Why Is (Graf Von) Faber Castell Not More Popular In The Fp World?

[Karmachanic]

Not popular with this fp user because I can't get past; aesthetically displeasing.  Can't speak for others.

[A Smug Dill]

13 hours ago, MuddyWaters said:

I do wonder how gvfc would fare in 'online traffic' or purchases if their intuition was priced like a sailor pro gear for example: similar size, gold nib, c/c filler.

 

I'd guess GvFC would then win a significant market share, or ‘share of wallet’, from Sailor, on account of the material and construction of the pen bodies in the Intuition model are more ‘premium’ than the plain (albeit possibly colour-blocked) resin bodies of the Sailor Pro Gear and such. It'd also do well against other brands that play in the US$200–$250 price range for their ‘grown-up’ models, because at that price point the Intuition would be a bargain in its own right, either as a functionally excellent writing instrument or by analysing the ‘teardown’ of materials and production details; on that premise it becomes competitive in a crowded segment.

[Mercian]

2 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

Not popular with this fp user because I can't get past; aesthetically displeasing.  Can't speak for others.

⬆️ What he said! 😄

 

The styling of the GvFC pens that I have seen is not pleasing to me.
Another potential problem with them for me is that I find narrow pens uncomfortable, and a third is that I find heavy pens to be uncomfortable.

 

I was once very keen on the idea of buying a Diplomat Excellence A in ‘Evergreen’ finish & CT, with a gold nib.

But the stated weight of the beast rather put me off from buying it, and I also discovered that I disliked the idea of paying that much for a c/c pen that doesn’t have an ink-window.

I already own some brass-bodied (i.e. ‘heavy’) c/c pens that don’t have ink windows (Parker Urbans in my case). I am lucky enough to like the way that my steel-nibbed Urbans write, and their balance in my hand. That fact makes it difficult for me to justify to myself the thought of buying a Diplomat Excellence. Or a GvFC pen.

Now, I don’t ‘disparage’ or ‘look down my nose at’ the choice of anyone who is comfortable for spending a lot of money on a c/c pen - who am I to try to dictate to anybody else what they ‘ought to’ feel about any pen?

Also, I don’t doubt that GvFC pens are high-quality, well-made pens that write beautifully.
But they just don’t appeal to me.
I also know that three ‘expensive’ pens that I personally love hold no appeal at all for many people, and even that those pens are actually disliked by many other people.

 

In conclusion, I think that we are all very lucky; because we live in an era in which many different tastes (whether aesthetic, filling-system, nib-grade, or nib material) are catered-for, and all at many different price-points.

 

Slàinte,
M.

[maclink]

I love how they look but couldn’t get myself to pull the trigger. I finally tried a Guilloche. Nice pen but a bit short unposted. Unfortunately, posting it lengthens, and also backweights the pen too much. The classic or Annello versions seem a bit longer allowing for comfortable use unposted. 

 

 

[sansenri]

The classic is the quintessence of GvFC, with all the characteristics that keep some people away (metal section, rather thin, crown cap) but a very nice pen if those don't bother you (and yes, slightly longer).

 

 

[MuddyWaters]

15 hours ago, maclink said:

Although we often deny being influenced by group-think and trends, I think this may well have something to do with it.  We look at some products, including some fountain pens, and are mystified by their extreme popularity when compared with other pens.  It may not have anything to do with cost as well.

 

We can see easily see how popularity propagates, in that a FP enthusiast of repute expresses admiration for a particular pen.  Another buys it and chimes in with their kudos, then another, then another etc.  Parker was aware of this phenomenon and this certainly had a lot to do with the success of their P51, in combination with the technical merits of the pen.  Montblanc knew as well and we see how successful they have been.  Unfortunately, technical merit alone, isn't enough.

 

I think it's a combination of a technically good product that has something to bring to the consumer in combination with effective and sustained promotion.  ATM, there are trends in what current FP users like and share, heavily influenced by product promotion (maintaining relevance), technical excellence and popularity.

 

Even regarding pens with similar appearances we see differences in popularity.  Look at Leonardo vs Santini pens as an example.  Leonardo pens were well promoted, I think.  They have been reviewed by and donated to reviewers.  Nicely priced etc.  Their popularity took off.  Santini, a similarly nice brand, is nowhere near as popular among FPN members and there's an ongoing thread exploring this discrepancy.

 

The GvFC pens are different in appearance and certainly 'go against' the popular trends in design, so only heavy promotion will pull attention to them.  Otherwise, only users who don't really care about popularity will seek out and use them if they do like them or are comfortable appreciating them despite their relative obscurity.

 

Santini pens are at least twice the price of Leonardo pens. Likewise gvfc pens are twice the price of sailor pens. That is enough in both cases to explain the differences in online traffic. 

 

Gvfc pens may not get as much hype on online forums as sailor but I do think there is a technical reason for that, as we talked about. Gvfc pens are actually very well distributed in all fountain pen stores I know. They are usually very well displayed in those stores. 

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, MuddyWaters said:

Santini pens are at least twice the price of Leonardo pens.

 

How did you come to that conclusion?

