Mb 149 Expression Nib - Calligraphy?

[Solitaire146]

By the looks of many of the reviews on this thread, I question whether the recent flexible nib line of Montblancs is worth it. Looks like a lot of buyer's remorse or disappointment. Hopefully Montblanc can put more resources into continuing to improve on the reliability of their writing instruments for all different types of users.

[arcfide]

By the looks of many of the reviews on this thread, I question whether the recent flexible nib line of Montblancs is worth it. Looks like a lot of buyer's remorse or disappointment. Hopefully Montblanc can put more resources into continuing to improve on the reliability of their writing instruments for all different types of users.

 

There's a reason that most manufacturers stepped away from using flexible nibs in their lineups, and why they were falling out of popularity even back in the era of steel nibbed dip pens.

 

The key here is "all different types of users." What people want, and sometimes think is something they should be able to have, is a pen that writes as smoothly as a round point stiff nib, as wet as a broad nib, as hairline as a classic Spencerian pen, as springy and flexible and responsive as a steel nib, as beautiful as anything Montblanc has every made, as big as a #50 Namiki nib, as resistant to drying as a Platinum slip and seal, as durable as a thick steel nib, and as easily used in rapid writing for daily use as a Lamy ball point nib.

 

However, in reality, that's just not possible. You can't make a nib that is suitable for all different types of users. The reason that manufacturers don't produce more flex nibs is that they are very difficult to get right, and even if you do get them right, they are very sensitive to the end user's style, and very often one style of flex nib will not work well for another user. With a round point stiff nib, you're getting a smooth experience that results in a very consistent behavior that is exceptionally forgiving and can be easily adapted to a wide array of circumstances. Moreover, it's more durable, less susceptible to breaking, and less likely to require the user to alter their behavior and style of writing to use well. Therefore, while it might not inspire some people with its epic beauty and potential, it's also not as likely to disappoint. It's also not as likely to result in returns to the manufacturer.

 

But let's say that you make your flex nib very flexible, which some manufacturers tried. The result was that the nib was springing too much in the hands of normal users trained on today's writing implements. Well, that's a no go for business. If you make it a wet noodle, then you lose the ability to make hair lines, which is what some people require for Spencerian from a flex nib. If you make it capable of hair lines, then you have to choose how to get there. If you make the needle point exceptionally precise, you can mimic the behavior of a steel pen quite authentically, but the result is a pen that will destroy itself and the paper the first time someone writes in the incorrect way that doesn't know what they are doing. And if you get that beautiful hairline with a needlepoint, then you had better have a very excellent hand to be able to write fast with it as a daily writer, and mot people's daily writing hand would quickly destroy such a nib.

 

If you make it smoother and rounder in the tip, such as what MB has done, well, you have to get that thin line somehow, and that means restricting the flow. But that also means that you're going to risk more of a baby's bottom type effect, and it means that the pen will be more sensitive to angles. But the benefit is that the nib is more durable and won't be as poor when writing fast in the untrained hand. If you don't, then you end up with a too wide line that ruins the reason for having a flex pen in the first place.

 

If you look at the way that others have done flex pens in the past, I think you'll find that MB has done a pretty good job. It's fairly consistent, easy to use, has a wide range of line variation, a good fine line, is smooth for its design, beautifully decorated, and more springy and responsive than many others. The cost for all this appears to be that it writes more dryly than some people prefer, and has a smaller sweet spot. But the feed keeps up with the ink flow very well, without destroying the fine line, and the pen still works well enough as a daily writer versus a true Spencerian needlepoint grind, while giving you almost the same effect.

 

The reality is that high-performance flex nibs aren't easy to use, and the definition of high-performance is likely to vary from one artist to the next. Flex pens are not "reliable" in the same way that stiff nibs are, and they can't be.

 

Just as an example, I have a Namiki Falcon with a custom Spencerian grind on it, and it writes a finer line than the MB Flex nib, and arguably springs a little easier, but it lacks the range of pressure levels that the MB nib does, and is exceptionally more delicate. It is not as easy to use, and even though it has a more forgiving sweet spot when unflexed, it is much less forgiving when flexed. The ink flow on the pen is not as good, so while it is consistent in the unflexed mode, it's not as wet in the fully flexed mode, making the MB better for bolder line variation, even though the MB writes drier in the unflexed position versus the Namiki. On some papers, I have to slow way down when writing with the Namiki because the tines will dig into the paper even with proper technique, which is not true for the MB.

 

Flex writing has a romantic appeal, but it is also not the norm for a variety of very legitimate reasons. It's not like we all decided to stop writing that way on a whim. I think some people with buyer's remorse are just rediscovering the trade-offs that come with flex writing, which is that the discipline is much more variable and individual and harder to generalize than ball point nibs.

