Pilot Con-40. Why?

[prashant.tikekar]

We have eleven Pilot Capless pens here (with a twelfth on its way to me by USPS, even as I write this), and I use one as my most favoured EDC pen. I've never had an issue with the capacity of the CON-50 that was supplied with the pen when I bought it five years ago, or feel that it has let me down by running out of ink in the middle of writing something at work (or on any other important occasion), even though I only refilled it once every few weeks normally, or out-of-turn especially ahead of an important meeting or some such.

I work in different city than my home and do not have access to my ink pot for a week. And I use single pen throughout the week. I nearly consume 80 to 90 percent of the cartridge in a week. So con 50 will not work for me, at least till I am working out of the city.

[rudyhou]

i too much prefer the con-50 than the con-40. con-50 still my favourite choice of converter from all of the different types made for Pilot fps.

[essayfaire]

What are the current VPs sold with? I can't seem to get enough ink into my Capless. My issue isn't the converter capacity, but that I'm not filling it to capacity.

[Karmachanic]

What are the current VPs sold with? I can't seem to get enough ink into my Capless. My issue isn't the converter capacity, but that I'm not filling it to capacity.

These days Con-40

 

You're not filling it or it won't fill?

[A Smug Dill]

You're not filling it or it won't fill?

 

 

There you go. A CON-40 filled to capacity by sucking ink up from the bottle through the nib and feed – the conventional way.

 

[Karmachanic]

 

 

There you go. A CON-40 filled to capacity by sucking ink up from the bottle through the nib and feed – the conventional way.

Congratulations! I can't get past 50%

 

Perhaps it depends upon longitude. Or temperature and humidity. Or altitude. Whatever it is I don't have it.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Karmachanic

[essayfaire]

Congratulations! I can't get past 50%

 

Perhaps it depends upon longitude. Or temperature and humidity. Or altitude. Whatever it is I don't have it.

Same here... it won't fill even close to capacity and I even have the ink in the picture! Haven't tried it with my Capless yet though - I was using a Pilot bottle.

 

Perhaps A Smug Dill could post a video of the filling process? Maybe we're doing something wrong.

Edited December 19, 2018 by essayfaire

[A Smug Dill]

There's nothing to it. A clean (flushed, emptied and dried) feed and section is apt to have air in it. When you cap the pointy end of the feed with a converter, then draw ink up from the bottle with the collar of the section (and thus the nib, feed, breather hole, etc.) immersed, the air inside the section will be sucked into the space inside the converter first, and remain there at atmospheric pressure above the ink level, sealed in by the liquid.

That is the case whether you're using a converter with an internal piston, regardless of whether it's rotary-driven such as in the CON-40 and CON-50 or simply push-pull, or an aerometric converter such as the simple one supplied with the Pilot MR pens in the Japanese and North American markets, as well as the CON-20, that is hermetically sealed at the top. You cannot displace the air inside, above the ink level, while the nib and the (plugged) opening of the converter is pointing down, to use that space to hold more ink instead.

However, you can pull the pen out of the ink bottle, then hold it with nib pointing up, and let the ink flow down to the piston end or closed end of the converter to displace the air upwards. How readily it happens depends on the ink (for example, Sailor souboku is quite resistant to that, while Sailor Shikiori yodaki isn't), the internal diameter of the converter, and whether there is an agitator such as a ball bearing or steel spring inside; sometimes it'll take some gentle shaking to get the ink moving. Once the air gap is where the converter joins the feed, it can be (almost) completely driven out by slowly moving the piston. Then the section can be dipped inside the ink bottle again to suck up more ink into the now only 'half'-full converter using the conventional filling method.

 

You cannot completely fill a converter from empty with a single draw of the piston, or a single squeeze of the button or lever on an aerometric converter, any more than you could (not!) fill a CON-70 to capacity with a single push of the button at the top. I don't generally like piston-fill pens, but I have over twenty Wing Sung 3008 pens here so I have first-hand experience using such, and I know that equally you could not fill the pen barrel completely with a single draw of the piston, with the section submerged in the bottle of ink while the nib is pointing down.

