Pilot Soft Fine Medium Vs Regular Medium Gold Nib?

[Mongoosey]

  On 2/2/2019 at 2:51 AM, Honeybadgers said:

the SFM would have been better than the M. The m will absolutely be too wide for cheap paper without very dry ink.

 

I agree. I have the M on a 74 with Kiwa-Guro and it works great on cheap paper.

 

But Kiwa-Guro does have that "very dry" quality about it IMO. It tames the line width very well, even on cheap paper.

 

I agree, though: any other ink besides such a dry one would write too wide a line with the M and I would have been inclined to definitely pursue the SFM/FM and even the F/SF despite the fact that I don't usually prefer nibs that fine running me the risk of possibly having to pay more to send it to Masuyama.

 

As you can tell, Kiwa-Guro played a large role in this choice. It was the "quiet determiner/factor". After it worked well in my 74-M I stockpiled a couple more bottles as a preliminary step in acquiring the 912, which happily lead me to acquire the 91-SFM unexpectedly, which I am very much looking forward to as an EDC at least.

[Mongoosey]

  On 2/2/2019 at 3:36 AM, minddance said:

You can't really stop at one. What do they say? "collect them all".

 

lol Indeed. Practically the official FPN motto lol.

[shawnee]

  On 1/31/2019 at 3:52 AM, jekostas said:

 

The majority of muscle fatigue experienced when writing is caused by one of two things:

 

1. Gripping the pen too tight; Or

2. Pressing down too hard.

 

The solution to the first issue is a bit complicated, because a lot of factors affect how you grip your pen. Size of your hands, size of the grip, shape of the grip, weight/balance of the pen, etc. You've seemingly done your homework in terms of size and writing comfort and zeroed in on the 912 as your preferred shape/weight.

 

The solution to the second issue is seemingly simple: Write with a light hand. A properly-tuned fountain pen will write with zero pressure applied - simply touching nib to paper should give consistent and reliable ink flow. The problem here is that most people write with pressure out of habit, simply because it's useful to do so when using ballpoints or gel pens. If you want to use a fountain pen and expect to write for long periods of time, a bit of practice is called for to train yourself out of doing so. From experience, it's absolutely worthwhile: Learning to write with little or no pressure will alleviate many of the fatigue/pain issues you may experience in long writing sessions.

 

Now, for the issue at hand: Soft vs Regular nibs

 

What you have to realize is that there really isn't a huge difference between the two, especially when comparing Pilot nibs of the same size (#5 vs #5, #10 vs #10, etc). If you're writing with light or no pressure, you're not going to see much of a difference in everyday writing. What you will notice is that if you do press down on the Soft nibs from time to time, it provides some cushioning for your hand.

 

I will say outright that I prefer my Soft nibs.

 

I own a Custom 74 in Soft Medium (#5), a Custom Legance in Medium (#5), and a Custom 912 in Soft Medium (#10). I did own a Custom 742 in Medium, but I used my Custom 912 so much more than the 742 that I ended up selling the latter. Likewise, I prefer my Custom 74 to my Legance, but I'm not going to sell the Legance because I like the body material.

 

When I use my Custom 912 with the SM nib, I use it for work. I'm a financial advisor by trade (going on 12 years now) and use it for writing out my client interviews. When I pick up that pen, I'm often writing 6-8 pages worth of notes in one sitting. I've tried any number of other pens in that role, including the three Pilot listed above, a Platinum 3776 with a Soft Fine nib, my MB149, a Pelikan M600, a Parker Sonnet, and a couple of Deltas among others. At the end of the day, I always come back to my 912. It's the right shape and size, the nib is utterly reliable, it's comfortable to write with for long periods of time and at many different angles, and the give inherent in Pilot's Soft nibs helps cushion your hand and alleviate fatigue/cramping. It's that last point that leads most people to recommend the Soft nibs over the standard nibs.

