Mb 149 Expression Nib - Calligraphy?

[Tom Kellie]

I think the main expression nib and the gold leaf model are in the $1000 - $2000 range in some places.

 

~ arcfide:

 

Thank you for that information, which I assume refers to U.S. Dollars as opposed to the Hong Kong Dollars in my area.

When I wrote to aimi, I failed to be sufficiently clear.

I was primarily referring to current Montblanc Bespoke Nib pricing, as that would facilitate specialized flex nibs on other fountain pen models.

I apologize for my lack of clarity.

Tom K.

[arcfide]

 

~ arcfide:

 

Thank you for that information, which I assume refers to U.S. Dollars as opposed to the Hong Kong Dollars in my area.

When I wrote to aimi, I failed to be sufficiently clear.

I was primarily referring to current Montblanc Bespoke Nib pricing, as that would facilitate specialized flex nibs on other fountain pen models.

I apologize for my lack of clarity.

Tom K.

 

I think you were adequately clear. I was simply pointing out that the sales lady in question might have been thinking that the non-149 pen that could be "fitted" was the "pre-fitted" 146 Solitaire, and quoted the price for that pen instead of the 149. Obviously the bespoke pricing could also be another explanation, but the lady might have simply been referring to the Gold Leaf 146.

[Tom Kellie]

I think you were adequately clear. I was simply pointing out that the sales lady in question might have been thinking that the non-149 pen that could be "fitted" was the "pre-fitted" 146 Solitaire, and quoted the price for that pen instead of the 149. Obviously the bespoke pricing could also be another explanation, but the lady might have simply been referring to the Gold Leaf 146.

 

~ arcfide:

 

You surely know more than me.

Thank you for the clarification.

I hope that it might help aimi.

Tom K.

[max dog]

My 149 Expression flex pen is really working out well for me. After two weeks of daily use, the ink flow for no pressure writing has improved putting down a nice reliable extra fine line, and it's also gotten smoother too, maybe because of the improved ink flow. It's my daily workhorse now for all my writing duties, and it always flexed great from the start. It's my modern vintage flex pen with the best of both worlds, practicality of a modern pen and great reliable line variation reminiscent of the vintage flex pens.

 

Great Job Montblanc!!!

(p.s.: make more soon! )

Edited March 1, 2020 by max dog

[arcfide]

My 149 Expression flex pen is really working out well for me. After two weeks of daily use, the ink flow for no pressure writing has improved putting down a nice reliable extra fine line, and it's also gotten smoother too, maybe because of the improved ink flow. It's my daily workhorse now for all my writing duties, and it always flexed great from the start. It's my modern vintage flex pen with the best of both worlds, practicality of a modern pen and great reliable line variation reminiscent of the vintage flex pens.

 

Great Job Montblanc!!!

(p.s.: make more soon! )

 

This is my experience as well. I was a little afraid that my nib would break in to something that was too broad, but I'm finding that the nib has smoothed into a decent extra fine that writes well at speed and gives me the practicality of a daily writer with the flex freedom that I want. I've been testing it with both Palmer and Spencerian cursive and it has handled each of these as a "business hand" quite well.

[max dog]

I thought I would post an update on my experiences. I've been using my 149 Expression with MB Permanent Black as a more or less daily writer for this whole time since my earlier posts, and I've found it holding up well. It continues to perform excellently.

 

I generally favor using it on Rhodia standard weight paper pads, which I find provide a very nice, clean writing surface that glides well with the pen while still providing some feedback for control.

 

I find that I need to release my down pressure strokes a little faster than I would with a dip pen in order to achieve the same effect due to the differences in springback. However, the same effect is more or less possible, though the Expression Nib will be less precise than, say, a Zebra G point.

 

I love the combination of the Permanent Black with this nib.

 

Cleaning and maintenance has been a breeze. I generally flush at each fill, which is usually once every day to a week.

 

The nib is holding up well to constant Spencerian use.

I will have to try some Permanent Black ink for my 149 Expression. I'm a big fan of the Permanent Blue and have been using it for years, but have not tried the Permanent Black yet, and this pen and your great experience with this ink and pen combo gives me an excuse to go get some!

