Why Is (Graf Von) Faber Castell Not More Popular In The Fp World?

[TheRealMikeDr]

Interesting. I recently purchased an Intuition Platino and it's a superb pen. The nib writes a wonderfully wet and consistent line and while I've only inked it up once so far (for a couple weeks) it never had any issues starting or writing. I find the pen a thing of beauty however I certainly realize that I'm in the minority. While shopping for it at the DC show I asked Brian Anderson if they had any and he basically said that it's sort of an odd duck that doesn't sell well so they don't carry them. Fair enough. For whatever reason the masses don't seem enamored with them - tastes are subjective and whatnot. Personally I find it to be a high quality pen and when purchased at a discount (I got mine for half the MSRP) I think it's a wonderful value.

 

Styling, marketing - those are the two main things that probably contribute to the lack of popularity.

[putteringpenman]

  On 11/24/2018 at 7:25 AM, adim said:

Hi all!

 

I want to start by saying that I've made my entrance in the 'serious' fp world thanks to this community about one year ago. Before that, I was a fp user, but not a 'serious' one, in that I wasn't reading, researching, testing and actually studying pen and ink-related stuff. So I could say I learned all I know here and I want to thank each and every one of you for that!

 

Now, to the topic of this discussion, I was wondering: given that (Gv)FC is such an old company with quite a lot of history, why is it not discussed and represented more in this community? In particular, why doesn't it have a separate section in the "Manufacturers" subforum?

 

Note that this is *not* a complaint of any sort, I'm just trying to learn more, so the possible answers I've been thinking of are:

- FC is more oriented to general stationery, drawing instruments etc. not specifically fountain pens;

- There are not so many users of (Gv)FC here, so the subforum would have been almost deserted;

 

I would love to know some general opinions about this manufacturer, since (a) I saw very good reviews even for their cheap pens (e.g. Loom, Ambition, Intuition) and ( b ) they do make luxury pens as well (PoTY series). Admittedly, it's interesting to see that they don't have a 'middle class' of pens, as the prices steeply go from $100ish to $2000ish.

 

So given this, why doesn't it get more attention here?

 

Again, not starting a rant or a love/hate discussion, I'm just trying to learn more about the brand and its reputation, since I find it interesting that Montblanc, Pelikan, Parker or others get much more attention, although (Gv)FC has a much longer history. Or did they get into fountain pens much later than the others?

 

I don't like the design of their pens so I don't look them up often. Also, I have written with a few of their pens at pen meetups and shows and think there are better pens for less money. The pens are heavy, and I prefer lighter pens.

 

As others said, there are other pens I like more.

Edited November 26, 2018 by putteringpenman

[sansenri]

  On 11/26/2018 at 12:59 AM, MuddyWaters said:

Very nice pen. I think I've developed a FC and gvfc fetish

 

How is the comfort of this pen and how is the nib? If I am not mistaken, this is their thickest bodied pen right? Which model has the bigger nib?

 

No, and thank you Jar for posting the picture, so I did not have to dig the pens out to compare them...

 

The Platinum is thicker that the Intuition. They are both very comfortable with a slight advantage to the Platinum which due to the wooden finish also feels warmer in the hand an less slippery.

My terracotta is wonderful nonetheless, even with the slightly smaller nib.

The real characteristics (regarding comfort), which some may not be interested in, but I absolutely adore, is NO THREADS!

This is one of the few pens with which nothing gets in the way of your fingers, however you hold it.

The screw out converter, which is released by turning the bottom knob (a bit like in some Dupont pens) is very clever.

Nothing to complain here, pistons are lovely, I do like my Pelikans and Omas, but cleaning a converter is admittedly easier...

The nibs are surprisingly smooth, even the steel ones (I also have an Ondoro), the larger one on the Platinum has some springiness.

 

I do think GvFC has decided to target a specific group of users (in a crowded market it's usually a sound decision), however I also think that some of their high quality and classic elegance does trickle down to their more affordable and less ornate pens.

[MuddyWaters]

  On 11/26/2018 at 7:11 PM, sansenri said:

 

No, and thank you Jar for posting the picture, so I did not have to dig the pens out to compare them...

