Objectively, How Thin Or Thick A Line Do You Require Your Nibs To Produce?

[miwishi63]

Writing 鬢 is far more challenging, even though it only comprises 24 pen-strokes (as opposed to 36 in 齉). It requires about 24 to 25 horizontal partitions of the em-space, or as a loose equivalent, drawing 13 distinct parallel horizontal lines with a steady hand, so the line width cannot be thicker than 0.2mm.

 

 

 

Thanks. Are those line widths expressed in millimetres, centimetres, or some other unit of measurement?

 

Based on the fact that my measurements come from Asian writing instruments, I'm going to assume it's millimeters.

[A Smug Dill]

Based on the fact that my measurements come from Asian writing instruments, I'm going to assume it's millimeters.

 

 

I've never come across any writing instrument (including technical pens, outside of things used in highly specialised laboratories, etc.) that is specified or marketed as being finer than 0.05mm, when 0.1mm is considered 'needlepoint' for fountain pen nibs. ".02-.03" would be very fine indeed.

[DrDebG]

Thank you for your clarification.

 

In general, for my basic day to day writing, I prefer my downstroke lines to be "wide" - probably between 0.7 and 1.2, where as my horizontal lines to be somewhere between 0.3 and 0.5. These are approximate and will vary depending upon my writing.

 

In my work, I draft flowcharts and other illustrations with descriptions. In these, I generally prefer an even thicker line.

 

Beyond these very general dimensions, I do not take much further regard.

[kmcmichael]

While certainly not the penman I believe many of you to be, I like big nibs. I find a 1.1 about perfect for a lined A-5, skipping a line each time. I have a MB 149 BB that writes about the same. If I were still signing documents regularly and not using a stamp, I would use a 1.9mm. I believe that I do have a rather light touch

[miwishi63]

 

 

I've never come across any writing instrument (including technical pens, outside of things used in highly specialised laboratories, etc.) that is specified or marketed as being finer than 0.05mm, when 0.1mm is considered 'needlepoint' for fountain pen nibs. ".02-.03" would be very fine indeed.

 

Thanks for pointing that out! This is why I never try to build anything. The nibs on the Preppies I have are marked 02, 03, and 05. Don't know what that means except that they are designate EF, F, and M.

 

Mike

[A Smug Dill]

The nibs on the Preppies I have are marked 02, 03, and 05. Don't know what that means except that they are designate EF, F, and M.

It's apparently Platinum's practice not to use a decimal point when denoting the sizes of its pens' and nibs' points. Just about any other pen manufacturer, would have written 0.2, 0.3 and 0.5(mm) instead. You're correct in your interpretation, though. I think Platinum was trying to increase the appeal of Preppy pens to the average consumer by making them look like any number of disposable marker pens in the same price range, including marking the 'point size' of the pens in a similar way. I'm confident that, when used with the supplied ink cartridge, a Preppy with an 02 nib is expected to produce a line similar in width to a 0.2mm marker pen.

[BaronWulfraed]

Just don't think Platinum's 02/03/05 carry over to things like Pigma Micron drawing pens, wherein

 

005 => 0.20mm

01 => 0.25mm

03 => 0.35mm

[miwishi63]

It's apparently Platinum's practice not to use a decimal point when denoting the sizes of its pens' and nibs' points. Just about any other pen manufacturer, would have written 0.2, 0.3 and 0.5(mm) instead. You're correct in your interpretation, though. I think Platinum was trying to increase the appeal of Preppy pens to the average consumer by making them look like any number of disposable marker pens in the same price range, including marking the 'point size' of the pens in a similar way. I'm confident that, when used with the supplied ink cartridge, a Preppy with an 02 nib is expected to produce a line similar in width to a 0.2mm marker pen.

 

Makes sense. Thanks! I enjoy using the 0.2, but only for writing, not sketching. It does indeed. make an extremely fine line when used with Platinum ink cartridges.

[Honeybadgers]

I love a super wet needlepoint. it sounds like an oxymoron, but some pens can leave a bead of ink sitting on the page that's just a gnat's d**k across. My custom superflex XXF 14k nib does that better than any other nib I own. I have a sheaffer snorkel X4 that can as well.

 

Japanese F is about as wide as I really like in daily writing. I tend to prefer EF or narrower than that. Western, EF every time unless I'm getting something special. After an EF, I go to the extreme other end and jump on the B and BB

 

So if you need a loupe and a micrometer to measure the line width, that's about where I like it.