[arcfide]

There's only one thing that worries me now that I've spent a lot of time with this nib. I like it too much. I use it for basically everything. I've actually worn down a previous MB 146 I had for years because I used it soo much (the whole reason I was in the store and found the Flex nib). If this special edition is such that they are highly limited over time, what happens in 10 years or so when I need to replace the nib!?

[fpupulin]

We are authorized in trusting that, when a company like Montblanc launches a pen worthy 900 Euros, they made some provisions for taking care in the future of their loyal clients. I quite trust Montblanc on this respect. As they produce all the pen in home, including the nib, they will be able to assist our pens for long time, and this is one of the reasons that pushed me to buy a contemporary pen with a flex nib!

[max dog]

I came across this impressive video on youtube of someone doing their calligraphy magic with this pen.

It's an incredible artists tool.

Edited April 22, 2020 by max dog

[arcfide]

I came across this impressive video on youtube of someone doing their calligraphy magic with this pen.

It's an incredible artists tool.

 

Very nice! I do believe that my experiences with the nib continue to recommend it as one of the most well done flex nibs to date as a modern production version. Montblanc may get a bad rap sometimes as a "fashion brand", but at least with this pen, IMO, they have shown that they still know a thing or two about making a good pen for the writer and penman, not just the executive (even if it is priced at super-executive levels).

[arcfide]

I have also noted something that I speculate about regarding some people feeling like it's too "dry" without flexing the nib. Other nibs in the past released by other companies have found themselves the targets of criticism around not flowing with enough generosity on the fully flexed strokes, leading to rail-roading or the like. This is something I don't regularly experience even at rapid speeds with the MB flex, except as the ink level gets very low. But the danger of so much flow is that the nib will not be able to keep a proper line when not flexed, or will be required to be too fine and sensitive to maintain a smoother feel when not flexed.

 

I think MB made a conscious decision to tighten up the tines when the pen is unflexed and give the nib a bit smoother grind than a traditional Spencerian Grind. The result is that the nib has a bit more sweet spot when unflexed, but in exchange, you get more smoothness, while still maintaining a very fine line. It will be a little drier when unflexed, but this means you can have that higher flow when flexed and still get the smoothness without losing line width. That's my theory anyways. The nib grinders here can indicate whether this might actually work in practice.

 

If I compare it to my Falcon Spencerian grind, the nib on the MB is more generous with its flow, and also more forgiving in the unflexed state, while still maintaining a very fine line. The good flow and behavior of my Falcon runs on a knife edge, and while the line is very nice when unflexed, the nib is much less forgiving, and it can get too much flow going and "burp" for lack of a better term with the wrong ink, flex, or other combinations.

 

It goes to show that nothing is free, and there are design trade-offs in everything.

[luckduck369]

@arcfide, I share the sentiment. I have the gold leaf. For now, it's impossible to be a daily writer. Very dry when not flexed. I hope this will improve after "break in" as some people have suggested .

[arcfide]

@arcfide, I share the sentiment. I have the gold leaf. For now, it's impossible to be a daily writer. Very dry when not flexed. I hope this will improve after "break in" as some people have suggested .

 

FWIW, I did have mine break in well. However, I suspect that many people would not find this "daily writer" material regardless. I have spent years working on maintaining a proper pen angle for Spencerian writing and also doing Palmer penmanship with an emphasis on the traditional forms of exercise, also designed to help maintain the proper angle. As the pen breaks in, the issue becomes one of tine alignment.

 

I suspect that many people will bring the tines slightly out of alignment when doing rapid writing that will negatively affect their writing experience. This is easily fixed by simply flexing the pen a bit and letting the tines "recenter" themselves. I doubt that this is something most people will want to do. If you use Spencerian as a daily hand, then you won't have any issues, because the occasional flex will take care of that for you.

 

If I recall, the Gold Leaf was a little stiffer with a smaller nib, which might be in your favor as a daily writer, since you could probably find an ideal "gentle" pressure that gives you just the right amount of flow for a very clean line without the dryness, without too much risk of messing with the alignment in the course of your writing.

