Why Is (Graf Von) Faber Castell Not More Popular In The Fp World?

[adim]

Hi all!

 

I want to start by saying that I've made my entrance in the 'serious' fp world thanks to this community about one year ago. Before that, I was a fp user, but not a 'serious' one, in that I wasn't reading, researching, testing and actually studying pen and ink-related stuff. So I could say I learned all I know here and I want to thank each and every one of you for that!

 

Now, to the topic of this discussion, I was wondering: given that (Gv)FC is such an old company with quite a lot of history, why is it not discussed and represented more in this community? In particular, why doesn't it have a separate section in the "Manufacturers" subforum?

 

Note that this is *not* a complaint of any sort, I'm just trying to learn more, so the possible answers I've been thinking of are:

- FC is more oriented to general stationery, drawing instruments etc. not specifically fountain pens;

- There are not so many users of (Gv)FC here, so the subforum would have been almost deserted;

 

I would love to know some general opinions about this manufacturer, since (a) I saw very good reviews even for their cheap pens (e.g. Loom, Ambition, Intuition) and ( b ) they do make luxury pens as well (PoTY series). Admittedly, it's interesting to see that they don't have a 'middle class' of pens, as the prices steeply go from $100ish to $2000ish.

 

So given this, why doesn't it get more attention here?

 

Again, not starting a rant or a love/hate discussion, I'm just trying to learn more about the brand and its reputation, since I find it interesting that Montblanc, Pelikan, Parker or others get much more attention, although (Gv)FC has a much longer history. Or did they get into fountain pens much later than the others?

Edited November 24, 2018 by adim

[KBeezie]

I guess for me personally, for pens in the 100-200 range, there's a lot of "better" (subjectively) options that don't necessarily look like a long straight stick with a thick heavy cap. Also I'm not seeing any GvFC Fountain Pen options in the US market that are regularly under $200.

About the only immediate appeal to me between their upper end design line (under the FC name) and their lower end GvFC options, is the latter being hand made and comes in a fancy packaging. But both are still standard international c/c systems, and both are bock steel nibs (far as I'm aware). And there's just not a huge amount of options as far as I can tell for GvFC until after the 350-400 price range (by which there are still other options that seem more appealing to me).

Their 250 years history seems to be predominantly wood cased pencils in graphite and color.

  Quote

Baron Lothar von Faber turned the humble pencil into the world‘s first brand-name writing implement.

There's no mention of pens what-so-ever in their company page, but pencil is mentioned twice.

[adim]

  On 11/24/2018 at 9:57 AM, KBeezie said:

 

I guess for me personally, for pens in the 100-200 range, there's a lot of "better" (subjectively) options that don't necessarily look like a long straight stick with a thick heavy cap. Also I'm not seeing any GvFC Fountain Pen options in the US market that are regularly under $200.

 

About the only immediate appeal to me between their upper end design line (under the FC name) and their lower end GvFC options, is the latter being hand made and comes in a fancy packaging. But both are still standard international c/c systems, and both are bock steel nibs (far as I'm aware). And there's just not a huge amount of options as far as I can tell for GvFC until after the 350-400 price range (by which there are still other options that seem more appealing to me).

 

Their 250 years history seems to be predominantly wood cased pencils in graphite and color.

 

 

There's no mention of pens what-so-ever in their company page, but pencil is mentioned twice.

 

 

Thanks for the reply! Yes, I was thinking that maybe they are more known for pencils and I agree that the offer is not very diverse. But at the same time, I guess the same can be said about Lamy. If you take the 2000 to be their most expensive pen, below that, the offer is similar (in numbers of options) to FC's.

 

Also subjectively, I have to say their Pen of the Year line is gorgeous, but it's hugely expensive, at least for me. Although I do appreciate the craftsmanship more than, say, Montblanc's, if, indeed, the GvFC PoTY pens are handmade and include the special materials they advertise. Regarding the filling system, it's a shame those are the only piston fillers they sell.

[minddance]

they source their nibs from Bock, no? or JoWo?

 

faber castell - it is a pencil brand. but I very much like some of their designs.

Edited November 24, 2018 by minddance

[adim]

  On 11/24/2018 at 10:36 AM, minddance said:

faber castell - it is a pencil brand

 

The Loom fp and some Pen of the Year special editions got quite a lot of attention and positive reviews, both here and on Reddit, as far as I know.

[KBeezie]

  On 11/24/2018 at 10:36 AM, minddance said:

they source their nibs from Bock, no? or JoWo?

 

faber castell - it is a pencil brand. but I very much like some of their designs.

Their nibs are made by Bock for sure on their Faber-Castell line, though I am not certain if their handmade ones under the GvFC brand are in-house or sourced by Bock.

