Are stub nibs practical?

[Mary P]

I write a small hand and I use a stub on a regular basis. I prefer a fine stub. When I buy a new pen with a stub nib, I send it out for narrowing. Both Richard Binder and Dennis Lively have performed that service for me. I have also had Richard transform both medium and broad round nibs into fine stubs for me.

 

I record the minutes for two groups. I always use a fine stub to take my notes. It forces me to write large enough that my notes are easy for me and for others to read.

Edited June 21, 2007 by Mary P

[Ghost Plane]

Thanks for the intel. I'm a B nib girl and I've avoided these out of fear they'd be too narrow for me.

[AndreaDuni]

yup yup and more yup

My first stub nib was my Bexley FPN LE. I bought it for collection purpose only but after I tried it, WOWWWWWW!!! There is always a cartridge or the converter ready for it in my desk. Now I'm out of home but tomorrow I will go to my sister's house to bring my new Stipula Novecento Cromo with 1.1 Stub nib, just because I love the Bexley Stub 1.3, I've order another one.

 

[JimStrutton]

  ViolinWriter said:

Obviously my doctor-type degree wasn't in the right field to understand fountain pens.

 

Any help would be appreciated. It's time to pack up those papery mache' crumbs and get some dinner.

 

Ah the perils of the over-educated and the under Sloe Ginned

 

Now Elizabeth, if I may be so bold, maybe you need to sit back and take this in it's stride. Stub nibs is wonderful, they are really just a sort of Italic, but with rounded edges so that where I live the Nurse is not bothered in case I hurt myself. So you can get normal stubs almost off the shelf, for example, if you by an Italic nib for a Parker Sonnet, then that is pretty much a Stub as it is not a razor sharp italic, being more rounded and then I round 'em off just a tad more to make it easy for the Village Idiot of Lydiard Tregoze, ie Moi, to write with the damn thing.

 

Now if you like finer nibs, then this ain't gonna be the beasty for you, as on a scale of nib widths it writes as almost a US Broad. In fact most European nibs tend to be broader than the US nib size. If you want a really fine stub, then I suggest you get a nin meister to grind one for you as you just won't find that from stock as far as I can see.

 

What I do find though is that a stub is good for writing music, or in my case editing music that has come off my Cakewalk program I often end up taking a Piano piece and mangling it for the Organ or Electronic keyboard.

 

Anyway, got to go now, there is thunder in the distance so I have to go a dress up in tails, light a few candles and fire up Ye Olde Technics E66 Organ and play, or more accurately murder Toccata Only music to accompany Thunder & Lightening IMHO

 

Best,

 

Jim

[Ghost Plane]

Yum. As a B lover, you've made my day. Both nibwise and because there's just nothing like a good murder to Bach.

[ViolinWriter]

  Ghost Plane said:

Yum. As a B lover, you've made my day. Both nibwise and because there's just nothing like a good murder to Bach.

 

I must disagree on the murder part. Unintentional Bach-icide is allowed under the criminal laws of every nation. The punishment is the same as getting a musician to Carnegie Hall.

 

Practice. Practice. Practice.

 

A murder of crows is fine.

 

Murder of those that 'need killing' is also allowed in certain very peculiarly enlightened communities, especially when the Sheriff lets loose the endorsement of, "That critter just needed killing." (Usually applied to a man, but that's not sexist. That's movies.)

 

As such communities and Sheriffs are found only in the Holly, Bolly or other such "woods", please don't try that at home unless you know of some 'closed city streets' and some 'professional drivers' to fill them.

 

Murder Bach? Never. Not intentionally, ever.

 

Err...NIEVERMORE!

 

When I have dear Edgar's raven agreeing with me, I know I'm right.

 

Now, exactly what must I do to become properly sloed?

 

I think I know what Jim might be urging me to do, and what to tell the nib grinder when I send the pen off. Now, could someone help me with my spelling? Typos? Finding the gins and sloes that go with them.

 

And, while we're on the matter of stub nibs, a final followup question.

 

I know that the line differences between the cursive italic and stub result in more line variation with the cursive italic than a stub. But, when you're using one or the other, is there a different 'feel' or 'feedback'l between the cursive italic and the stub? Does the stub or cursive italic result in more "tooth" in the nib? Does the stub glide more or less than a regular nib?

 

I'm talking the feeling in the hand. I am a violinist and have a remarkable feedback system in my hands. I can even tell when there is just the slightest bit too much powdered rosin in the bow (not visible to the naked or well clothed, eye. I know if there is a bit of "greasy kiddy finger" residue on the fingerboard when you can't tell it's there by visual inspection. I make adjustments in the "10th" (or less) of a 'silly - milli - meter' when adjusting a bow stroke or changing finger position.

 

Feedback from my hands is a major issue for me. If you can feel the difference between the nib types, what is it.

