Why Is (Graf Von) Faber Castell Not More Popular In The Fp World?

[ParkerDuofold]

  On 11/25/2018 at 4:54 AM, Mulrich said:

I have an intuition and its not a bad pen but it doesnt make the rotation often. I think it had problems drying out so I may try plugging the hole mentioned above.

 

Im one of the few people who much prefer a c/c filler, even on higher end pens. Pistons and other built in mechanisms arent as easy to clean as a converter.

Hi Mulrich,

 

You're not so alone.

 

For me, it depends on the brand... e.g., if I'm buying an upper echelon Lamy or Pelikan, I prefer a piston filler... because they design them to be easy to clean.

 

However, when I got my MB, I opted for the 145 Classique, instead of the very tempting 146 LeGrand, because MB piston fillers are hermetically sealed pens... and I don't want to have to turn a piston knob back and forth 20/30x to clean my pen out.

 

So, it all depends. Be well.

 

 

- Anthony

[Jerome Tarshis]

  On 11/24/2018 at 7:25 AM, adim said:

Now, to the topic of this discussion, I was wondering: given that (Gv)FC is such an old company with quite a lot of history, why is it not discussed and represented more in this community? In particular, why doesn't it have a separate section in the "Manufacturers" subforum?

 

 

 

The second question has an easy answer. All of the companies that have sections in the manufacturers' subforum, except TWSBI, are companies that have sold large numbers of units. Much larger numbers than Faber Castell fountain pens. Although Cross was not a major manufacturer of fountain pens until the 1980s, it got off to a splendid start and is represented in all kinds of stationery stores, to the extent that they still exist. Esterbrook and Parker and Waterman and Sheaffer and Lamy have been mass manufacturers in a way Faber Castell can't touch. In wood-cased pencils, yes. In fountain pens they came too late to the table.

 

TWSBI is the exception, because it, unlike the major manufacturers, reached out to FPN and involved people like us in the development of its products.

 

Fabar Castell is far from alone in being a niche manufacturer by comparison with a company like Lamy, whose fountain pens are very widely used in Europe. This isn't a problem that arises because most FPN members are Americans. We are not hearing from Europeans who remember using a Faber Castell or GvFC pen when they were in school or at university. Pelikan, yes; Lamy, yes; Waterman, yes; in the United States, Esterbrook, very much yes; Montblanc made widely-sold pens at relatively modest prices before the great FP disaster and the acquisition by Dunhill. Parker pens were all over the place, nolt sold only in the USA. I believe the 75 sold better in foreign countries than in America.

 

It is not really possible for a new entrant to become a major FP manufacturer in the way that Parker and Pelikan and Waterman and Sheaffer were in the past. (And such great casualties as Osmia and Soennecken.) The fountain-pen market isn't what it used to be. There are quite good pens now manufactured that can't be very major. S. T. Dupont comes to mind. Yard-o-Led. Diplomat, at a lower price level. Cleo Skribent, a strange survivor of the German Democratic Republic. Waldmann. The list goes on, even ignoring boutique brands like Edison and Karas Kustoms. This isn't the same world that gave us Conway Stewart, whose history is chronicled in a book titled Pens for the Millions..

[sciumbasci]

Osmia has been bought by Faber-Castell, and they subsequently killed off the brand.

[ParkerDuofold]

  On 11/25/2018 at 6:52 AM, Jerome Tarshis said:

The second question has an easy answer. All of the companies that have sections in the manufacturers' subforum, except TWSBI, are companies that have sold large numbers of units. Much larger numbers than Faber Castell fountain pens. Although Cross was not a major manufacturer of fountain pens until the 1980s, it got off to a splendid start and is represented in all kinds of stationery stores, to the extent that they still exist. Esterbrook and Parker and Waterman and Sheaffer and Lamy have been mass manufacturers in a way Faber Castell can't touch. In wood-cased pencils, yes. In fountain pens they came too late to the table.

 

TWSBI is the exception, because it, unlike the major manufacturers, reached out to FPN and involved people like us in the development of its products.