 

I also had a Platinum 3776 in Fine but sold it to keep my 3776 in Soft Fine for very much the same reason. That said, I don't use my 3776 for work as it's a little bit too fine for my tastes.

 

 

TL;dr - I do a LOT of handwriting and can say from an immense amount of experience that if you do a lot of writing, the Soft nibs are the way to go for the cushioning and (for lack of a better term) "shock absorption" they provide.

 

I'm going to hijack for a minute because a) you have a similar pen selection to me and you also write a lot with your FPs. My Platinum Century 3776 with a 'm' nib is my gateway drug into Japanese pens and I'm eyeing up Pilot and Sailor as my next purchases, but I'm having a heck of a time trying to understand the different nib variations so this thread is definitely helping some. What I'm trying to figure out is if I'm used to a Western Fine and I'm writing a lot and I have small handwriting, does that translate to a soft fine? Or medium fine? Or soft fine medium? I tried to do some google searches, but didn't turn up a lot.

 

Also, sorry to hijack!

[A Smug Dill]

  On 2/6/2019 at 7:00 PM, shawnee said:

What I'm trying to figure out is if I'm used to a Western Fine and I'm writing a lot and I have small handwriting, does that translate to a soft fine? Or medium fine? Or soft fine medium?

What specifically do you mean by 'translate to'? Are you talking about the writing experience (including but not limited to smoothness, 'feedback', cushioning, etc.) or the line widths laid down on the page (including subtle or not-so-subtle line variations within a continuous stroke)?

 

The Japanese nibs that are designated as Soft whatever-width are bouncy, but then that's not an exclusive property to such nibs; the 14K gold #10 'regular' Fine nib on my Pilot Custom Kaede is also somewhat bouncy, whereas the Platinum #3776 14K gold 'regular' F nib is hard as a nail by comparison; the Sailor 1911 Large 21K gold Fine nib is in-between in that respect. The steel EF nib on my Leonardo Momento Zero is slightly bouncy, whereas the 'Fusion' steel EF nib on my Delta Seawood is rigid.

 

I don't have any European pens with Fine pens left in my fleet, having given them all away, but I remember the F nib on my Waterman Expert wrote finer than the F nibs on two Parker Sonnet Gold Cascade pens, and the F nib on the Cross Townsend was a total disaster. I can't remember what the nib on the S.T. Dupont was like.

 

I think you'd be much better off measuring the line widths on a page of writing you're happy with, and assess how much pressure you put on the pen when you write like that, then use those pieces of information as the basis of finding a Japanese pen/nib to suit.

[shawnee]

  On 2/6/2019 at 7:48 PM, A Smug Dill said:

What specifically do you mean by 'translate to'? Are you talking about the writing experience (including but not limited to smoothness, 'feedback', cushioning, etc.) or the line widths laid down on the page (including subtle or not-so-subtle line variations within a continuous stroke)?

 

The Japanese nibs that are designated as Soft whatever-width are bouncy, but then that's not an exclusive property to such nibs; the 14K gold #10 'regular' Fine nib on my Pilot Custom Kaede is also somewhat bouncy, whereas the Platinum #3776 14K gold 'regular' F nib is hard as a nail by comparison; the Sailor 1911 Large 21K gold Fine nib is in-between in that respect. The steel EF nib on my Leonardo Momento Zero is slightly bouncy, whereas the 'Fusion' steel EF nib on my Delta Seawood is rigid.

 

I don't have any European pens with Fine pens left in my fleet, having given them all away, but I remember the F nib on my Waterman Expert wrote finer than the F nibs on two Parker Sonnet Gold Cascade pens, and the F nib on the Cross Townsend was a total disaster. I can't remember what the nib on the S.T. Dupont was like.

 

I think you'd be much better off measuring the line widths on a page of writing you're happy with, and assess how much pressure you put on the pen when you write like that, then use those pieces of information as the basis of finding a Japanese pen/nib to suit.