 

Or, if I shouldn't feel any difference at all, please let me know.

 

Thanks again. The assistance from all has been wonderful.

 

Oh, and would someone tell me what the sloes Mim sent over are bellering about? The noise, the noise, the maddening noise....

 

I think I'm getting a Mee-Grained head hurt. Ouch.

 

[JimStrutton]

 

  Quote

I know that the line differences between the cursive italic and stub result in more line variation with the cursive italic than a stub. But, when you're using one or the other, is there a different 'feel' or 'feedback'l between the cursive italic and the stub? Does the stub or cursive italic result in more "tooth" in the nib? Does the stub glide more or less than a regular nib?

 

The answer for me is that the Stub is easier to write with as the nib is rounder, whereas the Cursive nib will be straight cut and sharp, wonderful to use, but harder to master. Also writing notes on a music stand is just not possible with a cursive, but deal easier with a stub.

 

Jim

[Ghost Plane]

Ahhhhhh. The definitive answer!

[ViolinWriter]

  JimStrutton said:

  Quote

I know that the line differences between the cursive italic and stub result in more line variation with the cursive italic than a stub. But, when you're using one or the other, is there a different 'feel' or 'feedback'l between the cursive italic and the stub? Does the stub or cursive italic result in more "tooth" in the nib? Does the stub glide more or less than a regular nib?

 

The answer for me is that the Stub is easier to write with as the nib is rounder, whereas the Cursive nib will be straight cut and sharp, wonderful to use, but harder to master. Also writing notes on a music stand is just not possible with a cursive, but deal easier with a stub.

 

Jim

 

I can't write in ink on music no matter what*. It's a fact that the moment ink hits a page of music, the interpretive symbol, notes or writing shall be instantly wrong and must be changed. Interpretive markings instantly become clumsy. Notes written on line or space must be changed to the vicey versey. Worse still, any inked marking, except for copying the final version, will be awful, disastrous, stinking, terrible, and extremely UN-musical.

 

I attribute this to evil genies that live in ink bottles and only appear when a fountain pen is poised for action over sheet music. Either that, or it's a vast stage right conspiracy.

 

Making matters more difficult, my music stands are made for holding a ton of music. Putting a fountain pen near them invariably causes whatever is on the desk to fly off in a disorganized manner. If I were a believer in such things, I'd swear the House Elf were causing mischief. Or, I'd blame "He Who Must Not Be Named".

 

Then again, it's probably the Wet Whoevers.

 

Or Wagner.

 

 

________________________________________________________

*As with all rules, there are limited exceptions for inking the final version of a composition or for writing a nifty note to the Pulitzer Committee, should my music ever be nominated.

[Ghost Plane]

Definitely Wagner. Any man who writes music which Hanna-Barbera can later transmutate into "Kill the Wabbit" with Elmer Fudd singing HAD to be an evil genius. I'm grinning just THINKING about that cartoon. singing... "Spear and magic helmet..."

[JimStrutton]

  ViolinWriter said:

I can't write in ink on music no matter what*. It's a fact that the moment ink hits a page of music, the interpretive symbol, notes or writing shall be instantly wrong and must be changed. Interpretive markings instantly become clumsy. Notes written on line or space must be changed to the vicey versey. Worse still, any inked marking, except for copying the final version, will be awful, disastrous, stinking, terrible, and extremely UN-musical.

 

I attribute this to evil genies that live in ink bottles and only appear when a fountain pen is poised for action over sheet music. Either that, or it's a vast stage right conspiracy.

 

Making matters more difficult, my music stands are made for holding a ton of music. Putting a fountain pen near them invariably causes whatever is on the desk to fly off in a disorganized manner. If I were a believer in such things, I'd swear the House Elf were causing mischief. Or, I'd blame "He Who Must Not Be Named".

 

Then again, it's probably the Wet Whoevers.

 

Or Wagner.

 

 

________________________________________________________

*As with all rules, there are limited exceptions for inking the final version of a composition or for writing a nifty note to the Pulitzer Committee, should my music ever be nominated.

 

OK, now calm down..................... he said in the most condescending manner he could muster :blink:

 

Are you sure that is just regular ink you are using? Magic Mushrooms? :hmm1: There is the reason why I use a Music Editing program on the olde 'puter, see I can edit , write over and reprint until it sorta comes right. I use Ink Jet friendly paper so the fountain pen writes on it nice and smooth. Now I do agree that when I go to play the wonderful creation, some of them there evil genies, or whatever do move the keys about on my keyboard WHILST I am playing

 

However, it is quite acceptable to blame it all on Wagner But I do like the idea of the stage right conspiracy, but tell me, do they have a Black helicopter? Can't be a proper conspiracy until they have a Black helicopter

 

[ViolinWriter]

  JimStrutton said:

  ViolinWriter said:

I can't write in ink on music no matter what*. It's a fact that the moment ink hits a page of music, the interpretive symbol, notes or writing shall be instantly wrong and must be changed. Interpretive markings instantly become clumsy. Notes written on line or space must be changed to the vicey versey. Worse still, any inked marking, except for copying the final version, will be awful, disastrous, stinking, terrible, and extremely UN-musical.