 

Fabar Castell is far from alone in being a niche manufacturer by comparison with a company like Lamy, whose fountain pens are very widely used in Europe. This isn't a problem that arises because most FPN members are Americans. We are not hearing from Europeans who remember using a Faber Castell or GvFC pen when they were in school or at university. Pelikan, yes; Lamy, yes; Waterman, yes; in the United States, Esterbrook, very much yes; Montblanc made widely-sold pens at relatively modest prices before the great FP disaster and the acquisition by Dunhill. Parker pens were all over the place, nolt sold only in the USA. I believe the 75 sold better in foreign countries than in America.

 

It is not really possible for a new entrant to become a major FP manufacturer in the way that Parker and Pelikan and Waterman and Sheaffer were in the past. (And such great casualties as Osmia and Soennecken.) The fountain-pen market isn't what it used to be. There are quite good pens now manufactured that can't be very major. S. T. Dupont comes to mind. Yard-o-Led. Diplomat, at a lower price level. Cleo Skribent, a strange survivor of the German Democratic Republic. Waldmann. The list goes on, even ignoring boutique brands like Edison and Karas Kustoms. This isn't the same world that gave us Conway Stewart, whose history is chronicled in a book titled Pens for the Millions..

Very well said, Jerome. Be well.

 

 

- Anthony

[ParkerDuofold]

  On 11/25/2018 at 8:48 AM, sciumbasci said:

Osmia has been bought by Faber-Castell, and they subsequently killed off the brand.

Thanks for the info... I didn't know this... for it was Osmia who made my namesake for the European market on Parker's behalf for a brief time in the late '20s/early '30s.

 

 

- Anthony

[Bo Bo Olson]

  On 11/25/2018 at 8:48 AM, sciumbasci said:

Osmia has been bought by Faber-Castell, and they subsequently killed off the brand.

Bought it fully in 1951, because they needed a known first class pen, in F-C made only second tier pens.........then the fools erased Osmia from their first class pens, a little bit at a time.

 

Osmia-Parker Duofold, I've seen beautiful blue ones going for E1,000+. 1 1/2 year or less. '28/29 Parker bought up Osmia, Lamy the director. Late '29, Lamy leaves to start his own brand. Shortly afterwards the market Crash. and Parker sells back to Osmia.

Osmia gets a free technology transfers.

They had been making Safety Pens from my reading.

 

Parker-Osmia Duofold was way too expensive for the German Market lead then by Kaweco, which had the best nib in the world.......having bought up machines from US Morton in 1914.........had used Morton nibs since 1900.

MB, Soennecken were making sac pens, that held more ink than the Duofold.

There were already many Parker Duofold clones made in Germany, sold for lots less.

1930 Kaweco goes bankrupt, due to the owners stock market losses. New owner gets rid of the worlds best fountain pen nib.....(the tipping of the Osmia may have been better but the nib making was best by Kaweco.)

So Kaweco nibs fall to middle of the pack, Soennecken, MB and Osmia level.

1930 Pelikan drags Soennecken and MB sac pens, screaming and kicking into the modern age.

Osmia tries to keep up with button fillers before buying into the piston era.

 

Osmia didn't have an office supply company to keep it afloat like Soennecken, MB and Pelikan.

1932, Osmia again broke sold, because of debt to the silver and gold making Degussa, their nib factory to Degussa............ The workers refused to move to a foreign land some 50 miles/70 km, away at Pfortzheim. No family to support each other, a land of strangers, and lousy beer....it wasn't Heidelberg beer so was lousy. A new stamtisch......stupid football teams.....not even any Rugby.

So the nib Factory stayed in the Osmia factory. Degussa nibs are great, they also made nibs for Geha and for Soennecken along with Bock as Soennecken died off in the '50's.

Geha nibs are a slight tad springier than Pelikan, in both semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex.

Osmia nibs with the small diamond is semi-flex, with the large diamond & or Supra or just Supra on the nib, is maxi-semi-flex.

The steel is just as good as the grand gold nibs...........in Osmia was always going broke, they developed a great steel nib, long before the rest did in WW2.

Geha steel nib on the piston pens are as good as the gold ones.....Degussa nibs.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[sandy101]

I love the medium, and broad looms I bought, and the FC school pen I ppickeed up in a Woolworths in Germany.

 

The problem with GvFC is that they are not ubiqitous enough. To even see a GvFC pen I have to take the train to Oxford, whilst there are two shops in Reading flogging MontBlanc & Parker.

 

I have two GvFC pencils , but none of their pens.