 

The Platinum is thicker that the Intuition. They are both very comfortable with a slight advantage to the Platinum which due to the wooden finish also feels warmer in the hand an less slippery.

My terracotta is wonderful nonetheless, even with the slightly smaller nib.

The real characteristics (regarding comfort), which some may not be interested in, but I absolutely adore, is NO THREADS!

This is one of the few pens with which nothing gets in the way of your fingers, however you hold it.

The screw out converter, which is released by turning the bottom knob (a bit like in some Dupont pens) is very clever.

Nothing to complain here, pistons are lovely, I do like my Pelikans and Omas, but cleaning a converter is admittedly easier...

The nibs are surprisingly smooth, even the steel ones (I also have an Ondoro), the larger one on the Platinum has some springiness.

 

I do think GvFC has decided to target a specific group of users (in a crowded market it's usually a sound decision), however I also think that some of their high quality and classic elegance does trickle down to their more affordable and less ornate pens.

Thanks for the response my friend. What is the platinum pen you refer to? Ciao..

[Honeybadgers]

Oh I am fully aware my preferences are eclectic and weird. Doesn't mean I can't be disappointed that a massive king of pen uses a sad little converter.

[eciton]

  On 11/26/2018 at 9:19 PM, MuddyWaters said:

Thanks for the response my friend. What is the platinum pen you refer to? Ciao..

 

He means the "Platino", the larger version of the Intuition.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Cartridges have always been way too expensive....even back in the B&W TV day.....of course I went BP; with lots of luck one could get 10 refills for a 10cents ................so one could buy a big 10oz Coke or 12 Oz Pepsi for a silver dime, or a big nickle Snickers or Spidie #1.....for 15 cents.

The cost of cartridges I think almost killed of the fountain pen.

 

I started with Lever pens.....but lever became anti-school....or low status. (It didn't matter, the pen collectors collected my fountain pen....and jotter every year.....) Cheap ball points were not stolen....Skill Craft.

Then came the Bic. Hard to steal as long as you kept the cap in hand.

 

I needle fill, or use a converter....and one has to add things to a converter to prevent vapor lock.

[milkb0at]

The GvFC pens I've held all look nice to me, but for me the best things about them are the feel of the screw cap. The way they schlunk (technical term) into place at the final portion of the turn felt lovely. I've never even written with one, but if I were to get a GvFC I'd get a screw cap variant.

 

For me, the best slip caps are ST Dupont (again, a pen I've never written with but like the feel of).

[sansenri]

  On 11/26/2018 at 9:19 PM, MuddyWaters said:

Thanks for the response my friend. What is the platinum pen you refer to? Ciao..

 

yes sorry I mean the Platino (wonder why I was trying to translate an italian word...)

(see my previous post with picture in this thread)

The Platino Intuition, wood version, in ebony is my favourite. A really nice pen, not cheap unfortunately, but with lots of quality in the wonderful nib, the wooden body, the shape, the fine texture, the finish, the subtle dark colour of the wood, almost black but not completely with that typical grey shine of polished ebony.

[praxim]

  On 11/26/2018 at 11:34 AM, A Smug Dill said:

that still wouldn't necessarily mean we'd see significantly more discussion and praise for the brand on a forum such as FPN.

 

Four pages in a couple of days, with quite a few people appreciating them, is not too bad. Did I mention I happen to have mine in rotation now? I agree with sansenri's micro-review.

[sansenri]

[BaronWulfraed]

  On 11/24/2018 at 10:36 AM, minddance said:

they source their nibs from Bock, no? or JoWo?

 

faber castell - it is a pencil brand. but I very much like some of their designs.