 

All of my nibs bar my Lamy Safaris are gold nibs. I have some Platinum Plaisirs that I just got so I could test out what it's like to write with a Japanese pen with a steel nib (F and M respectively). My only other experience with steel is a Pelican P205 with a 'F' nib which I loathed because it was super scratchy. I have a Pelikan Souveran M600 with a 'M' nib and that thing is wetter than wet. I'm have to get an 'EF' to make it even usable for me. Because I'm a writer and I write every day with my pens, smoothe# and consistent for hours of writing is crucial. I really like the Platinum Century with an 'M' nib, but any thinner of a line would start to make me nervous. I was surprised by how thin a Japanese 'M' was.

 

That's the breadth of my experience right now and most of that is with Montblanc other than the one Pelikan, some cheap Lamys, and the Platinum 3776. I've ordered a Pilot Metropolitan 'M' nib as my first Pilot, but I'm super curious about the soft nibs, I can't deny. And again, sorry for hijacking. I really should start a separate thread.

[A Smug Dill]

  On 2/6/2019 at 8:51 PM, shawnee said:

And again, sorry for hijacking. I really should start a separate thread.

 

 

Just for you; my reply is here:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/343508-q-i-use-western-fine-nibs-what-is-the-japanese-equivalent/

[Mongoosey]

  On 1/31/2019 at 3:52 AM, jekostas said:

 

The majority of muscle fatigue experienced when writing is caused by one of two things:

 

1. Gripping the pen too tight; Or

2. Pressing down too hard.

 

The solution to the first issue is a bit complicated, because a lot of factors affect how you grip your pen. Size of your hands, size of the grip, shape of the grip, weight/balance of the pen, etc. You've seemingly done your homework in terms of size and writing comfort and zeroed in on the 912 as your preferred shape/weight.

 

The solution to the second issue is seemingly simple: Write with a light hand. A properly-tuned fountain pen will write with zero pressure applied - simply touching nib to paper should give consistent and reliable ink flow. The problem here is that most people write with pressure out of habit, simply because it's useful to do so when using ballpoints or gel pens. If you want to use a fountain pen and expect to write for long periods of time, a bit of practice is called for to train yourself out of doing so. From experience, it's absolutely worthwhile: Learning to write with little or no pressure will alleviate many of the fatigue/pain issues you may experience in long writing sessions.

 

Now, for the issue at hand: Soft vs Regular nibs

 

What you have to realize is that there really isn't a huge difference between the two, especially when comparing Pilot nibs of the same size (#5 vs #5, #10 vs #10, etc). If you're writing with light or no pressure, you're not going to see much of a difference in everyday writing. What you will notice is that if you do press down on the Soft nibs from time to time, it provides some cushioning for your hand.

 

I will say outright that I prefer my Soft nibs.

 

I own a Custom 74 in Soft Medium (#5), a Custom Legance in Medium (#5), and a Custom 912 in Soft Medium (#10). I did own a Custom 742 in Medium, but I used my Custom 912 so much more than the 742 that I ended up selling the latter. Likewise, I prefer my Custom 74 to my Legance, but I'm not going to sell the Legance because I like the body material.

 

******When I use my Custom 912 with the SM nib, I use it for work. I'm a financial advisor by trade (going on 12 years now) and use it for writing out my client interviews. When I pick up that pen, I'm often writing 6-8 pages worth of notes in one sitting. I've tried any number of other pens in that role, including the three Pilot listed above, a Platinum 3776 with a Soft Fine nib, my MB149, a Pelikan M600, a Parker Sonnet, and a couple of Deltas among others. At the end of the day, I always come back to my 912. It's the right shape and size, the nib is utterly reliable, it's comfortable to write with for long periods of time and at many different angles, and the give inherent in Pilot's Soft nibs helps cushion your hand and alleviate fatigue/cramping. It's that last point that leads most people to recommend the Soft nibs over the standard nibs.******

 

I also had a Platinum 3776 in Fine but sold it to keep my 3776 in Soft Fine for very much the same reason. That said, I don't use my 3776 for work as it's a little bit too fine for my tastes.