[fpupulin]

I heartily agree with any single word of arcfide’s analysis of the Calligraphy nib behavior.

 

As I wrote in another post, the flexible nib of the Calligraphy is designed so that the tines, at rest, are pushed very close to each other. This reduces the ink flow on the tip and allows to obtain the thin line that this nib is capable of when writing with a light hand, at the marginal price of a relatively "dry" flow. As the pressure increases, and thanks to the geometry of the nib and the flexibility of the material, the tines separate and, in addition to producing a line of greater thickness, they allow more ink to flow out.

 

After several weeks of use, I am now convinced that the reason why with the Calligraphy nib the line continues to be broad in the trait that follows pressure does not depend on a certain slowness of the tines to return to the resting position, but on the amount of ink released during flexing due to the abundant flow, that must be somehow "disposed of" on the paper.

 

It is due to this construction with the tips of the tines very close that the Calligraphy nib sometimes produces a tic sound that has also been noticed by other members of the forum. In the specific case of the my nib, this tic is only audible when I change the lateral inclination of the tip, making a slight "twist" of the tines, so to speak.

 

As to the video re-posted by max dog, the penmanship shown by that lady is simply extraordinary. I have watched it maybe thirty times already... I am light years far from that level, and I sincerely had not suspected that the Calligraphy nib was capable of such a perfection, but in that perfectly trained hand it shows with strong evidence that Montblanc made it right, very, very right.

[luckduck369]

As to the video re-posted by max dog, the penmanship shown by that lady is simply extraordinary. I have watched it maybe thirty times already... I am light years far from that level, and I sincerely had not suspected that the Calligraphy nib was capable of such a perfection, but in that perfectly trained hand it shows with strong evidence that Montblanc made it right, very, very right.

 

Just watched the video for the first time, there's a hard start on the upstroke at 0:55, then another one shortly afterwards. Is this normal? I know nothing about calligraphy, just want to make sure I am looking for the right thing.

[arcfide]

 

Just watched the video for the first time, there's a hard start on the upstroke at 0:55, then another one shortly afterwards. Is this normal? I know nothing about calligraphy, just want to make sure I am looking for the right thing.

 

In my estimation, yes, that it typical of this nib. Especially when trying to get the finest line, there is a sweet spot on the nib that you'll need to hit right, or you won't write. That's the trade-off for the smoothness of the nib when unflexed compared to some other nibs that have more needlepoints on them.

 

I'm not sure if you are complaining about this or not?

[luckduck369]

 

In my estimation, yes, that it typical of this nib. Especially when trying to get the finest line, there is a sweet spot on the nib that you'll need to hit right, or you won't write. That's the trade-off for the smoothness of the nib when unflexed compared to some other nibs that have more needlepoints on them.

 

I'm not sure if you are complaining about this or not?

No, Im not complaining. I like the smoothness. But at the same time Im puzzled about how it compares with some of my vintage Montblancs which are quite flexible. I need to ink up the vintage ones when I get a break from work to have a better assessment.

[arcfide]

I think another consideration had to have been making sure that the nib was durable enough not to spring easily and result in significant returns. I heard a discussion from Goulet about some flex nibs from Aurora I think discussion how they had to make their nibs a little less flexible and a little more robust because they were getting too much springing from typical users. I'm sure part of the consideration here in modern design is that people often write differently than they did when Palmer ruled the handwriting styles, and modern approaches to penmanship can take a toll on nibs that aren't intended to work under those conditions.

[Solitaire146]

Very informative thread, thank you

[jagwap]

Just picked up a 149 caligraphy. After paying I inked it in the shop with mystery black, and tried it out in a Rhodia notebook. All looks well, except a hard start or two, and no pressure it seems to dry out a bit. But my research on this thread tells me a week or two in the hand should sort that out. With light pressure it wtites and feels like my Sailor Gear II with EF nib, which is thinner than an EEF in Montblanc range. So definately feedback, but consistantly smooth if you stay aligned to the page.

 

It may take longer than that to learn how to get the best out of the nib though. It flexes fine, with little effort, but only when I ask it. But I have not yet the skills to control it as I would wish. However I have always wanted to master this style of writing, and only had crisp italics before.