Making Pilot Blue Black Wetter?

[khalameet]

Hello!

 

Yes, the title is correct. Instead of making a pen wetter, I want to make an ink wetter.

I have a Custom 823 with a already very wet medium nib. It is in fact so wet, that Diamine Midnight comes out almost always black. No shading, just black and sheen and no sign of blue. The same with Diamine Blue Black.

Herbin Bleu Nuit leaves a so saturated line that it just does not shade. The pen is very wet as you can see.

 

Now, I love Pilot Blue Black, but this ink is just too pale in this pen. The first two words are a lovely, deep and dark blue with black hints. But the following lines tend to be a pale grey-blue.

I would like the ink to perform darker in this pen.

 

I see so many reviews showing the ink in such amazing and saturated colour, like this one: https://www.penucopia.com/pilot-blue-black-my-favorite-ink

My two bottles are nowhere near that. Mostly pale and flat, which is a shame, as the bottle is the best one to fill the 823 from.

 

I read something about adding a drop of liquid soap to the ink. But I'm not very convinced to do this.

Has anyone any ideas what I could do that the ink gets a little bit more colour?

 

And by the way, the papers I use are either Rhodia, Clairefontaine 90g/m^2 collegebooks or "C by Clairefontaine" 100g which are all three very nice and well suited for fountain pens (as pretty much everyone here surely knows).

Edited February 15, 2019 by khalameet

[minddance]

many reviews disappointed me. and they still do. and I mean inks and pens reviews. and I feel deeply cheated. you are not alone.

 

as for your title, these are wet inks in that they flow fluently. no problem with flow at all. the problem is what flows out. what flows out is a watered-down, paper-repelling ink. and you will need a lot of that ink to make it look like what you (and I) want.

 

solution to your problem:

 

a drop of liquid soap is way too much for a barrel of ink, and possibly a bottle of it. you will get bubbles and some fragrance. dip the tip of a toothpick dipped in detergent and then into the pen barrel or an ink container. same goes for Kodak Photoflo. you will immediately see the ink move and change as soon as the tip of the toothpick touches the ink.

 

absorbent papers or Kodak photoflo. but Kodak photoflo will change the behaviour of inks, especially Japanese inks. very little of it (low concentration) is needed.

 

or, to be safe and less adventurous, allow the ink to evaporate - in your pen or somewhere else.

 

pilot blue and blue black are not saturated inks and can look quite pale and watered down in some (many) pens. and they seem to very much repel papers. to make matters worse, Rhodia and Clairefontaine aren't the friendliest papers with these inks, in that they do not allow inks to penetrate.

 

I do not use Rhodia and Clairefontaine and I do not think these papers are "well suited for fountain pens" at all.

 

pilot inks, especially blue and blue black, perform very underwhelmingly (ironically) in many of Pilot's own pens.

 

they work with broader and wetter nibs. I have had pretty good results with Blue and BBlack in Pilot Prera CM nib and Pluminix B (italic) nib on absorbent papers. or for Rhodia to work, the ink must be allowed to 'settle' in these ill-sealing pens so that some of it gets evaporated for a good few days.

 

but I am sure your Pilot 823 seals inks very well.

 

have fun and please let us know what helps you eventually

 

(Pilot really ought to reformulate Blue and BlueBlack, seriously. and Chiku Rin and Fuyu Syogun and what not, I don't want to start.)

Edited February 15, 2019 by minddance

[Carrau]

I use Pilot BB as my everyday ink, usually in broader nibs, and its fine. Inks I find to be dry (like many Robert Oster inks), I have had good success with the solution recommended by minddance: dipping a toothpick in Dawn or Photoflo, then into a sample vial of the ink I plan to alter. Then I label it so I know its the adulterated version. It has transformed my writing experience for several drier inks. By the way, I hope if youre using Pilot BB youre buying it in the 350ml bottles: under $25 for that big bottle. Good luck.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Herrjaeger

[khalameet]

Well, at the moment I have two 70ml bottles, but if I get some more colour out of the ink, I would love to order one of the big bottles (been planning this for some time now).

