MB Generation

[meanwhile]

WHY should manufacturing defects not take longer than two years to show up?

 

What if a defect means that a pen is so weak that it will crack when it falls only, say, a foot, and this calamity does not occur until Day 731?

 

What if a defect means that three years of regular use of the retraction mechanism will destroy a pen, as Frank Dubiel said was true of MB ballpoints, and a poster said happened to his £125 pen?

 

UK law allows a period of about 7 years for material defects, which the original retailer is reponsible for, given reasonable use of an item that is intended to last that long - which a £125 biro certainly should be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pinniro]

Hi MB firends ! I'm wondering if anyone out here has got live experience of cracks on the plastic body of the MB Generation. I got kinda turned off with MB qualities of lower end pens like generation, seeing mine cracked at the nib section joining the body, I take best care of the pens tho'. Of course, I'm quite happy with my other MB LEs and Sterling.

Let me tell you about my MB generation f/p. One day I was cleaning my closet and found this generation pen pen which I bought 5yrs ago and completely forgot about it. It was new in the box. I removed the cap and noted the crack where nib enters the section, which is the thinnest part of the section. It just cracked sitting in the box for 5 yrs. I called the MB service dept and mailed the pen back to them. They replaced the section,but not free even thogh they could see that this pen has never been inked.

Sorry my friend, I believe you will have to send this back to MB for replacement of the part for a fee. MB is not like Pelikan which is vey friendly company to work with.

[tiecoon]

Hi MB firends ! I'm wondering if anyone out here has got live experience of cracks on the plastic body of the MB Generation. I got kinda turned off with MB qualities of lower end pens like generation, seeing mine cracked at the nib section joining the body, I take best care of the pens tho'. Of course, I'm quite happy with my other MB LEs and Sterling.

Let me tell you about my MB generation f/p. One day I was cleaning my closet and found this generation pen pen which I bought 5yrs ago and completely forgot about it. It was new in the box. I removed the cap and noted the crack where nib enters the section, which is the thinnest part of the section. It just cracked sitting in the box for 5 yrs. I called the MB service dept and mailed the pen back to them. They replaced the section,but not free even thogh they could see that this pen has never been inked.

Sorry my friend, I believe you will have to send this back to MB for replacement of the part for a fee. MB is not like Pelikan which is vey friendly company to work with.

They probably charged you for buying a FP and never using it. Seriously, Resin and glass cannot crack on it's own. It needs pressure, extreme changes in temperature, or a fall(on something hard or from something hard). I'm just glad you found it and decided to use it!

[mr T.]

Seriously, Resin and glass cannot crack on it's own. It needs pressure, extreme changes in temperature, or a fall(on something hard or from something hard).

 

The material most MB pens are made of is Plexglass. No glass involved. It's been sold as 'precious resin'. In Germany they call this material 'Edelharz'. It's basically the same material that is sold by DIY stores. It's not surprising that there are quite a lot reported problems with scratched and cracked MB pens. Plexiglass is a material that is known for it's scratching and cracking and is a soft and weak material. When used transparant, it also becomes a little yellow after a while too. I really don't understand how it is possible a manufacturer like MB makes pens from this material. According to www.fountainpen.de, MB probably buys it from chemicals company Degussa (Röhm & Haas). Plexiglass is as 'precious resin' or 'Edelharz' also used on some lower end Faber Castell models (E-Motion ballpoints that sell for about € 50 a piece). It is stated here on FPN by some members that this material is derived from plants or trees. If this is true, it means that material is even weaker than the material derived from oil (and would be called 'Naturharz').

For information about 'precious resin' and the way MB uses it in their products see this and this link (both in German). It's for Faber Castell not really a problem to admit that Edelharz is 'precious resin'. See for that this link.

 

[pankaj]

And can you name a 'manufacturing defect' that takes more than 2 years to become apparrent?

 

Most defects can. In most cases these have to do with the quality of used materials (like cracking barrels, cracking feeds (on the connection point with the nib for example) problems with glues, problems with paints/coatings, discolorings, problems with the used metals in nibs etc). Had myself a problem once with a Parker that had to do with the quality of used materials (on the grip) after about four years. The problem was solved by Parker UK for free because of the lifetime guarantee (and would be free too under the new warranty conditions). If my pen was a MB, it would have cost me money. Another example is the problem the starter of this topic has of course.

 

There's a difference between a latent defects, design defects, manufacturing defects, and designed product or material lifespan. For example, anything made of rubber will deteriorate over time but that does not necessarily mean it is defective. I do not expect my car, stereo, washer, dryer, or whatever to last forever. That is simply unreasonable. Anything made from any material will deteriorate. This then, is the distinction between a manufacuring defect and deterioration or a product's natural lifespan.

