmosphere, or a surrounding influence: a tint. 
• [Contrasting with Muzak, i. e. 'elevator music'.] Whereas the extant canned music companies proceed from the basis of regularizing environments by blanketing their acoustic and atmospheric idiosyncracies, Ambient Music is intended to enhance these. Whereas conventional background music is produced by stripping away all sense of doubt and uncertainty (and thus all genuine interest) from the music, Ambient Music retains these qualities. And whereas their intention is to `brighten' the environment by adding stimulus to it (thus supposedly alleviating the tedium of routine tasks and levelling out the natural ups and downs of the body rhythms) Ambient Music is intended to induce calm and a space to think.
• Ambient Music must be able to accommodate many levels of listening attention without enforcing one in particular; it must be as ignorable as it is interesting.

 

[I am loving this conversation and @pgcauk's images, by the way.] 

[pgcauk]

Thank you PithyP!

I thought the ambient album "On Land" was particularly good, both gentle background and profoundly moving in the story (I imagined) it told.

Mr Eno happened to be my external examiner at art school - I was a bit surprised how thrilling that was!

I too am enjoying this conversation. Feels like what we hoped the Internet would enable. Sad that some countries are walling this possibility off now. The bad stuff can be really quite toxic, but I hope (in pink) that it doesn't win!

[PithyProlix]

20 minutes ago, pgcauk said:

I thought the ambient album "On Land" was particularly good, both gentle background and profoundly moving in the story (I imagined) it told.

 

On Land was my first Eno record. I spent many late, dark evenings with that music ... or 'in it', rather. Music with an undertone of Cassis (or, perhaps, Chushu, as you say).

 

20 minutes ago, pgcauk said:

Mr Eno happened to be my external examiner at art school - I was a bit surprised how thrilling that was!

 

Wow!

[pgcauk]

3 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

Wow!

He wasn't wearing leopard skin pants, just a regular jacket, but it was the closest I've come to a celebrity experience - and I live in LA, hard to move without bumping into some media star (that means nothing to me)!

[airstairesc]

17 hours ago, pgcauk said:

 

it's just an advanced guard for purple
 

 

Hahaha! That would make an excellent subtitle for a biography* on the colour blue.

 

*a scathing one

 

17 hours ago, pgcauk said:

Regrets. Hope is Pink!

 

Regrets fall down like leaves in Fall,

Hope rises up like bulbs in Spring.

I have my latest cosmology here:  https://www.artmajeur.com/philip-guest

 

This makes me want a pink ink.

 

17 hours ago, pgcauk said:

https://www.artmajeur.com/en/philip-guest/artworks/15419497/cosmology-22-09

 

Thank you for sharing these links! I spent a good deal of time there yesterday evening. Where is that Tranquility quote from?

[airstairesc]

17 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

 

I've thought a bit about what sorts of properties make an ink color preferable for 'normal' writing use, at least for me. What I hit upon is an analogy with Brian Eno's 'Ambient Music'. Here are some quotes from his "Music for Airports" liner notes (1978):

• An ambience is defined as an atmosphere, or a surrounding influence: a tint. 
• [Contrasting with Muzak, i. e. 'elevator music'.] Whereas the extant canned music companies proceed from the basis of regularizing environments by blanketing their acoustic and atmospheric idiosyncracies, Ambient Music is intended to enhance these. Whereas conventional background music is produced by stripping away all sense of doubt and uncertainty (and thus all genuine interest) from the music, Ambient Music retains these qualities. And whereas their intention is to `brighten' the environment by adding stimulus to it (thus supposedly alleviating the tedium of routine tasks and levelling out the natural ups and downs of the body rhythms) Ambient Music is intended to induce calm and a space to think.
• Ambient Music must be able to accommodate many levels of listening attention without enforcing one in particular; it must be as ignorable as it is interesting.

 

[I am loving this conversation and @pgcauk's images, by the way.] 

 

I really like how this conversation about colour has taken on an auditory dimension by way of Brian Eno. Thank you for this. @pgcauk's images are inspiring and also unsettling (in a good way) because I hadn't thought of letting the colours teach me before.

[airstairesc]

8 hours ago, pgcauk said:

Thank you PithyP!

I thought the ambient album "On Land" was particularly good, both gentle background and profoundly moving in the story (I imagined) it told.

Mr Eno happened to be my external examiner at art school - I was a bit surprised how thrilling that was!

I too am enjoying this conversation. Feels like what we hoped the Internet would enable. Sad that some countries are walling this possibility off now. The bad stuff can be really quite toxic, but I hope (in pink) that it doesn't win!

 

7 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

 

On Land was my first Eno record. I spent many late, dark evenings with that music ... or 'in it', rather. Music with an undertone of Cassis (or, perhaps, Chushu, as you say).

 

 

Wow!

 

I know Brian Eno's work is really well-known, but On Land was also my first (and only) Brian Eno album. I was browsing at an HMV and was taken by the album artwork and bought it based on that. I had never listened to Ambient before. It was an unsettling album, but I loved it.

 

I also really like Murcof, whose work is categorized as Electronica but is also really Ambient. I bought my first Murcof album, again, based on the album artwork.

 

3 hours ago, pgcauk said:

He wasn't wearing leopard skin pants, just a regular jacket, but it was the closest I've come to a celebrity experience - and I live in LA, hard to move without bumping into some media star (that means nothing to me)!

 

What colour was his jacket?