But I thought maybe there was a hidden option I am not considering or maybe there is something wrong with my pens or whatever.

 

I begin to suspect that the ink just is the way it is. So the colour stays the same and really, all the tinkering bothers me too much. I want an ink which just works out of the bottle and pleases my eye. And I think that Pilot Blue Black does not get me there.

 

But then the journey goes on. An ink with comparable performance profile is hard to find. I considered Herbin Bleu Nuit, but the colour is only "nice" to me.

I seem to run out of alternatives here

 

Edit: Herbin Bleu des Profondeurs seems to be quite nice. But there is only one (although excellent) review here.

I would like to see some more of this ink.

I could order a sample but in germany samples are not easy to find and I don't like to order only one sample online before I am not entirely convinced.

And I forgot something: The 823 is almost impossible to fill from the Herbin bottles.

Edited February 15, 2019 by khalameet

[ehemem]

Maybe you should consider mixing some Pilot Black into your Blue Black until you get something more to your taste...

[khalameet]

Well, I already tried that. The problem is, that does not make the ink itself darker, the ink gets more dark grey/black and less blue. And that is not what I want. I want this dark and deep blue.

[cellmatrix]

I've always found pilot blue black to flow really well, especially in pilot pens, so I suspect it may be your pen that is the issue. Maybe the diamine and other inks worked well in the past but your pen is now clogged so that your pilot ink is not flowing in it. Trying giving your pen a good soaking in dilute ammonia and a good ultrasound treatment, or try cleaning it with rapid-eaze pen cleaner that you can get in an art store. Its a shame you can't use pilot ink in a pilot pen, but I bet if you give it a good cleaning it will help, good luck!

[Mechayoshi]

I have this ink. While the lighter shades will be pale, you should have a decently dark blue if using a medium nib. See here.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Mechayoshi

[TSherbs]

This ink is always too pale for me. I actually don't trust the pics that show otherwise. I moved on to other inks.

 

And the soap trick won't do what you want. Sell those inks and get something that gives you what you want without mixing/doctoring.

[khalameet]

But then again, which ink to pick?

 

Most Diamine inks are no option for me, not necessarily because they are not water resistant, but the smearing of those inks even after they are dry for hours just bothers me too much.

 

Souboku is almost impossible to get here, and the colour does not appeal me.

 

I don't know a blue black which is as nice as the Pilot (or rather as it could be). Only ink which would really be my favourite is the Platinum blue black, but that one is way too dry in this particular pen

 

Ironically, Herbin would be something which I like and I would love to try out Bleu des Profondeurs. But the 823 is impossible to fill from these bottles, which is a shame. And instant rebottling of the inks is also...not the best thing IMO.

Edited February 16, 2019 by khalameet

[Mechayoshi]

Noodlers blue black is very wet in my Pelikan m205 with a fine nib. It's darker than the pilot ink,, just be aware that there's a hint of teal in it.

[TSherbs]

Khalameet, have you looked at various swatch comparisons of blueback? Jetpens and andersonpens and Gouletpens and some individuals here in threads have done some large blue black comparisons.

 

I have tried many samples. I want a darkish blue black that is not too blue (Diamine midnight has too much blue in it for me) and not teal. My three favorites are Noodler's Denim, Hero 232, and Diamine Registrar's Blue-Black. The latter two are IG inks, so be advised.

[khalameet]

I just ordered samples of the following:

 

Herbin Eclat de Saphir and Bleu des Profondeurs

Iroshizuku Shin-Kai, Asa-Gao and Kon-Peki

Monteverde Ocean Noir and Sapphire

 

Not all of these inks are necessarily dark, but maybe it is time to experiment a little bit!

I am especially curious about the Monteverde inks. But it is a shame that these are hard to obtain in Germany (and only are available in the small 30ml bottles).

Edited February 17, 2019 by khalameet

[minddance]

While you are at it, order some Rohrer and Klingner Verdigris. It flows most beautifully and reduces feedback on some nibs.