[Solitaire146]

 

There's a reason that most manufacturers stepped away from using flexible nibs in their lineups, and why they were falling out of popularity even back in the era of steel nibbed dip pens.

 

The key here is "all different types of users." What people want, and sometimes think is something they should be able to have, is a pen that writes as smoothly as a round point stiff nib, as wet as a broad nib, as hairline as a classic Spencerian pen, as springy and flexible and responsive as a steel nib, as beautiful as anything Montblanc has every made, as big as a #50 Namiki nib, as resistant to drying as a Platinum slip and seal, as durable as a thick steel nib, and as easily used in rapid writing for daily use as a Lamy ball point nib.

 

However, in reality, that's just not possible. You can't make a nib that is suitable for all different types of users. The reason that manufacturers don't produce more flex nibs is that they are very difficult to get right, and even if you do get them right, they are very sensitive to the end user's style, and very often one style of flex nib will not work well for another user. With a round point stiff nib, you're getting a smooth experience that results in a very consistent behavior that is exceptionally forgiving and can be easily adapted to a wide array of circumstances. Moreover, it's more durable, less susceptible to breaking, and less likely to require the user to alter their behavior and style of writing to use well. Therefore, while it might not inspire some people with its epic beauty and potential, it's also not as likely to disappoint. It's also not as likely to result in returns to the manufacturer.

 

But let's say that you make your flex nib very flexible, which some manufacturers tried. The result was that the nib was springing too much in the hands of normal users trained on today's writing implements. Well, that's a no go for business. If you make it a wet noodle, then you lose the ability to make hair lines, which is what some people require for Spencerian from a flex nib. If you make it capable of hair lines, then you have to choose how to get there. If you make the needle point exceptionally precise, you can mimic the behavior of a steel pen quite authentically, but the result is a pen that will destroy itself and the paper the first time someone writes in the incorrect way that doesn't know what they are doing. And if you get that beautiful hairline with a needlepoint, then you had better have a very excellent hand to be able to write fast with it as a daily writer, and mot people's daily writing hand would quickly destroy such a nib.

 

If you make it smoother and rounder in the tip, such as what MB has done, well, you have to get that thin line somehow, and that means restricting the flow. But that also means that you're going to risk more of a baby's bottom type effect, and it means that the pen will be more sensitive to angles. But the benefit is that the nib is more durable and won't be as poor when writing fast in the untrained hand. If you don't, then you end up with a too wide line that ruins the reason for having a flex pen in the first place.

 

If you look at the way that others have done flex pens in the past, I think you'll find that MB has done a pretty good job. It's fairly consistent, easy to use, has a wide range of line variation, a good fine line, is smooth for its design, beautifully decorated, and more springy and responsive than many others. The cost for all this appears to be that it writes more dryly than some people prefer, and has a smaller sweet spot. But the feed keeps up with the ink flow very well, without destroying the fine line, and the pen still works well enough as a daily writer versus a true Spencerian needlepoint grind, while giving you almost the same effect.

 

The reality is that high-performance flex nibs aren't easy to use, and the definition of high-performance is likely to vary from one artist to the next. Flex pens are not "reliable" in the same way that stiff nibs are, and they can't be.

 

Just as an example, I have a Namiki Falcon with a custom Spencerian grind on it, and it writes a finer line than the MB Flex nib, and arguably springs a little easier, but it lacks the range of pressure levels that the MB nib does, and is exceptionally more delicate. It is not as easy to use, and even though it has a more forgiving sweet spot when unflexed, it is much less forgiving when flexed. The ink flow on the pen is not as good, so while it is consistent in the unflexed mode, it's not as wet in the fully flexed mode, making the MB better for bolder line variation, even though the MB writes drier in the unflexed position versus the Namiki. On some papers, I have to slow way down when writing with the Namiki because the tines will dig into the paper even with proper technique, which is not true for the MB.

 

Flex writing has a romantic appeal, but it is also not the norm for a variety of very legitimate reasons. It's not like we all decided to stop writing that way on a whim. I think some people with buyer's remorse are just rediscovering the trade-offs that come with flex writing, which is that the discipline is much more variable and individual and harder to generalize than ball point nibs.

Thanks for this very thoughtful response which I agree with. Just a point of clarification: by "for all different types of users," I mean that each user desires something different in their fountain pen nib and MB should continue to invest in resources that allow the user to order a nib that suits their writing preferences. Those who want "springy" nibs should be able to get them that way, those who want scratchy, stiffer nibs should be able to order them that way.