 

 

TL;dr - I do a LOT of handwriting and can say from an immense amount of experience that if you do a lot of writing, the Soft nibs are the way to go for the cushioning and (for lack of a better term) "shock absorption" they provide.

 

Alright, so...

 

I received the Pilot Custom Heritage 912 in a Regular Medium and it was great.

 

I also received the Pilot Custom Heritage 91 Soft Fine Medium, which unfortunately arrived from a highly rated Amazon Seller used, with a bunch of ink on the nib, and so I returned that, but not before I was completely impressed with its Soft nib I still tried out.

 

So after that was refunded I picked up a 91 Soft Medium and it got in today and it is fantastic!

 

Jekostas, your testimony is spot on, highly reliable, and I completely concur with your above ******praise ******. It's a Grail Workhorse Nib, and I regret not heeding the above advice and simply getting the 912-Soft Medium first. I do find it significantly better than the Regular Medium for me as well. Though I still like the regular Medium, the Soft Medium is just significantly easier to write with for me.

 

I will say though, that finding the Pilot Soft Medium nib is like finding a Grail nib. It's what I've needed, what I've looked for, and simply superb. That extra bit of softness makes a significant difference even with light pressure.

 

I purchased the 91-Soft Medium from J-Subculture at a great price, it came well packaged in a box brand new and unopened. And furthermore the pen's tines were perfectly aligned OOTB, and the nib worked superbly immediately.

[Mongoosey]

After some time has passed a kindly FPN user has brought this thread to my attention and I feel I must report back to simply say that I find I actually prefer the Hard Medium Pilot Nib.

 

I love the Soft Medium nib. It's a wonderful experience, but after some time I found the soft nib to be edgier because the tines were more sensitive to shifting if the pressure wasn't just right. This made me have to slow down my writing and be more precise as though I was using a stub or italic nib,

 

And I don't like to have to slow down my writing. I prefer the boring old Pilot Hard Medium nib, and maybe the Hard Fine Medium if I want something finer.

[awa54]

I have only one current Pilot soft, a 91 in SM. I prefer it slightly to the regular medium, but either is a nice daily writer, with the "soft" nib giving slightly more line variation with slightly less pressure. I think you'll find about the same level of sample to sample variation in Pilot medium nibs as you will between the SM and M when written with a light hand.

 

I have used my SM on crummy office paper and when it's flexed near its limit it has definitely bled or feathered (depending on which cheap paper it was) more than a regular M.

 

From my fairly wide Pilot experience, I'd say it's hard to go wrong with their current products as far as being functional daily writing tools. Enjoy!

 

 

My older Elite and E soft nibs are so varied in level of flex and spring as well as base line width that using the one designation for all is almost a joke. Don't get me wrong, they all write well and have a bit of additional flex, but I have some that are barely "soft" at all and a few that are real live semi-flex and they range from EF to almost M widths. Same with all the 1960s named nibs except for Signature and Coarse, but then I only have two of each of those... and I can't comment on Falcon or Waverly, as I don't have one of either yet.

[A Smug Dill]

Having tried the:

• Platinum #3776 14K gold Soft Fine nib (three of them, actually)
• Platinum #3776 14K gold Soft Medium nib
• Pilot 14K gold #5 SF nib
• Pilot 14K gold #5 SFM nib
• Pilot 14K gold #10 FA nib
• Pilot Namiki Falcon 14K gold SEF nib
• Pilot Namiki Falcon 14K gold SF nib

I have to say the only one I (as in personally) can whole-heartedly recommend to other fountain pen users who seek noticeable line variation in "everyday" writing applications in the Pilot Namiki Falcon (or Elabo) 14K gold SEF nib. The Pilot Namiki Falcon 14K gold SF nib is OK if one doesn't require "that much" line variation to express personality and flair in his/her handwriting, and the Platinum #3776 14K gold SF nib is OK if one favours really narrow hairlines and don't mind "dry" ink flow as much.