[khalameet]

Thanks, I already have Verdigris.

Unfortunately I don't like the colour because I dislike those green or teal leaning blue blacks in general.

Good properties though, like all their inks have. Leipziger Schwarz is too black, it has only faint hints of blue or green tones. Well, Schwarz means black after all

Salix is IG, and I don't want to use IG inks in my 823 because it is not very convenient to clean. I have dedicated a TWSBI 580 to this ink though.

 

After all it is sad that there is no ink by R&K which offers what I want, because all their inks can be had for 3,50€ per bottle in Germany (about 4$).

[TSherbs]

If you are in Germany, then why not Pelikan 4001 blue-black? Have you tried it?

[khalameet]

Yes I have a bottle of it already. But this ink is too dry in this pen and I don't enjoy the way the pen writes filled with it

 

Edit: One more question @minddance: what papers do you think are best for inks? Everyone talks about Rhodia and such, so I thought these are the papers of choice.

Edited February 17, 2019 by khalameet

[TSherbs]

Well, good luck with your new samples.

[cellmatrix]

Yes I have a bottle of it already. But this ink is too dry in this pen and I don't enjoy the way the pen writes filled with it

 

Edit: One more question @minddance: what papers do you think are best for inks? Everyone talks about Rhodia and such, so I thought these are the papers of choice.

 

just a quick question, are you consistently unscrewing the blind cap of the 823 every time? If you don't do this the flow is going to be affected and make your pen write wet sometimes and drier other times depending on whether you unscrew or don't unscrew your blind cap while writing. Also as I had mentioned earlier it wouldn't hurt to try cleaning your pen to see if that helps your pen write less dry with inks like pilot blue black, which should be giving good flow in a pilot pen like the 823.

 

As far as papers,

 

1) rhodia (the standard version) in my experience is not so absorbent and as a consequence gives tight lines and it also has a bit of feedback (its what I prefer).

2) There is a premium rhodia which is smoother

3) Clairefontaine is non-absorbent but its a little smoother than standard rhodia making it more similar to rhodia premium.

4) Tomoe river is more absorbent, produces much more line spreading and gives wider lines with much less feedback than standard rhodia.

5) Most japanese papers such as maruman and apica are between standard rhodia and tomoe in terms of absorbance and smoothness.

6) Life paper, another japanese brand, is a less absorbent paper, and has a bit of feedback making it closer to standard rhodia.

 

Another point - In general the less absorbent papers like rhodia, clairefontaine and life give better shading, while more absorbent papers like tomoe produce some shading but noticeably less than rhodia and clairefontaine. In general I like shading (as long as its not overdone) because it makes your writing look like it was produced by a fountain pen instead of a gel pen. Its an acquired taste that others here may not share, at least not yet!

 

Another point, it really depends on the ink and pen you are using as to how well the paper will complement it. Some papers work better for some pen/ink combinations other work poorly. Also it depends on your writing style, if you press down hard, then paper is going to seem more scratchy and you will want to gravitate towards smoother papers. If you have a light touch, then you might better appreciate those papers that have a bit of feedback to help guide your hand.

 

Another point, as you will come to know on FPN, if you haven't already, frequent posters here have their own opinions and so keep in mind this is just my opinion I've developed over a number of years- your mileage may vary!

 

I hope this is helpful

[khalameet]

Yes, I unscrew the blind cap every time I pick the pen up. Unless I only write two words and put it aside for longer time.

 

Okay, then I will continue to use the Clairefontaine papers I already have because I really like them.

 

As far as pen cleaning is concerned, I rinse the pens with tap water until the water comes out clear. After that I fill them with the cleaning solution available by Rohrer & Klinger (it's a fountain pen cleaner, developed for their Dokumentus line I believe), let that soak for 5 minutes and clean the pen from this solution. Finally I fill the pen once more with tap water and let this water be soaked out by paper towels with the pen stored nib down on them. So I think it is not as good as with an ultrasound cleaner, but it should be almost clean. At least the last fill with water on the paper towel shows no visible trace of any colour.