[Vlad Soare]

If you make it smoother and rounder in the tip, such as what MB has done, well, you have to get that thin line somehow, and that means restricting the flow. But that also means that you're going to risk more of a baby's bottom type effect, and it means that the pen will be more sensitive to angles. But the benefit is that the nib is more durable and won't be as poor when writing fast in the untrained hand. If you don't, then you end up with a too wide line that ruins the reason for having a flex pen in the first place.

 

I have no problem with its dryness, in fact I like it like that. And I don't find it that sensitive to angles (or who knows, maybe I just happen to hold it correctly every time). Unflexed, it's perfect for me.

But if you flex it, it becomes not just wider, but wetter as well. And it retains this increased wetness even after you've stopped pressing it down. It takes a long time for it to revert to the original dryness. This makes the beautiful line variation that you see in ads impossible to obtain when you write small.

I can get exquisite line variation with a dip pen even when I write normally (say, three to four millimeters high), but not with the Montblanc. In that size, once I flex the Montblanc I just get something thick and clumsy. And trembly at that, because of the high pressure required.

I want something that flexes at the tiniest suggestion of pressure, something that flexes if you just look at it crossly, and that, once the pressure ceases, reverts to a thin, dry hairline in a millisecond. In other words, I want something that writes like a dip pen. But apparently no one is able to make a fountain pen like that. This Montblanc may be a bit better than others, but it's still a far cry from that.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Vlad Soare

[txomsy]

The problem with trying to satisfy everybody is that it must make business sense.

 

Since MB has become a luxury mark, the demand for their products may not be large enough so that fragmenting their offer may make business sense.

 

If they were to expand their business to offer more affordable products, they might just expand their customer base just enough to justify keeping several (EDIT: additional specialty) nib lines. OTOH, one might argue that since they are a luxury product, they may as well offer specialized nibs and factor in the cost, but then again, some nibs are more oriented to "professional" or "advanced user" type customers, which may not be willing to pay that price bonus for what they perceive as a "utilitarian" tool rather than a "jewelry/vanity" item.

 

FWIW here and in many other places, a significantly large portion of the MB user base are just people who buy their pens as an "investment" and who think they'll multiply the benefit when they later sell those "limited edition" luxury (artistic?) products later. These people do not usually give a dime for the nib, only consider the potential benefit they expect to make in the future.

 

I hate to say this, but if I were to bet, I'd bet one might have more chances with Pelikan or Waterman than with MB. At least Pelikan do also offer entry lines that may educate, build up and drive users to their more expensive lines. It might make sense to talk them into making a "professional" line (with special nibs), specially since once anything is marketed as "pro" or perceived as used by "pros", all aficionados covet it as well.

Edited May 24, 2020 by txomsy

[fpupulin]

 

I have no problem with its dryness, in fact I like it like that. And I don't find it that sensitive to angles (or who knows, maybe I just happen to hold it correctly every time). Unflexed, it's perfect for me.

But if you flex it, it becomes not just wider, but wetter as well. And it retains this increased wetness even after you've stopped pressing it down. It takes a long time for it to revert to the original dryness. This makes the beautiful line variation that you see in ads impossible to obtain when you write small.

I can get exquisite line variation with a dip pen even when I write normally (say, three to four millimeters high), but not with the Montblanc. In that size, once I flex the Montblanc I just get something thick and clumsy. And trembly at that, because of the high pressure required.

[...]

 

 

[Vlad Soare]

Thank you. That looks very nice.

However, that does seem to prove my point. I can see a definite line variation in the capitals (which I'm also able to get, because they're big), but almost none in the actual text. While the capitals are clearly 'flex-style', the text itself looks as if written with a standard EF nib.

That's exactly what I'm experiencing. I can't for the life of me use the flex feature when writing small.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Vlad Soare

[Vlad Soare]

Actually, looking a bit closer, I can see some line variation here and there. It's just that it's more subtle than I had expected, that's why I hadn't observed it initially.

Maybe that's the key? Using less pressure and aiming for something more subtle? I'll have to try that.

[arcfide]

Actually, looking a bit closer, I can see some line variation here and there. It's just that it's more subtle than I had expected, that's why I hadn't observed it initially.

Maybe that's the key? Using less pressure and aiming for something more subtle? I'll have to try that.

 

It does get wet when flexed, and that does mean that the line doesn't "dry out" as quickly after release. If you want to write very small Copperplate/Roundhand style, then it is possible, but you need to be very meticulous with your pressure points. Spencerian is easier to do with this nib, IMO.

 

For me, the trick is to anticipate this "overflow" of the nib and therefore release the pressure and unflex the pen earlier than you really think you should. This stops up the flow but leaves some on the nib to continue the rest of the shaded line. If you do it right, then the shade line remains, but cuts out at the right spot to go back to the thins.