 

It's entirely possible that most of their sales are in Germany & continental Europe, but in England they are not a known brand. Folk looking for a "quality pen" that costs more than £20 are more likely to look at Parker, MB and maybe Cross.

 

I'm not seeking to disparage GFvC, but they're simply not there when folk turn up to John Lewis, WH Smith or wherever to buy a nice pen.

[dapprman]

  On 11/25/2018 at 4:54 AM, Mulrich said:

Im one of the few people who much prefer a c/c filler, even on higher end pens. Pistons and other built in mechanisms arent as easy to clean as a converter.

Not so few, and even Stephen Bre Brown is on video saying he's completely changed his views about high end pens needing to be piston fillers to converter pens being just as good.

[Silent Speaker]

I was intrigued by GvFC once.

For similar reasons as laid out by the OP (eg.perceived rarity and general lack of discussion in collectors' circles etc.). They looked and felt nice in hand. Every time there was a great sale on somewhere (like this black friday weekend) I'd look long and hard at them, thinking "hmm, maybe this time I'll add one of these to the collection.

I'd mostly gotten over my filling mechanism bias, helped in no small part by the hassle of managing ink changes and the unaccommodating climate I am in (ultra humid and mold prone etc.).

 

But then,

I saw "IT"

That one thing that, to use the cliche, "Once Seen, Cannot Be Unseen"

and so ever since I noticed it, even though it was staring me right in the stupid face the entire time, I've been totally and irrevocably put off by the brand and its offerings.

 

Well, what is it that would put me in such a state of irrational rage and loathing?

It's that horrible black lip!

(the horror... the horror)

 

Look at a GvFC nib, now notice that the black plastic nib collar thing sticks out?

Yeah

That

I really ******* hate that.

It's horrible.

Hideous.

It's a thing that should be not.

Cheapens the entire look with no chance for redemption.

A fatal flaw to an otherwise very aesthetically pleasing line of pens.

I feel dirty even typing about it.

Think that every time you fill, ink will pooll into that gigantic crevasse.

For all intensive porpoises, graf von blacklippedcastell is dead to me.

Forever.

 

 

Disgusting.

 

 

 

(oh, and that general hubbub about them being prone to drying out quick was also a put-off)

Edited November 25, 2018 by Silent Speaker

[PaganArcher]

There's only been one of their ppens that appealed to me at all, and that was the 2017 pen of the year. But as a Heathen, I tend to collect things that are viking themed or inspired. Aside from that aspect, they just don't appeal to me. They look clunky and slow, and the prices are just north of true insanity.

[A Smug Dill]

  On 11/24/2018 at 7:25 AM, adim said:

I would love to know some general opinions about this manufacturer, since (a) I saw very good reviews even for their cheap pens (e.g. Loom, Ambition, Intuition) and ( b ) they do make luxury pens as well (PoTY series).

I bought a FC Ambition with an EF nib years ago, shortly after I found great delight in a whimsically bought Rotring Initial, which prompted me to look at fountain pens from brands with more recognition for technical pens, pencils, et cetera than for 'fine' or luxury writing instruments. I found it... okay, but it didn't favourably impress me, and I was especially disappointed by how the EF nib did not write much finer than the M nib on my first Rotring Initial. I haven't really found any reason since to give FC fountain pens another look, even though I like my FC e-motion pearwood ballpoint pens very much; the shape of the e-motion fountain pen just didn't look as comfortable to use, and for some reason I hate the design of the cap on that pen.

 

If FC fails to impress with pens in the price range in which the Ambition and e-motion models sit, then it certainly isn't going to get my money in a leap of faith with the far more expensive GvFC lines.

[sansenri]

some comments here seem drastic to me, and very subjective.

Subjectively, I love my Faber Castells and GvFCs.

My intuition Terracotta has an ever so smooth 18k nib, I find it extremely comfortable (I don't post any of my pens, not even Pelikan m200s, with exception of Kaweco sports...) and it cost me Euro 200.

[MuddyWaters]

  On 11/26/2018 at 12:04 AM, sansenri said:

some comments here seem drastic to me, and very subjective.

Subjectively, I love my Faber Castells and GvFCs.

My intuition Terracotta has an ever so smooth 18k nib, I find it extremely comfortable (I don't post any of my pens, not even Pelikan m200s, with exception of Kaweco sports...) and it cost me Euro 200.