 

Tell that to my two F-C slide rules! (sitting next to a pair of Sterling, and three or four Pickett)

[rluka]

While repeating what already mentioned by others

• Price is high compared to the competition as others had said. There are the more famous models from likes of Pelikan or the Japanese pens that can be had with same or lower price, even with 14k nib.
• The design is different, it's not the classic black cigar, and not the swirly resins.
  But in the other hand, the design is also quite sober, with mostly uniform engraving pattern across the whole body. Compared to the Lamy's iconic shapes, or the national treasure class urushi pens, or gaudy out of the world design that seems to be designers asking if they can, not if they should.
• The cartridge/converter dilemma. There's the perception that more expensive pens need fancier filling system or you'll feel crooked.
• They had those facepalm-worthy glaring issues that keep ticking you such as overly heavy cap, and the drying nib.
• They're like football team in degradation zone. Somehow got high enough to be talked along with teams in the primary league (the big brands with long history in pen making), but probably played more equally with teams in secondary league.

So often time, they felt so close, but missed the last piece to tip the scale.

 

BTW, when did they start the current Faber Castell Design line ? Such as the Loom, Ambition, Ondoro, e-motion.

Seeing in eBay, their older Osmia models are still the conservative torpedo shape.

[oregano]

  On 11/26/2018 at 5:47 AM, pajaro said:

The style is distinctive, and I have never been able to decide if I liked it enough to buy one.

 

I agree. I wonder if the Faber-Castell forum could be pinned. I sometimes look for threads on the brand and have trouble finding it in the 'other-European' brand section. I recently bought two GvFC classics after having sold one of them due to the EF nib having a lot of feedback, and I couldn't be more pleased with the 18k Fine nibs in the pens I have. I think that GvFC is making more of an effort in the past two years to compete with Pelikan and other brands by filling out their middle-tier Guilloche series and coming out with different versions seasonally. I think that's a great way to bring new people into the brand and I hope they keep coming up with other ideas.

 

The main issue I see with their pens, which I'm guessing could be a potential turn off, is that they don't offer a wide range of sizes, as Pelikan does. There is no middle of the road m600 size. It's either super thin, even at the high end, or very fat (I could never use the Intuition Platino, let alone the POTY for example). Also, the grips of two of their main high-end lines are metal, which rules out at least 35%-40% of customers if not more.

 

I am glad the GvFC do offer thin pens, which is great, in contrast to the current trend of making oversize pens for a large hand. For me GvFC as a brand stand apart from the rest in their impeccable attention to detail and the striking combination of metal and wood.

[adim]

Yes, as @praxim notes, I have to say that 4 pages of discussion is not bad at all, so they do get some attention, be it good or bad.

 

As for overly expensive c/c pens, there's another brand that does that, Montegrappa, and they also seem not popular enough, in my view. Howevere, fortunately, they've just passed through a kind of rebranding, change of philosophy and are now offering more piston fillers at decent prices.

 

I reckon their design and product line should be more divisive than GvFC's with those pens for chefs, UEFA, GoT line etc. Furthermore, I don't think they have true flagships, I would never compare a GvFC PoTY with any Montegrappa.

 

I just brought the brand into discussion since I feel many of the opinions and critiques about GvFC fit them very well too. But I'm happy for their change of approach and anxious to see what they come up with next.

[bass1193]

  On 11/27/2018 at 4:26 AM, adim said:

Yes, as @praxim notes, I have to say that 4 pages of discussion is not bad at all, so they do get some attention, be it good or bad.

 

As for overly expensive c/c pens, there's another brand that does that, Montegrappa, and they also seem not popular enough, in my view. Howevere, fortunately, they've just passed through a kind of rebranding, change of philosophy and are now offering more piston fillers at decent prices.

 

I reckon their design and product line should be more divisive than GvFC's with those pens for chefs, UEFA, GoT line etc. Furthermore, I don't think they have true flagships, I would never compare a GvFC PoTY with any Montegrappa.

 

I just brought the brand into discussion since I feel many of the opinions and critiques about GvFC fit them very well too. But I'm happy for their change of approach and anxious to see what they come up with next.

I strongly agree with everything you've said here.

 

Though, aesthetically, the Faber Castell pens have provoked a reaction in me to buy them, GvFC have not. Especially for the price all the handwork entails. And this is all just from heresay, not marketing on the part of the company. They seem to rely on word-of-mouth, which is a tricky proposition when dealing with expensive products.

 

This works for Faber Castell, because everyone praises their products. But because of the high prices of the GvFC offerings, the word-of-mouth is limited, just like the product itself.