 

I do this for Spencerian. As an example, on the shaded lowercase "d" or "t", I'll press down at the top to get the flow started, and then quickly release before I'm halfway down the stroke, allowing the pooled ink to fill out the rest of the line.

 

If you want to do roundhand, you might have to go very carefully with plenty of pen lifts if you want to maximize your effect.

[fpupulin]

[peroride]

For folks with this pen, what inks pair well?

 

I would think that the characteristics of the nib expression would vary with the ink.

 

So far I've read Pilot Iroshizuku, Pelikan Smoky Quartz, MB Sand of the Desert, permanent Black and a few other non-perm MB.

 

Any others favorable?

[txomsy]

OTOH, if you want to do really tiny writing with line variation... may I suggest that there may be better options?

 

First, let me be clear, I do not own an MB with Calligraphy nib, wish I could, but can't. Anyway, I cannot say how easy (or not) it is to have a finer control on tiny writing with it (I suspect it must be simply a matter of improve fine control of your hand or maybe finger-controlled writing). But, what I can say is that there are plenty of modern or near-modern nibs that will give you line variation with tiny writing. At least in my experience, but it might just be that I am a ham-fisted writer. The problem, as with vintage pens is that there is no easy rule to know which will work and you must find by trial and error.

 

As a semi-vintage example, I have a french, 18K nib, Waterman Oryx Satiné with an EF that gives nice line variation on tiny writing. As a modern example, the EF nib of the Delike Alpha also does. But be warned, that's for tiny writing, on good paper (if it's too absorbent, any thin line of any nib will spread and lose most of the effect anyways), and you have to look at it closely to realize that the effect is there. But that's the point of tiny writing, isn't it? Note that there are many (and I mean many) other nibs that are hard nails as well. Trial and error.

[max dog]

By the looks of many of the reviews on this thread, I question whether the recent flexible nib line of Montblancs is worth it. Looks like a lot of buyer's remorse or disappointment. Hopefully Montblanc can put more resources into continuing to improve on the reliability of their writing instruments for all different types of users.

Good grief. Your from the couch assessment would have an ounce of credibility if you had any physical experience with the pen.

[Solitaire146]

Good grief. Your from the couch assessment would have an ounce of credibility if you had any physical experience with the pen.

Fair enough. Perhaps I will try one out and that way have a better idea.

[etzbseder]

I have the 146 with the calligraphy nib and am using the Blue Hour blue ink. My handwriting is atrocious but it works well for the pen.

[dribs]

Just got the 149 calligraphy nib today.

 

I'm finding some issues? Not sure if they are but:

 

- occasional hard starts, usually vertical strokes

- railroading, complete starvation of ink flow when flexing at close to full. Though when this happens, I'm not actually writing words just downstroke lines.

 

I'm having thoughts of taking it back to thr boutique for an exchange, or should I just accept this is how the nib is?

[arcfide]

Just got the 149 calligraphy nib today.

 

I'm finding some issues? Not sure if they are but:

 

- occasional hard starts, usually vertical strokes

- railroading, complete starvation of ink flow when flexing at close to full. Though when this happens, I'm not actually writing words just downstroke lines.

 

I'm having thoughts of taking it back to thr boutique for an exchange, or should I just accept this is how the nib is?

 

Can you take some videos demonstrating what you're seeing and let us know what ink you're using? I assume that you've also washed the pen out at least once as a debugging step?

[Vlad Soare]

The first issue is probably a bit of baby's bottom. Many new Montblanc nibs seem to suffer from it. Mine was no exception. Fortunately it's very easy to fix, do a search on YouTube, there are several videos that show you how to do it.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Vlad Soare

[Vlad Soare]

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Vlad Soare

[dribs]

The first issue is probably a bit of baby's bottom. Many new Montblanc nibs seem to suffer from it. Mine was no exception. Fortunately it's very easy to fix, do a search on YouTube, there are several videos that show you how to do it.

 

I think the more I read, the more I think you might be right. Could be the baby's bottom problem. I will take a photo and post it a bit later, out right now.

 

The ink starvation I found was it was running out of ink and I was flexing to close to its max. That issue is now gone.

 

The problem like you Vlad had, is having the occasional hard start. Sometimes even writing a paragraph will render the occasional hard start.

 

I haven't done micromeshing before, so I'm a bit apprehensive doing it for the first time on a...montblanc. I can get the micromesh and a loupe without too much difficulty however.

 

How many figure 8's did you do on the micromesh e.t.c.?

 

I'm debating internally whether to return to the MB boutique and ask for an exchange. I did ask if it were "faulty" whether they can perform an exchange, they said yes.

 

But anyway, thoughts?