[Sicblades14]

After testing out many different types of pens and line widths - the absolute widest I can use is 0.5mm, which is about a western Extra Fine, but I usually prefer 0.38 or 0.28 which ends up leaving me with my EDCs; my PCH912 PO Nib and the Preppy 02 EF.

 

I can sometimes use a Sailor M nib, but that is rare, and I usually only use it for titles or highlighting important info on my page.

[A Smug Dill]

Thank you, Sicblades14.

 

Have you tried a Sailor 14K gold H-MF nib? The two I have are surprisingly fine. Even the steel MF nibs on my cheap Sailor Lecoule pens leave reasonably narrow lines, though.

[Sicblades14]

Thank you, Sicblades14.

 

Have you tried a Sailor 14K gold H-MF nib? The two I have are surprisingly fine. Even the steel MF nibs on my cheap Sailor Lecoule pens leave reasonably narrow lines, though.

 

I haven't tried that one, though I have a Pro Gear Demonstrator with a H-M nib that I don't mind using, but it is on the wider end of what I typically enjoy using.

[BaronWulfraed]

After testing out many different types of pens and line widths - the absolute widest I can use is 0.5mm, which is about a western Extra Fine, but I usually prefer 0.38 or 0.28 which ends up leaving me with my EDCs; my PCH912 PO Nib and the Preppy 02 EF.

You seem to have some fat pens or very absorbent (spreading) paper...

 

My currently inked "western" nib pens (vertical x horizontal - optical comparator, using metric scale [inch scale reads finer, the metric is marked at 0.2 increments, so I'm having to estimate the splits], on Levenger recycled 3x5 note cards)

 

Lamy Al-Star M 0.5x0.4

Sheaffer Stylist/Imperial (727/777?) B 0.7x0.6

Esterbrook 9556 "Firm Fine" 0.5x0.3

Esterbrook 2668 "Firm Medium" 0.6x0.5

 

and for giggles

 

Lamy Joy 1.1 italic 0.7x0.0.3

 

inked Japanese nibs:

 

Platinum President M 0.3x0.2

Pilot Falcon SB 0.8x0.4

Pilot Custom 912 FA (no pressure) 0.2x0.2 (pressure) 0.9x0.4

 

In my hands, Lamy Medium and Esterbrook Fine both meet your upper limit -- what you describe as an Extra Fine nib. Note that even the "1.1" italic only produced a 0.7mm line for me.

[Sicblades14]

You seem to have some fat pens or very absorbent (spreading) paper...

 

My currently inked "western" nib pens (vertical x horizontal - optical comparator, using metric scale [inch scale reads finer, the metric is marked at 0.2 increments, so I'm having to estimate the splits], on Levenger recycled 3x5 note cards)

 

Lamy Al-Star M 0.5x0.4

Sheaffer Stylist/Imperial (727/777?) B 0.7x0.6

Esterbrook 9556 "Firm Fine" 0.5x0.3

Esterbrook 2668 "Firm Medium" 0.6x0.5

 

and for giggles

 

Lamy Joy 1.1 italic 0.7x0.0.3

 

inked Japanese nibs:

 

Platinum President M 0.3x0.2

Pilot Falcon SB 0.8x0.4

Pilot Custom 912 FA (no pressure) 0.2x0.2 (pressure) 0.9x0.4

 

In my hands, Lamy Medium and Esterbrook Fine both meet your upper limit -- what you describe as an Extra Fine nib. Note that even the "1.1" italic only produced a 0.7mm line for me.

 

Maybe you have less pressure than I do when writing - and I typically write on Rhodia pads, or some TR sheets. I tend to write on the really small side though

 

For every day note taking I use my PO nib, and the preppy 02. I tried a Lamy M and it was too wide for my liking, but I guess I can see the appeal for those who write bigger than I do.

[mke]

On 2/17/2019 at 5:34 PM, minddance said:

B5 papers

On 2/19/2019 at 9:52 AM, A Smug Dill said:

How thin or thick do you require the lines to be, irrespective of how the nib width is graded and/or marked?

All values are for Waterman Serenity Blue, my most preferred ink - and Maruman Loose Leaf as paper.