 

The rest can go straight to either the "sell" pile or the junk pile.

[E.H. Tersono]

  On 12/23/2019 at 1:07 AM, Mongoosey said:

After some time has passed a kindly FPN user has brought this thread to my attention and I feel I must report back to simply say that I find I actually prefer the Hard Medium Pilot Nib.

 

I love the Soft Medium nib. It's a wonderful experience, but after some time I found the soft nib to be edgier because the tines were more sensitive to shifting if the pressure wasn't just right. This made me have to slow down my writing and be more precise as though I was using a stub or italic nib,

 

And I don't like to have to slow down my writing. I prefer the boring old Pilot Hard Medium nib, and maybe the Hard Fine Medium if I want something finer.

Expand  

 

Thank you for updating this thread, I was reading it and hoping for exactly this kind of update. Facing the same challenge in deciding now, and thinking that I will go with a standard Medium first for my first slightly more expensive Pilot, then try the soft nibs later, keeping in mind Dill's advice above as well.

 

Should you have any updated feelings about the 74 & 91 Medium and Soft Medium nibs to report, I'm all ears as well.

[Mongoosey]

  On 10/28/2021 at 12:53 AM, E.H. Tersono said:

 

Thank you for updating this thread, I was reading it and hoping for exactly this kind of update. Facing the same challenge in deciding now, and thinking that I will go with a standard Medium first for my first slightly more expensive Pilot, then try the soft nibs later, keeping in mind Dill's advice above as well.

 

Should you have any updated feelings about the 74 & 91 Medium and Soft Medium nibs to report, I'm all ears as well.

Expand  

Yah, I'll never use a Pilot Soft nib again.  I simply love their Regular Gold Nibs.

Right now I'm using an all matte black Pilot Vanishing Point with a Fine Gold nib and it is heaven.  I've tried VP's and Decimo's before, but the all matte version gives you so much more grip and it's much more enjoyable to use than versions that aren't all matte.  And the Fine nib offers a beautiful mix of smoothness and feedback.

In other words, I still love Pilot's Regular Gold nibs!

[A Smug Dill]

  On 3/4/2019 at 10:29 PM, Mongoosey said:

I will say though, that finding the Pilot Soft Medium nib is like finding a Grail nib. It's what I've needed, what I've looked for, and simply superb.

Expand  

 

  On 12/23/2019 at 1:07 AM, Mongoosey said:

I feel I must report back to simply say that I find I actually prefer the Hard Medium Pilot Nib.

 

I love the Soft Medium nib. It's a wonderful experience,

Expand  

 

  On 10/28/2021 at 3:42 AM, Mongoosey said:

Yah, I'll never use a Pilot Soft nib again.

Expand  

 

Wow, that's quite a long way your preferences and feelings have shifted, even for a period of two-and-a-half years.

[Mongoosey]

Yes.  I’ve honed in on what works best for me.

 

I love regular pilot gold nibs.  I like the mediums, but I find the fines are more practical, and I’ve grown to love the feel of them.

[E.H. Tersono]

  On 10/28/2021 at 8:36 PM, Mongoosey said:

Yes.  I’ve honed in on what works best for me.

 

I love regular pilot gold nibs.  I like the mediums, but I find the fines are more practical, and I’ve grown to love the feel of them.

Expand  

 

Over the last few years I've noticed my nib size preferences move back and forth from EF to M to B to F to EF again. The cycle seems to depend on my mood, my approach to journaling and letter-writing during that period, whether I'm in a phase where I try to fit a lot of precise language into a page or whether I'm being more gestural. I don't find myself switching back and forth from one function to another, but moving over time into and out of phases of acting and being that different nibs are suited for. It has burst my dream of finding the 'one pen' that I would always prefer to write with!