 

I attribute this to evil genies that live in ink bottles and only appear when a fountain pen is poised for action over sheet music. Either that, or it's a vast stage right conspiracy.

 

Making matters more difficult, my music stands are made for holding a ton of music. Putting a fountain pen near them invariably causes whatever is on the desk to fly off in a disorganized manner. If I were a believer in such things, I'd swear the House Elf were causing mischief. Or, I'd blame "He Who Must Not Be Named".

 

Then again, it's probably the Wet Whoevers.

 

Or Wagner.

 

 

________________________________________________________

*As with all rules, there are limited exceptions for inking the final version of a composition or for writing a nifty note to the Pulitzer Committee, should my music ever be nominated.

 

OK, now calm down..................... he said in the most condescending manner he could muster :blink:

 

Are you sure that is just regular ink you are using? Magic Mushrooms? :hmm1: There is the reason why I use a Music Editing program on the olde 'puter, see I can edit , write over and reprint until it sorta comes right. I use Ink Jet friendly paper so the fountain pen writes on it nice and smooth. Now I do agree that when I go to play the wonderful creation, some of them there evil genies, or whatever do move the keys about on my keyboard WHILST I am playing

 

However, it is quite acceptable to blame it all on Wagner But I do like the idea of the stage right conspiracy, but tell me, do they have a Black helicopter? Can't be a proper conspiracy until they have a Black helicopter

Condescending??!!?? You gonna get all condescending on moi?!?!?

 

Petit moi???

 

Oh, of course...I get it...it's the 'puter thingy affecting your musical brain.

 

We don't use not steenking 'puters here in music writing. The cords get all tangled up inside the grand pinany. Worse still, those cables and stuff wreck the bowing adjustments required for Scottish fiddling musical fusion with good ole Mozart style notes on a page, done in a rockin' style.

 

The result is that I never trip when coaching Scottish or Irish fiddlers, even as we dance while we are playing. I also never get tangled into the gizmos when composing.

 

Or decomposing.

 

Actually I'm not really doing much decomposing in that the old ticker is keeping me at a lovely allegro tempo, right down to my tippy-toes.

 

As for the Black Helicopooters, you tell me. Perhaps that's the problem. I just leave the puter and the Black Hellishcopooters come in and the whole thing goes to Hades in a Hula Hoop, taking my life with them.

 

Or, it's Wagner.

 

Truthfully, I can't compose on a computer at all. I need to have the violin, or cello, or viola, in hand, or be sitting at the piano to write music. As much as I can hear the music and see it in my minds eye, I need an instrument (tape recorder running BTW) to work out the fine points of chord changes, runs, trills and other such flibberty-gibbits that make it to the ledger paper. I also think musically better when holding an instrument.

 

I also cannot stand the sound of what is emitted from computer speakers, musically speaking, even when using composing programs. Yeah, I know. They're not supposed to sound good, but still... There are no speakers anywhere that are as good as the real deal. So, like most musicians, I have a pretty awful stereo/CD player system, and lots of instruments littering my living space. It works well. I play more and get caught up in listening to "dreck" less.

 

It is actually dangerous (to the instruments) to have bows too close to the desk area. Wherever I sit or stand while playing, I'm either too far from the computer, or the bow is too close to a 'fracture hazard' caused by hitting something as I get musical type sounds out of those small wooden boxes with the strings on top.

 

Oh, and what brand of Magic Mushrooms were you speaking of? Can I get them at the local "Shop and Rob" food purveyors?

 

As for the "stage right conspiracy", I shall abstain from comment. We've just had the Supremes issue a few pronouncements from Mount Olympus (DC Branch) that limit certain speechifying rights. Until I fully understand the opinions, I don't want to get detention or suspended for the content of my comments. :hmm1:

[HDoug]

People please. Wagner's music isn't as bad as it sounds.

 

Doug

[Ghost Plane]

  HDoug said:

People please. Wagner's music isn't as bad as it sounds.

 

Doug

Had to think about that one

 

[ViolinWriter]

  HDoug said:

People please. Wagner's music isn't as bad as it sounds.

 

Doug

:roflmho: :clap1: :roflmho: :clap1: :roflmho: :clap1: :roflmho: :clap1: :roflmho: :clap1:

 

You ever had to play in the orchestra pit for Wagner's operas? Over and over? For months at a stretch? With a screaming soprano going on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, about how true is their love? And I know, it's not screaming, it's opera. Except for Wagnerian sopranos. I love opera, but I swear some Isolde's I've heard are warming up for a football match at Wembly, or an outdoor concert groupie -- same location.