Very nice pen. I think I've developed a FC and gvfc fetish

 

How is the comfort of this pen and how is the nib? If I am not mistaken, this is their thickest bodied pen right? Which model has the bigger nib?

[jar]

  On 11/26/2018 at 12:59 AM, MuddyWaters said:

Very nice pen. I think I've developed a FC and gvfc fetish

 

How is the comfort of this pen and how is the nib? If I am not mistaken, this is their thickest bodied pen right? Which model has the bigger nib?

The wood body Intuition models are wider than the resin bodied ones and the nib is larger as well.

 

http://www.fototime.com/09EBE18E95219D2/medium800.jpg

I find the whole family reliable and efficient and have never found one that did not perform. In addition their after sales support is exceptional.

 

http://www.fototime.com/EB50EB884E08D8E/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/E709C84FA0B6CF7/medium800.jpg

[adim]

Fortunately (for my wallet), I have become extremely picky with the pens that I buy: I necessarily want them to girthy (around a Montblanc 146 in size), to be piston fillers and have an ink window. And I have a good reason for that: I write quite a lot, having finished one fill of a Montblanc 146 in one sitting not very rarely and I need to easily check my ink levels (maybe for psychological reasons). It's how I like it; I have a couple of c/c pens, both resin and metal, girthier or thinner, with or without visible ink levels and very rarely use them after getting my Montblanc 146 and 149.

 

So that being said, although I do have a Loom and a Basic (both of which I like) and was eyeing an Intuition at some point, I really regret that other GvFC pens are not piston fillers. The PoTY series are superbly crafted and would no doubt be beyond awesome EDC, but I cannot justify such a price for any pen; at least in the current financial situation I'm in.

 

I'm now attracted to the new Montegrappa La Canzone del Grappa pen https://www.montegrappa.com/en/collections/edizionilimitate/lacanzonedelgrappa-1032.html?c=113

 

I was considering a Pelikan M800/805, but it doesn't 'speak' to me in any way, I'd put it in the same category with Conids: they are extremely functional, but don't appeal to my soul, I'm not feeling anything special while writing, except that I'm writing.

 

But I'm being offtopic, sorry.

[pajaro]

The style is distinctive, and I have never been able to decide if I liked it enough to buy one.

[bass1193]

  On 11/26/2018 at 5:47 AM, pajaro said:

The style is distinctive, and I have never been able to decide if I liked it enough to buy one.

This is a far more thoughtful way to say what I did previously in this thread 😅 Thankfully there are more judicious people than me in this world.

[A Smug Dill]

  On 11/25/2018 at 3:50 AM, ParkerDuofold said:

... but their price structure and lack of piston fillers and gold nibs doesn't help drive sales, either. Once you hit a certain price plateau; consumers start to expect more than a c/c pen with a steel nib... no matter how good that steel nib may be.

 

 

Platinum, Pilot and Sailor have certainly proved that the subset of consumers who are prepared to pay the largest number of dollars per pen don't see piston-fill as critical, so I'll have to say it's mainly the material of the nib and decorative workmanship on the pen body.

[Honeybadgers]

I really dislike the fact that so many high end japanese pens are C/C.

 

The exception being many of the maki-e pens. Those are works of art, the filling system is absolutely secondary to the artwork of the body. But even Pelikan manages some Maki-e pens with piston fillers.

[A Smug Dill]

@Honeybadgers, I don't want to change your mind or criticise (or attempt to invalidate) your personal tastes and preferences, in that regard or otherwise; I respect that everyone has their own, and need neither justify nor answer to anyone else on such. All I want to do is point out that:

• There are many, many fountain pen buyers and users in Asia, and – at least in the eyes of Platinum, Pilot and Sailor – they constitute a huge chunk of the actual market in terms of sheer numbers, even if they aren't always particularly vocal in online user/discussion forums (especially ones that primarily use English or another European language for communication).
• A relatively very small proportion of those Asian fountain pen users are prepared to spend a lot of money on 'things'.

So, whether a pen manufacturer wants to appeal to millions of users in the market, or to the few who have millions in spending money, it won't look to the groups of which you and I see ourselves as representative.

 

Maybe (Gv)FC could benefit from taking that perspective, if it actually wanted to gain more of a foothold commercially. Of course, that still wouldn't necessarily mean we'd see significantly more discussion and praise for the brand on a forum such as FPN.