[A Smug Dill]

  On 10/29/2021 at 6:32 AM, E.H. Tersono said:

It has burst my dream of finding the 'one pen' that I would always prefer to write with!

Expand  

 

You could always try a Sailor Zoom or Naginata Concord nib, if you want to be able to produce a broad range of line widths with just one pen.

[MuddyWaters]

  On 10/28/2021 at 3:42 AM, Mongoosey said:

Yah, I'll never use a Pilot Soft nib again.  I simply love their Regular Gold Nibs.

Right now I'm using an all matte black Pilot Vanishing Point with a Fine Gold nib and it is heaven.  I've tried VP's and Decimo's before, but the all matte version gives you so much more grip and it's much more enjoyable to use than versions that aren't all matte.  And the Fine nib offers a beautiful mix of smoothness and feedback.

In other words, I still love Pilot's Regular Gold nibs!

Expand  

 

Vp nibs are probably a whole different beast than the custom heritage nibs on the 74, 912 and 823 for example. Have you found that even with the open nibs, you like the regular nibs vs the soft ones?

[Mongoosey]

  On 10/30/2021 at 11:47 AM, MuddyWaters said:

 

Vp nibs are probably a whole different beast than the custom heritage nibs on the 74, 912 and 823 for example. Have you found that even with the open nibs, you like the regular nibs vs the soft ones?

Expand  

I think the nibs on the VP may be a little different from the regular gold nibs on say the 74, 912, and 823.  That's come mind when I've written with the VP.  The VP has an 18kt gold nib while the 74, 912, and 823 have the 14kt gold nib, but in feel they're not all that different.  They're still that Pilot Regular Gold nib if you know what I mean.

But yes, even with the open nibs I much prefer the regular gold nibs, and I think they would not only be some of the best nibs for personal writing, but also at the workplace.  

[CoolBreeze]

  On 10/31/2021 at 3:02 AM, Mongoosey said:

I think the nibs on the VP may be a little different from the regular gold nibs on say the 74, 912, and 823.  That's come mind when I've written with the VP.  The VP has an 18kt gold nib while the 74, 912, and 823 have the 14kt gold nib, but in feel they're not all that different.  They're still that Pilot Regular Gold nib if you know what I mean.

But yes, even with the open nibs I much prefer the regular gold nibs, and I think they would not only be some of the best nibs for personal writing, but also at the workplace.  

Expand  

@Mongoosey - Thank you for this thread as it seems it was close to what I was looking for as well. I'm curious if you still feel the same way about your preferences. I'm looking for something for work/everyday writing, bouncy, but not looking for tine spread, and something that is not fatiguing. I honestly want to keep a consistent line for the most part but wouldn't mind ever so slight variation at the larger ends of the pressure spectrum. 

 

I've tried the flex and semi-flex nibs from FPnibs and they just spread so easily. I also tried the flex steel from Franklin Christoph which is hard as a nail. I've not tried a Jowo gold nib but my Pelikan m805 nib is hard as a rock. The closest thing I've come to in an everyday writer is the 18k Pilot VP (which I love). I just looking for that style of bounce in a "non-retractable nib" format. I was hoping the Pilot 743/823 in F (or maybe even fine/medium or medium) (Size 15) might be that answer. What do you think?

[leicagirl]

I'm joining this thread at the end, but I'll go back to read it all.  just wanted to say I use the EF steel flex nib from Franklin Christoph and like it a lot.  I think I'm more comfortable with semi-flex than a really flexible nib. That said, I don't find the FC nib to. be hard as a nail. I don't care for Pelikan gold nibs, but I love the steel nibs in the 200/205 series.  Semi-flex I suppose, but lovely. I have a couple Omas fountain pens from the 30s, and those are flexible nibs! Almost too much for me. -k