I write on B5 or A5. Jowo 18k EF (0.3-0.35 mm?) is the upper limit. Hongdian EF (~0.25 mm?) is the optimum and Jowo steel or Bock Pt950 regrinded to XXF (0.2 mm) is the lower limit for normal writing.

I might commission regrinds of many of my M nibs to that 0.25 mm if the price is acceptable or I simply sell the pens.

Variation of thickness (i.e. stub or architect) is not welcome. I realized that flex is also not my thing.

[mke]

On 2/23/2019 at 4:58 AM, BaronWulfraed said:

the absolute widest I can use is 0.5mm, which is about a western Extra Fine

0.5 mm is a line size which even Pelikan would describe as M - see link below

0.4 mm is F and probably Sailor MF or M

0.35 mm is more Western EF as well as Japanese F

https://goldspot.com/blogs/magazine/pelikan-classic-205-fountain-pen-nib-comparison

0.25-0.3 might be Japanese EF (Sailor, Pilot, Platinum)

0.18 is said to be Platinum UEF

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, mke said:

0.5 mm is a line size which even Pelikan would describe as M - see link below

 

I don't think that was what Pelikan the pen manufacturer said (or wrote, published or advertised).

 

Tom, who did the demonstration for Goldspot, does not work for or speak for Pelikan.

 

https://archive.pelikan.com/pulse/Pulsar/en_US_INTL.CMS.displayCMS.252359./choosing-the-right-nib

Quote

If your handwriting is small or tight, or if you write in Asian letters, then the nib sizes EF (extra fine) or F (fine) are advisable. If you write with big letters or if you’re looking for a nice signature pen, then the nib sizes M (medium) or B (broad) are advisable.

 

[Distaff]

On 2/19/2019 at 11:59 AM, BaronWulfraed said:

Just don't think Platinum's 02/03/05 carry over to things like Pigma Micron drawing pens, wherein

 

005 => 0.20mm

01 => 0.25mm

03 => 0.35mm

I've sunk more money than I care to think about into fountain pens, but Pigma Microns are still my favorite pens.   

 

I got started with them because I needed something fine for marking hand pieced quilt blocks that wouldn't show through to the right side on light colored cotton fabric.  The 005 (0.2mm) is perfect for that.   The 03 (0.35mm shows up better on darker fabrics, but I really prefer the precision of the 005, so the skinnier line pens in the pack always get used up first, particularly once I realized I liked writing with them - which I don't think they are really made for. 

[awa54]

While I enjoy using broader nibs on occasion (above 0.7mm), I prefer the EF-FM range and will preferentially use those widths for the majority of my everyday writing, which is mostly short notations detailing needed repairs or product orders in a service/retail setting. The "job cards" I use have no lines, so aside from the need to fit the entirety of a repair order on the card, I have no constraints on the size of my handwriting.

That said, I practice my handwriting and generally doodle on dot pad most of the time and with a fine or extra fine nib my handwriting naturally gravitates to a size that comfortably fits within the space of one grid increment. 

 

Medium nibs limit my ability to make detailed illustrations and force my writing to scale up in order to remain crisply legible, broad nibs take that even a step farther, so those see far less use than my finer ones.

 

In short, as an exclusive writer of the English language, I don't "require" any particular nib specification and enjoy pretty much any nib that has the ability to write functionally, without being scratchy on the page, or demanding rigid angle control (I'm no calligrapher!). 

Of more value than a specific line width (within reason) is smoothness, acceptable function with a variety of inks (usually more of a feed attribute) and a bit of flex, or "stubbiness" to allow some line width variation.

 

If I was strictly using a fountain pen for utility and had no interest in their history, or the great variety in which they have been made, then an Asian fine, or vintage American fine would be my choice for the one nib that best fit my needs. I could easily make do with a modern/European fine as well.

[txomsy]

Depends.

 

For quick note taking, a thin line (EF or EEF).

 

For communication, a middle width (F or M).

 

For calligraphy, a flex or an italic (depending on script), whose width may range from 0.6 to 1.5.

 

But that is all (bleep) on modern paper. An F can write like a B on modern copy paper, and an EEF may become too scratchy or feather badly. On good paper, a B can behave like an M sometimes.

 

So, whether the nib produces a thinner or thicker line is secondary to all other factors (including pen wetness, ink wetness, paper quality, circumstances and goals (among many others).