[MuddyWaters]

Yes, though the nibs seem nice on the gvfc, I wonder how they compare to pens by pelican and pilot in their respective upper range. For example with pilot, you can get a soft gold nib at less than half the price basically. Any thoughts on if the nibs are worth the money?

[gistar]

I only own three of the GvFC pens but I find that they extrude quality and style. Much more than any comparable pen. Yes, they are different and stand out. The orange Intuition I find to be much more compelling that a mid-level Japanese pen and the nib is excellent. The attention to detail is extraordinary in all of my pens, and I will be hard pressed to point to an equal quality pen to the Platino in my collection, including my Pilot Yukari Royale. And I find compelling their oblique nibs. I will probably at some time manage to snag one of their POTYs but even without it I consider what I have as extraordinary good pens from a top level manufacturer. YMMV of course.

[sansenri]

and they do add a very nice, and at last usable, box!

 

[keybers]

Seen two GvFC's in the flesh. One was produced from his briefcase by a UK-based lawyer who is so old-fashioned and conservative that he still insists on writing "per cent." with a full stop. After I noticed his pen and correctly identified it and we discussed pens for 3 minutes, the purpose of the pen was apparently fulfilled (it has been noticed), so he proceeded to put the pen back into his briefcase, grabbed a disposable ballpoint from the pen cups in the middle of the conference table and used that ballpoint for the rest of the meeting (and took the ballpoint with him when the meeting was over).

 

The second GvFC, I've seen in the Royal Palace of Madrid, in the room with the displays that show the abdication act signed by Juan Carlos I and the speech of his son Felipe (current king Felipe VI) upon ascension to the throne. Both papers are displayed with respective pens (I don't think they were FPs, most probably rollerballs... but they were capped, so I can't tell for sure). The abdication was signed with a skeletonized Montblanc, the ascension speech—by a GvFC. The Montblanc was truly a work of art; not crossing the line from gorgeous to gaudy.

 

The GvFC in both cases looked decidedly staid. Apologies to all those who find them attractive.

 

I've bought loads of F-C pencils, a couple of mechanical pencils, two e-motion ballpoints as gifts to others (those, I could see using myself, but I stuck with other pens for the more expensive writing gear and do enjoy a cheap F-C ballpoint that is similar in its form factor to the e-motion, being thick at the top and tapering down to the writing point). I swear by F-C's ballpoint refills (the Parker-G2 type).

 

Which means I've done a lot of browsing through the F-C product line on stationery websites... and yet, although I very often fall prey to seeing something and going "ooh, new and shiny, I want that!!", I've never once had a hint of a desire to buy a F-C fountain pen, and GvFC doesn't look all that more attractive to me, plus at this price range I would rather be looking at custom pens or a Montegrappa, Aurora, S. T. Dupont, etc. etc. (don't have money for all of that so I'm planning to stop at a custom pen and a custom Montegrappa in the future).

 

I suppose that my experience is representative of what then manifests in exchanges like this:

 

  On 11/26/2018 at 1:00 PM, TheRealMikeDr said:

While shopping for it at the DC show I asked Brian Anderson if they had any and he basically said that it's sort of an odd duck that doesn't sell well so they don't carry them. Fair enough. For whatever reason the masses don't seem enamored with them - tastes are subjective and whatnot.

 

Kudos to F-C for trying to come up with designs that are not derivative, but they are mostly long cylinders that sometimes flare out in strange places, and I don't find them attractive. Apparently, most people don't either, so that is why there is no GvFC forum. Plus I remember reading a thread where a forum member asked how the forum administrators decided what brands merited their own sub-forums, and basically it boiled down to saying that the sub-forums were decided upon at the beginning of the forum's existence; creating new sub-forums entailed a lot of effort in scouring the forum for posts about that brand and putting them in the new subforum; this is such a pesky task that it was last performed long ago and the administrators are not keen on repeating that experience; and any subforum needs to have a moderator.

 

The above doesn't bode well for the prospects of having an F-C/GvFC forum.

Edited November 28, 2018 by keybers