 

I also find that (the feed and/or collector inside) the section of the Pilot MR is far more apt than the Pilot Capless nib assembly to seal the air gap in with ink, when the user is trying to drive the air out with the nib pointing up, and make the procedure prone to splatter if he/she is determined to fill the converter to capacity. To counter that, for the first draw of the piston (using either the CON-40 or CON-50) I would go halfway first – or until I can see ink inside the converter – then hold the pen with nib pointing up and draw the piston the rest of the way to suck the ink from the section/collector into the converter, then drive out the air inside, and then fill the converter to capacity with the section dipped into the ink bottle.

 

The physics and the 'shortcoming' of the mechanism are the same for the CON-40 and CON-50, as well as other Sailor, Platinum, Parker, Cross, Diplomat, Rotring, Faber-Castell, Aurora, Jinhao, Moonman and Wing Sung converters that use the same type of mechanism; I've used them all. I don't see how this is specifically a CON-40 problem, or a valid reason for all the hate directed at (the design of) the CON-40, just because 'you' no longer have the choice of buying the CON-50 or the CON-20 new (other than overpriced NOS hoarded by someone else).

 

<EDIT>

@XYZZY, thanks. I actually wrote a paragraph drawing the analogy for filling a syringe to full capacity in preparation for intravenous injection, but then cut it out because I didn't want some people to start arguing that the volume of air inside the hypodermic needle, relative to the capacity of a syringe, is negligible and thus 'they' would not 'need' to get rid of the air bubbles (and implicitly shift the goalposts by not 'requiring' something to be filled to full capacity).

Edited December 20, 2018 by A Smug Dill

[XYZZY]

Yeah that ^^^

 

People probably notice it in a CON-40 because the capacity of the converter is so small. If there is 0.2ml of air in the feed/section that gets drawn into a .4ml converter then the converter appears half empty. If that same 0.2 of air gets drawn into a larger .6ml converter then it appears 2/3 full.

 

The physics of it is unavoidable. Next time you watch a doctor or nurse fill a syringe you'll see the same thing as they draw the air from the needle into the syringe. Pay attention and you'll see them get rid of the air bubble the same way that Dill just described.

 

I snap my fingernail against the pen a few times to encourage the air bubble to rise.

Edited December 20, 2018 by XYZZY

[BaronWulfraed]

I usually pause with about one turn left on the piston, then turn the nib to the sky, and finish the last turn. This sucks the last of the ink out of the feed/collector. THEN turn the piston back in until the ink starts to bead at the base of the feed/nib, at which time it goes back into the bottle to suck up a full load of ink. And then, as most of the instruction graphics for pens show, lift out of the ink and turn down for one or two drops (meant to allow air for expansion into the feed -- if I'm going to immediately do a stack of writing, I might skip this step).

 

Same for squeeze converters (or my one lever fill -- I don't think I have fine enough control to do it with a crescent filler): invert, squeeze out air, back in ink and release.

[Mongoosey]

Yah, but that air bubble is practically unavoidable if filling through the pen,/feed/section and after that amount of trouble it's just easier to use a syringe.

 

IME, the con40 is basically a converter that requires a syringe. It does look better than a cartridge in a demonstrator, it does have agitators, but I have to syringe fill mine.

[A Smug Dill]

Yah, but that air bubble is practically unavoidable if filling through the pen,/feed/section and after that amount of trouble it's just easier to use a syringe.

It's equally as unavoidable when using a CON-50 or a CON-20.

[Mongoosey]

It's equally as unavoidable when using a CON-50 or a CON-20.

Yah, but at least with the con50 I can get a full fill with 1 or 2 extra attempts, which is just as well as any other good quality converter I have.

 

With the con20 I can't tell.

 

But with the con40, it doesn't matter how many attempts per fill I make; I can not get a full fill or something remotely close.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Mongoosey

[essayfaire]

 

However, you can pull the pen out of the ink bottle, then hold it with nib pointing up, and let the ink flow down to the piston end or closed end of the converter to displace the air upwards. How readily it happens depends on the ink (for example, Sailor souboku is quite resistant to that, while Sailor Shikiori yodaki isn't), the internal diameter of the converter, and whether there is an agitator such as a ball bearing or steel spring inside; sometimes it'll take some gentle shaking to get the ink moving. Once the air gap is where the converter joins the feed, it can be (almost) completely driven out by slowly moving the piston. Then the section can be dipped inside the ink bottle again to suck up more ink into the now only 'half'-full converter using the conventional filling method.