 

  On 11/24/2018 at 10:47 AM, adim said:

The Loom fp and some Pen of the Year special editions got quite a lot of attention and positive reviews, both here and on Reddit, as far as I know.

Never tried the Loom but I tried the BASIC, their nibs on the F-C line seems to be one of the smoothest steel nibs I've had out of the box (and it's the same nib from the Loom up to the Ondoro).

 

But I found the BASIC not that well balanced to my liking, and there was a small batch of carbon fiber ones that would get a cracked section when used with a converter. Also tried their leather version. Also as I tend to post, it gets quite a bit back-heavy. Was looking into the ambitions, but seems like they have some quality control issues of their own (parts of the barrel coming unglued etc)

Edited November 24, 2018 by KBeezie

[Noihvo]

[adim]

  On 11/24/2018 at 10:59 AM, KBeezie said:

 

Their nibs are made by Bock for sure on their Faber-Castell line, though I am not certain if their handmade ones under the GvFC brand are in-house or sourced by Bock.

 

 

Never tried the Loom but I tried the BASIC, their nibs on the F-C line seems to be one of the smoothest steel nibs I've had out of the box (and it's the same nib from the Loom up to the Ondoro).

 

But I found the BASIC not that well balanced to my liking, and there was a small batch of carbon fiber ones that would get a cracked section when used with a converter. Also tried their leather version. Also as I tend to post, it gets quite a bit back-heavy. Was looking into the ambitions, but seems like they have some quality control issues of their own (parts of the barrel coming unglued etc)

 

Yes, I agree that the Basic is not well balanced. I find it back-heavy even unposted. However, as I cracked the section while carelessly unscrewing the nib unit, I luckily noticed that the same nib unit can be used for the Loom. And since I bought the Loom with an F nib and the Basic with an M, I now have a spare of a different width for the Basic. But I like it very much, it is my best "cheap" pen (and I have a Parker Sonnet, a Parker IM, a Lamy Al-Star, a Lamy Nexx and a Sheaffer Award.

 

  On 11/24/2018 at 11:46 AM, Noihvo said:

 

Yes, this could also be the case. Especially given the previous replies, namely that FC is mainly a pencil company.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Actually I think GvFC gets fair play here. Enough folks here have and like them.

 

 

In the late1920's-30's Faber Castel made a second tier fountain pen, only.

 

1936 The pencil empire, started buying into the financially troubled Osmia pen company. 1938, it's nose was too deep in, so the Boehler brothers split their Osmia company. One brother's Boehler company survived as a pen company into the 1970's. I have 3-4 or so.

 

1951 Faber Castel finished it's take over of the first tier Osmia. First tier German pens, Soennecken, MB, Pelikan, Kaweco, Lamy, Original Reform ( a very solidly made pen until he stopped making them in the mid '50's rather than make a cheap ball point chasing fountain pen), Osmia. ....not FC.

 

The very next year slowly started erasing Osmia from it's now Osmia-Faber-Castel first tier pen....first went the Osmia diamond in the Finial, then the Osmia from clip. Ego trip of Faber Castel...in it was Osmia that was the first tier pen.

 

Osmia had four or five different finials and the same number of clips.

 

Then Osmia was erased from the pen body, and finally from the nib....be it a regular semi-flex with the small diamond or the big diamond maxi-semi-flex supra nib......(((..........the supra nib stopped being made.)))

Some said a bit later in the early '60's was the end but for the Osmia diamond on the nib, my wog by 1960....Do take the more informed mid '60's as more precise. The ball point killed O-F-C also.

 

The nibs of course were made by Degussa that had bought up for bad debt, Osmia's nib factory in 1932...Osmia had even then made very, very good nibs, in Osmia was named after the osmium compound bought from a Heidelberg professor @ 1922. The best tipping in the world then.

Some info says Degussa stopped making nibs in 1970, another source says 1990 with the end of Multschler.

 

GvFC don't have in house nibs....that I've ever heard of...not since Degussa in their Osmia factory....just levels of Bock.

Don't know how Faber Castel bought nibs from when they made second tier pens....doubt that they had a nib factory them selves, when Soennecken, Kaweco, MB, Pelikan, Osmia/Degussa, from 1922 Rupp; all made nibs with other folks markings. After '38 add Bock.

 

As mentioned by Kbessie, GvFC is a heavy pen, had the modern liked nail nib ....surely made by Bock, but then again Bock has three to 5 levels of nibs, so which one?

I don't chase nails....have 4-5 which is more than enough for me.

I prefer lighter more nimble plastic pens.....(I have had 4-5 different models of GvFC in my hand at my B&M. To heavy for me, no nib worth me having....others like nails so would be good to go there.)

