400, 400N, 400Nn - Number Of Barrel Stripes

[stoen]

Hello,

 

I couldn't find anything on this topic in these forums...

 

I'm using three different vintage Pelikan 400s (one of the "original" series and two of the 400nn series). I have noticed that the number of stripes may vary. For example, the original seires' 400 and a green striped 400nn have 24 stripes on the barrel, whereas the other 400nn (pictured left) has 30 stripes:

I know celluloid patterns are supposed to vary, yet a clear difference in engineering and design can be seen in the image.

Is there a known history of barrel design for the vintage 400 models (1951 - 1964)? I know these barrels were made from acrylic plastic on the inside and celluloid on the outside. I suspect there must be a history of design and engineering changes, which can help in dating the pens more precisely.

I've searched the web as well as printed documents within my reach, yet couldn't find anything on this topic.

 

Any information would be highly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Regards,

 

Stoen

Edited November 27, 2018 by stoen

[roguewis]

Uh oh, now I'm going to be counting stripes to see if mine differ!

[Bo Bo Olson]

'50-67???

This is the first time I've run across this question.

Not going to go overboard and count all my 400's (400 tortoise and 500 a tortoise have 23)....one 140=24, one 400=22, one 400nn =25...give or take one.

 

All the stripes are not all the same width. There are some that are narrower....or narrower at the end one is counting..................did not; am not going to look at the other end.

[Argee]

my early 400 has 21 stripes

[mana]

Counting stripes are we now, eh?

Might have to have a looksie at my 400/N/NN... so far there seems to be little rhyme or reason behind the exact number of the stripes or their width. The tortoises that I have (2x 400, 1x 400N, 1x 400NN) all seem to have a similar number of stripes but I haven't counted them though.

[stoen]

Thanks everybody for your time, good will and effort to read and reply to this post, let alone count the stripes, which I neither suggested nor implied to...

By no means did I mean to make "practical jokes" with this respected forum nor to ask plainly irrelevant questions.

I've run across perhaps 60 pens of Pelikan 400 models (excluding "light tortoise" ones, M&K 400nn and M400) in rather "trustworthy" condition, and the number of celluloid stripes were varying between 22 and 30, although I haven't counted them all or made trustworthy written records.

 

Only recently it came upon my thoughts that beyond this variation might have been a little more than mere freedom in batch production of celluloid "bindes".

 

I've seen a Pelikan paper on the production of these "striated" bindes, and it seemingly followed an industrial design and a four-step manufacturing method, unlike 100N bindes, which had more to do with "chemistry". Please pardon if I'm not preicise enough.

 

The Theodor Kovács technical drawing in US Patent D160180 of Sept. 19 1950 suggests approx. 23 stripes (+- 2, taking projection imprecisions into account) for the model 400, which may "fit the pattern", since the number of stripes in some early models seem to vary between 21 and 25.

 

Yet it seems to me that in later models (designed and manufactured after 1956) number of stripes has slightly increased. Was it at manufacturer's discretion only, or there was a perhaps design change, I'm not aware if there was one. Or perhaps various subcontractors freely supplied "own variation" of the theme, which was a patented design. Also, I do not know if there was any design change between 1964 and 1967.

 

If you have any relevant information, please feel free to post.

 

Thanks and best regards,

 

Stoen

[mana]

Cool... Is this paper on the production of the striated bindes available somewhere?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Geha uses a more wild striation on it's 760 (mine is gray)............48 1/2 + or -1 or so.

[stoen]

The document showing the composition of “Stresemann pattern”-striated bindes, and illustrating the process of “welding” translucent with iridescent celluloid (or cellulose acetate) layers, then cutting and rolling them could have been found in one of the respected web pages covering Pelikan pens - possibly taken from one of the Pelikan Schreibgeräte books ...many of the saved links from 3 years ago are now dead. I believe having it downloaded three years ago, but can’t find it in my files now - unfortunately some existential issues have forced me to put my handwriting hobby aside for a while...

I’ll let the forum know if I find it.

The fascimile of US patent can be found here:

File:Patent-US-D160180.pdf - FountainPenwww.fountainpen.it › File:Patent-US-D1...

BTW, here is a thread in another forum, on Model 400 variations, where reputed Pelikan dealer piscov suggests that narrower stripes may mean later year of production:

http://fountainpenboard.com/forum/index.php?/topic/4482-pelikan-400-variant/page-2

In this thread describing a breakup damage to the 400-binde, its laminated through structure and thickness may also be clearly observed, and (at least in concept) reverse-engineered:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/308026-pelikan-binde/

This is how helpful I can be at this moment. I know it is not much, but I'll keep posted on the results of this little research. Thanks for your participation.

Edited November 30, 2018 by stoen

[mana]

The document showing the composition of “Stresemann pattern”-striated bindes, and illustrating the process of “welding” translucent with iridescent celluloid (or cellulose acetate) layers, then cutting and rolling them could have been found in one of the respected web pages covering Pelikan pens - possibly taken from one of the Pelikan Schreibgeräte books ...

 

Thank you, this is all wonderful information! I have both editions of the Pelikan Schreibgeräte, need to scour them through.

[EdwardSouthgate]

 

 

Ya'll are crazy ! Never would it occur to me to count he stripes , I just assumed they were all different . You have way too much free time .

 

Eddie

[mitto]

+1

[sargetalon]

There are some design changes that allow you to narrow down a date range but nothing really as it relates to the barrel. I've never counted the stripes on any of mine. I've always assumed an inherent variability due to the materials used and I've always appreciated the fact that no two pens are really quite alike.