 

Because we are talking about manufacturing defects in the realm of warranties and legal obligations of the companies in question under their warranties, the legal definition of a manufacturing defect here in the US is, "An imperfection in a product that departs from its intended design even though all possible care was exercised in its assembly marketing." Black's Law Dictionary 8th ed. The key language here is "that departs from its intended design." Overall product lifespan has absolutely nothing to do with intended design. Some things are designed to last longer (e.g. nuclear waste storage containers) and some are not (e.g. rubber o-rings or seals). Circuits in modern missiles have designed lifespans measured in tenths or hundreths of a second because of their purpose.

 

Therefore, when you say most defects can occur after two years, it seems as though you are referring to product and material deterioration or end of product or material lifespan rather than a manufacturing defect per se. Without knowing what the intended lifespan or design of a product is, you cannot determine whether it is, in fact, a defect or merely deterioration. This is why there are lots of products liability lawsuits that seek to discover what the intended design parameters of a product is.

 

All of this may or may not be related to a manufacturer's warranty period or scope. This is largely a business decision based on, as Ray observed, perceived marketing needs, costs to support the warranty program, anticipated failure rate (i.e. mean time between failure for a particular product or product line). Internal policy can also dictate how a company handles warranty and non-warranty claims. As I've noted before, MB has repaired or replaced items for me that were well outside the scope of their warranty or for things that were not covered under warranty, such as accidental damage in one of my cases.

 

I also agree with Ray's observation that some products have built a reputation for quality and thus, a long warranty is not needed. You bring up warranties a lot in these threads so I assume they are important to you. A warranty, however, is still only one factor that gets weighed when people purchase things. For some people it is extremely important, for others, not as much or it may even be a non-issue.

 

Now, getting back to the warranties you've cited as being "the best." It will all depend on how they choose to define the terms "mechanical defect" or "mechanical failure." The other "lifetime" warranties are qualify the warranty by stating they are limited to "manufacturing defects," "defects in materials and workmanship," etc. So again, we go back to the definition of a manfucturing defect and see that it will depend on how the company decides to define a manufacturing defect and on how it decides to honor its warranty. The mere fact that the word "lifetime" is used connotes a limitation on the warranty to manufacturing, materials, or assembly defects. This is especially true in the last three examples you gave because the use of the word "lifetime" is ambiguous and does not refer either to the lifetime of the owner or the lifetime of the product.

 

Although most consumers make the assumption that anything and everything is covered under a "lifetime" warranty for the life of the product, that simply is not the case. The manfucturer has most likely limited their liability to an indefinite period of time for the product based on their definition of the "lifetime" of the product. The only warranty that truly lasts for the lifetime of the owner that is legally enforceable in the United States is the "full lifetime warranty" that requires that exact and specific language unless they received an exemption from the FTC. The other exception, is for consumer products that cost the consumer less than $5 such as your disposable Bics and other pens.

 

While this may be an intesting intellectual exercise, the bottom line is most written warranties don't mean squat when it comes to things like pens. It all depends on how a company decides to handle its warranty claims and whether someone is willing to sue for enforcement if they don't like the result or the company's interpretation of the warranty.

 

You've had good experiences with Parker and other brands, I've had good experiences with MB. The best someone like the original poster can do if they are concerned about service and warranties is talk to the company or find out what first-hand experiences people have.

 

I'm glad to learn a lot out of the disc. Brain stroming discussions out of a crack on the body generated by MB. Ok, I have got a simple submission. I'm not into the 'warrantee issue. To be a lil introspective, MB should ensure a high level of psychological satisfaction to the consumer who is virtually the ambassodor of MB reputation and standing. A pen cracking on its own, without any abuse, certainly has a telling effect on the quality satisfaction of the user. Forget that warranty thingy..whether lawfully it covers ..whether it is mfg defect in the strict sense of the term.. just keep those things aside. I'm simply wondering to myself, why at all an MB pen give in like that. Question is not the cost ... question is not that I cant afford to get it fixed.. I'm simply anguished.. its not simply expected of an MB pen.

 

You are anguished with somone only when you love one/ it, you hve got an expectation. In rest of the cases, you hate it and tend to forget it. I think Im clear.

 

[meanwhile]

Seriously, Resin and glass cannot crack on it's own. It needs pressure, extreme changes in temperature, or a fall(on something hard or from something hard).

 

The material most MB pens are made of is Plexglass. No glass involved.

 

Also:

 

According to Frank Dubiel - the author of THE text on fountain pen construction and restoration - 10% of MBs are already minutely cracked when they leave the factory. That small cracks can widen very slowly under little or no force is known as "hysteris" cracking, and a pen that already has a small crack will break much more easily when dropped. This is, of course, a manufacturing fault.

 

See the my review of the MB 149 for a link to Dubiel's statement.