 

.....others that like heavy pens can get a better deal with cheaper Chinese pens for heavy metal.

 

GvFC does price it's pens high***.....it has to. They make some nice looking pens, nice wood or other materials including leather for pen barrels.

 

***All top flight pens are over priced...........but you are buying a status item.

 

 

I have nothing against a Bock nib.....but one has to remember there are different levels. Delta never had any complaints here about their Bock nib..and there are many other reputable companies using Bock nibs with no complaints of the nib.

........Viscounti has lots of complaints. They either bought too cheap like Twsbi or screwed up the nib 'in house'.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Astronymus]

I think they are too ugly.

[Uncial]

I think they are one of those pens that until you have it in your hand and use it, its good design and good writing characteristics don't reveal themselves due to a very restrained aesthetic. If you go from the Intuition upwards, they are very nice writers, well designed and with surprisingly good balance even posted. In this instance, the greater the price - generally - the better the pen. The Ambition, Loom and Emotion models aren't bad at all and represent good value for money.

[bass1193]

  On 11/24/2018 at 1:18 PM, Astron said:

I think they are too ugly.

Same here unappealing pens at a ridiculous price. At least Montblanc makes some good looking pens for a ridiculous price.

[woleizihan]

I used to own one of the Guilloche models and the pen is surprisingly comfortable in hand. Definitely a top 5 comfortable pen for me. Yes it's on the slim side but the section is long and curved beautifully and the threads are not intrusive. Kind of like the profile of a Cross Townsend.

 

The gold nib is okay, not the best nib and not the worst either. Then engravings on the nib are beautiful.

 

However, I dislike the material used...... I mean a lot. The cap is a fingerprint/scatch catcher by itself. It will get dirty very quickly and I just couldn't stop myself from wiping it all the time. I think it will be much much better if they use a sterling silver cap and I mean, at this price range, not too much to ask.

 

The body is also not so interesting to me. Handmade or not, it's just a whole bunch of curved lines on a piece of plastic...... I would rather prefer something like the Pelikan m215 styles.

[senzen]

To me it's simply a question of desirability, I do have a pearwood Ambition and it's stunning, the rest of the lineup doesn't do much for me; entirely subjective and non representative of course!

 

Then it's a question of what comes up at specific moments of purchase, I would have happily bought more Ambitions in other trims but since Lamy Studios are so unloved you can get a pen with nice design and smooth nibs at half or a third of the Ambition's price, so I ended up with four of those instead.

[SoulSamurai]

I think that maybe their pens are just not for everyone? I picked up a Basic and hated the balance. The Loom is not very interesting and doesn't look like it would be that comfortable to me, while not exactly being cheap. The Ambition is only for people who hold the pen quite high up on the body. And as you said, they don't exactly target all sectors of the market.

[ItsMeDave]

I like some of their designs, but I’m not a fan of metal sections.

[DrDebG]

Loved my FC Loom, but it was a "nail" - absolutely nothing distinctive about writing with it. But although heavy, it was a very nice pen.

 

I recently gave it to a young lady who is studying to be a civil engineer. She was fascinated by the pen when I wrote with it. So I gave it to her. She is loving it now - probably more than I did.

[adim]

Thank you all for the replies!

 

As I anticipated, the opinions are varied and it's how it should be. The main point of the discussion was that I felt it was not getting its share of attention, since most of the pluses or minuses that have been mentioned could be said about roughly any other brand, I guess.

 

For this, probably @Noihvo's and others' posts sum it up: they came quite late to the (fp) party and did not gain much popularity in the US.

 

As I said, I, for one, love the Loom and the Intuition and if I had a couple of thousands to spare, I would definitely get the Imperium Romanum or the Viking PoTY (the "or" NOT being exclusive though ).

[dapprman]

On nibs - the Faber Castell nibs are made by Jowo, the GvFC nibs by Bock, but both to their specification so they have little in common with the stock generic nibs.

 

I have three GvFC pens, and Intuition Platino (not wooden barrel so same nib as ordinary Intuition), a Guilloche Classic, and an Ebony Anello, plus I've tried a number of others and I can confirm the nibs are not nail like, quite the opposite in fact, being slightly soft and buttery smooth. Note I also have five F-C pens (an Ambition, two eMotion, a Loom, and a WRITink).

[MuddyWaters]

I think that the FC models are not as catchy as Lamy ones, and the prices are not as low as Pilot, for example. A lot of people complain about their bodies not being comfortable, hard to hold, slippery, heavy. That is probably why they aren't as popular. But I personally love them. I just got an e-motion last week, and I have a thing for their weird styles.