 

Leonardo Momento Zero, which is a cartridge/converter-filled model, in Sorrento Blue with a steel nib and (ABS) plastic feed is listed on Leonardo Officina Italiana's web site for €178 inclusive of €28.42 tax, and is therefore €149.58 ex tax.

 

The same pen with a 14K gold nib and plastic feed is €398 inc tax, or €334.45 ex tax.

 

A comparable Santini cartridge/converter-filled model, the (currently still in-production and available) Toscana Safira with an 18K gold nib and plastic feed, is listed on Santini Italia's web site for €230 ex tax.

 

4 hours ago, MuddyWaters said:

That is enough in both cases to explain the differences in online traffic. 

 

I think not.

[maclink]

On impulse (I could have posted this in the Impulse Acquisition thread but thought it more topical here), I found a pre-owned GvFC Intuition for sale and got it.

 

I much prefer it to the Guilloche.  I prefer the thicker barrel that is one piece with the section. The end of the barrel/section flares out a bit which is a subtle, but important touch to improve ergonomics. The cap also posts deeply, with a reassuring click, allowing for great balance for use when posted.  I suspect the extra engineering involved in making the barrel and section a single piece, created a special and separate production line that wasn't cost effective.  This is a great pity since I think this pen special and I'm happy that I managed to find one.

 

Here are a few photos comparing the Intuition with the Guilloche:

 

 

 

 

Both nibs perform well by the way.  The picture quality isn't stellar since they were taken with my iPhone in compromised lighting.

 

 

 

[MuddyWaters]

Congrats maclink! I'd like to try one one day. They look very nice. 

[Carloa]

A little riddle:

Not for the initiated, of course.

[mtcn77]

From my perspective, I discovered I have trypophobia at a young age and don't like crowded designs.

 

I felt GvFC Intuition was just the pen for me. The design held no compromise. Yet I had the worry the nib was too soft and malleable that wouldn't weather the daily struggles of a pen's journey. So, I purchased an E-motion.

 

Think about it, a pen that won't develop a crack in the post, a pen which is virtually indestructible, yet it is hard as a nail and will not develop hard starts and has a soft tip in case you want to write more pointed at times...

 

I wanted to get Sailor, but the durability of the body stymied the enthusiasm. I want something I can use time and time again.

 

Also, my pen fancy had a totally different beginning. Mühle makes amazing safety razors along with their classic line chrome plated ballpoint pen. Had they launched their classic body fountain pen, I wouldn't even flinch before ordering one.

[maclink]

58 minutes ago, mtcn77 said:

From my perspective, I discovered I have trypophobia at a young age and don't like crowded designs.

Your post has me thinking that Lamy would be your pen maker of choice. 

[mtcn77]

2 minutes ago, maclink said:

Your post has me thinking that Lamy would be your pen maker of choice. 

Well, I like Lamy Studio.

[austollie]

For me, the aesthetic of the flared out cap of most GvFC fountain pens is a turn off.  I find the styling of modern MBs (e.g. 149) simpler, more restrained and, to my eyes, classier.  I particularly like the look of the Montblanc M.  Unfortunately, I consider modern MBs to be overpriced, which is why I won't buy them.  I think that GvFC suffers from a combination of a fulsome pricing policy and styling that is not to the taste of those seeking more understated designs.

 

2 hours ago, mtcn77 said:

Well, I like Lamy Studio.

 

Well, Lamy is also my pen maker of choice!  To me the Bauhaus inspired Lamy 2000 embodies a simple, timeless and understated design language, whilst using quality (e.g. gold nib) and durable (e.g. Makrolon) materials that are fit for purpose.  All that at a reasonable price.  I use the Lamy 2000 is the yardstick for assessing value for money in a more upmarket pen.

[mtcn77]

6 hours ago, austollie said:

I particularly like the look of the Montblanc M. 

If you noticed, GvFC Intuition Terra color is very similar to Montblanc's Ernest Hemingway pen.

6 hours ago, austollie said:

whilst using quality (e.g. gold nib)

That is what scared me off. I'm clumsy and the pens begin writing at much less manual pressure than what my hand applies. I would like a hard Sailor nib in GvFC body. The best of both worlds.

[mtcn77]

Personally, I cannot think of any particular reason why anybody would dislike such a pen, just check it out. The writing is, well, otherworldly. i cannot time stamp for some reason, please roll to 6:00.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by mtcn77

[A Smug Dill]

34 minutes ago, mtcn77 said:

Personally, I cannot think of any particular reason why anybody would dislike such a pen,

 

10 hours ago, austollie said:

For me, the aesthetic of the flared out cap of most GvFC fountain pens is a turn off.

 

I concur with @austollie; and the pen you showed has that “particular” flaring of the cap finial, no?

[Dione]

For GvF-C one reason might be price point: they are usually expensive pens and not readily available at discount prices.  Another reason might be the flared cap finial: not aesthetically pleasing to me either.  I prefer the Guilloche.  Once you get down to the F-C level they are more available, more reasonably priced and probably more popular

[como]

@mtcn77 It's a beautiful pen no doubt. I went to a stationery shop to try it and found the section too thin and slippery for writing comfort. Each to his/her own.

[mtcn77]

2 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

 

I concur with @austollie; and the pen you showed has that “particular” flaring of the cap finial, no?

It is interesting enough not to be considered a pen first and foremost.