 

Anyway, the soprano goes on and on about "love", while the object of their affections looks like 'jail bait' in a statutory rape sort of way. You see, it's impossible to disguise the fact that the soprano in question is clearly in her 50s with a girth of similar dimension. 'Lover boy' (e.g. Tristan), on the other hand, appears quite truly in his teens, with great legs and libido enhancing leather. (Or so it was described to me when I asked about lederhosen.)

 

Then there's the music that goes with that operatic nattering on and on, which generally is far too emblematically Imperial. Or too close to a Swatiska for comfort. Or too repetitive to avoid madness in the string sections.

 

There is a phrase that goes something like, "Void as against public policy". It actually applies to whether or not a work is worthy of copyight, or an idea worthy of a patent.

 

Too bad it's never been applied to Wagner. :roflmho:

 

But I could be wrong.

 

I could also be exaggerating. A wee bit.

[Ghost Plane]

I hate sopranos. Of course that could be a result of 13+ years of having them screech in my ears as they always got the best placement on the risers and the altos [me] got jammed in around them like afterthoughts. Usually next to the tenor section so those of us with low enough ranges could fill in for the tenors who didn't HAVE ranges. :blink: Why oh why do so many so called choir directors think they need 20 sopranos, but only 5 or so altos to balance them? Like I'm going to ruin my vocal chords trying to punch over those screechers?

 

Excuse me. The word "soprano" obviously brought back traumatic memories. There's a REASON I don't sing in choirs anymore I guess I just couldn't <ahem> HANDEL it any more.:blink:

[BillTheEditor]

  Ghost Plane said:

I hate sopranos. Of course that could be a result of 13+ years of having them screech in my ears as they always got the best placement on the risers and the altos [me] got jammed in around them like afterthoughts. Usually next to the tenor section so those of us with low enough ranges could fill in for the tenors who didn't HAVE ranges. :blink: Why oh why do so many so called choir directors think they need 20 sopranos, but only 5 or so altos to balance them? Like I'm going to ruin my vocal chords trying to punch over those screechers?

 

Excuse me. The word "soprano" obviously brought back traumatic memories. There's a REASON I don't sing in choirs anymore I guess I just couldn't <ahem> HANDEL it any more.:blink:

My wife is an alto. She agrees with you totally. As a baritone, I feel the same way about tenors.

[JimStrutton]

Now just hold on a cotton picking minute here

 

I think like what I am getting the Handel on this, (see I can do damn awful puns too )

 

Re this Wagner chappie, is not his music used somewhere in relation to helicopters, surfing and Napalm, came from some book, Heart of Darkness I think, damn sight better than the film IMHO. Therefore, he said, making a leap across a damn great chasm, Therefore I reiterate, there IS a conspiracy

 

Right now back to editing music with Stub nibs! You don't compose, or decompose the music on the computer any more than I compose this little work of art on the computer, I merely use the 'puter to transcribe and print geddit? Yes I can play back, to get an idea about tempo etc, but that ain't the be all and end all. You see I sort of doodle into the keyboard, the long one with white and black keys, which is linked to the 'puter by magic, and it records all my wonderful stuff, which I then edit, print out and edit some more with a pen whilst I try to play it again. This is an iterative process, that involves the use of about half a forest worth of paper, six bottles of Quink and five nib regrinds to get to a five minute overture

 

You can link a Violin into this mix, not quite sure how, but some guy what I met up Norf in a pub a couple of years back does it, might be a special violin though, if so my money would be on Yamaha. After about six pints of the lunatic soup and a damn fine curry though, the idea seemed great to me.

 

So there it be, this am the way that you dispose music, edit and correct same for public performance and I commend the idea to the house.

 

Right then now where's me Sloe Gin, I feel a composition coming on - I may be late for dinner tonight

[Phonz]

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but in my understanding a .3mm is a fine stub, a .6mm is a medium stub, a .8mm is a broad stub , and a 1.0mm is a double broad stub. Even though in my experience we don’t call stubs by letters but by numbers! So…Thanks Pitagoras! Oh by the way I love .9 stubs! 🙂

[Fo0zle]

I manage to bullet journal in my Traveler’s Company passport notebook with a 1.1 stub. 
 

At that notebook size I don’t think I’d go with a broader (is broader a word) nib than 1.1, but it’s definitely workable.

 

It’s fairly easy to adjust your line size with a stub, so they’re versatile in my opinion.

 

There is a bit of a learning curve with them (I’m still very much on that curve) so you might find that having to be so deliberate with your pen is fatiguing for longer writing sessions. I know that’s the case for me so far. Hoping that will improve over time as it becomes muscle memory.