 

I also find that (the feed and/or collector inside) the section of the Pilot MR is far more apt than the Pilot Capless nib assembly to seal the air gap in with ink, when the user is trying to drive the air out with the nib pointing up, and make the procedure prone to splatter if he/she is determined to fill the converter to capacity. To counter that, for the first draw of the piston (using either the CON-40 or CON-50) I would go halfway first – or until I can see ink inside the converter – then hold the pen with nib pointing up and draw the piston the rest of the way to suck the ink from the section/collector into the converter, then drive out the air inside, and then fill the converter to capacity with the section dipped into the ink bottle.

 

The physics and the 'shortcoming' of the mechanism are the same for the CON-40 and CON-50, as well as other Sailor, Platinum, Parker, Cross, Diplomat, Rotring, Faber-Castell, Aurora, Jinhao, Moonman and Wing Sung converters that use the same type of mechanism; I've used them all. I don't see how this is specifically a CON-40 problem, or a valid reason for all the hate directed at (the design of) the CON-40, just because 'you' no longer have the choice of buying the CON-50 or the CON-20 new (other than overpriced NOS hoarded by someone else).

1. This all makes sense, but for some reason it seems more pronounced in the Capless than in my other pens, including my Japanese MR.

 

2. Thank you! I will employ this method for filling from now on. Physics works

[A Smug Dill]

But with the con40, it doesn't matter how many attempts per fill I make; I can not get a full fill or something remotely close.

 

 

If I can do it, so can you. Try harder. I'm not trying to patronise or condescend; the fact that I think you must be able to do it (if you tried) if I can do it, is testament that I regard you as my equal there and has the same capability when applying the same there's-nothing-to-it technique.

 

As far as the physics of it go, if the capacity of the CON-40 is at least twice of the volume of air that can be 'trapped' inside the nib/feed/section of the pen in question, then it can be done.

[Mongoosey]

 

 

If I can do it, so can you. Try harder. I'm not trying to patronise or condescend; the fact that I think you must be able to do it (if you tried) if I can do it, is testament that I regard you as my equal there and has the same capability when applying the same there's-nothing-to-it technique.

 

As far as the physics of it go, if the capacity of the CON-40 is at least twice of the volume of air that can be 'trapped' inside the nib/feed/section of the pen in question, then it can be done.

lol No worries

 

I don't need to. I have a con50 in my pen that needs it and it works great, but I'm not even using that pen.

 

I have a custom74 on the way with a con70 waiting for it.

 

The only pen I'd potentially use the con40 for would be the VP I have yet to get and I'd syringe fill a cartridge for that if I didn't choose to use my con50.

 

I never thought I'd appreciate the con50 like I do now lol.

[penzel_washinkton]

I have a custom74 on the way with a con70 waiting for it.

 

Better prepare yourself learning for cleaning it then!

[Mongoosey]

Lol

 

They are awful to clean unless you use the most well behaved inks, and even then... : (

[ink-syringe]

I don't understand why Pilot doesn't simply copy Sailor and make a converter like theirs. Basically a con-50 without the agitator. For me Sailor converters have always worked flawlessly.

 

 

 

First Sailor converter. ugh. no.

Second they did. The Pilot Con-50 originally came without the agitator. That was added later.

 

Con 20 is okay in my book. Glad to have a couple spares.

 

Con70 is great. Works. Holds a lot. Is easy to clean. (I am baffled by these claims that the con70 is hard to clean, just blast it with the blunt tip syringe a few times. Ink behind the filler? Just hold the button down and shoot a few blasts in there. I clean my Con70 in minutes. I have no idea what y'all are doing).

[Karmachanic]

 

 

First Sailor converter. ugh. no.

Second they did. The Pilot Con-50 originally came without the agitator. That was added later.

 

Con 20 is okay in my book. Glad to have a couple spares.

 

Con70 is great. Works. Holds a lot. Is easy to clean. (I am baffled by these claims that the con70 is hard to clean, just blast it with the blunt tip syringe a few times. Ink behind the filler? Just hold the button down and shoot a few blasts in there. I clean my Con70 in minutes. I have no idea what y'all are doing).

 

A] Con-50 agitator is easily and quickly removed.

 

B] Con 70 - What the man (that would be ink-syringe) said. Easy peasy.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Karmachanic