Experiment With Celluloid/mek

[fountainbel]

As always, Francis, your generosity is truly appreciated.

 

Just one question - you said mix the acetone and celluloid shavings and then keep overnight. This means it will dry up. So then I will add acetone again the next day to make it liquid right?

 

The mixture should be kept overnight in a closed small jar or bottle, so the acetone can't evaporate and the mixture keeps its viscosity.

[Stylomeister]

Ohh err, I was hoping we werent going to arrive at liquid celluloid paint. So its going to be an interesting and sticky journey to figure this technique out. I was rather hoping there was another, simpler way. I believe I have a tester barrel to try this out with... i might also have a go with the black Loktite if I can figure out a way to clean the brush after.

[siamackz]

 

The mixture should be kept overnight in a closed small jar or bottle, so the acetone can't evaporate and the mixture keeps its viscosity.

Oh, now I get it. Thank you friend!

[Glenn Atkins]

All-

 

I am coming into this way late!

 

Would it be possible for someone to post the most simple and non-toxic way (i.e. "recipe") for making and applying a celluloid slurry which can be used to fill small nicks, divots and/or cracks on a celluloid pen?

I have some vintage pens I've inherited which I'd love to try and restore to a condition better than the way they are now as relates to some damage to their celluloid. A couple have what appear to be divots caused by cigarette burns and I'd love to try and make them look nicer. Perfect?? No. Just nicer!!

 

Full disclosure: I am not a professional nor do I aspire to be one. I would tackle only my personal pens and, for sure, not any pens of any value. Essentially, I just want to give it a try. Some might call it "messing around!" For any pen of value I have, and will, continue to get it to a professional!!

 

Thanks for any instructions, "how-to's" or links to the information.

 

 

On brown striped vac celluloid with deep cigarette burns, I've had good success with Devcon Two Ton epoxy. Apply a thin layer with a brush. Let dry for several days. Continue this process until the material is slightly higher than the surrounding barrel. Applying thin layers over time I have not experienced any issues with bubbling, but bubbling make be unique to celluloid slurry.

 

Wet sand using micromesh starting from medium grits up through higher grits. The repaired burn is hard to find unless you know where to look.

 

Glenn

[Seney724]

Terrific! Thank you so much Glenn, your thoughts are much appreciated!

[Glenn Atkins]

Terrific! Thank you so much Glenn, your thoughts are much appreciated!

 

You're more than welcome my friend. Patience is the key in pen repair. Walk away if you get frustrated or stressed.

 

Glenn

[Seney724]

Amen.....

Pulling sections is a great test of one's patience. I'm hoping this is less taxing but am sure there will be a learning curve!

 

Thanks again!

[GlenV]

I've gone to using CA glue and accelerator works well for voids and some cracks. I like that it is at least as strong as the initial material, so polishes better and holds well. sometimes I still use celluloid and acetone but the results for me are usually better with CA. Some repairs that were previously " impossible " can be quite good. You can cloud the Ca if you apply a second layer without wiping off all the accelerator. Works really well on vac celluloid.

[Tweel]

I wonder whether anyone has used Sally Hansen "Hard as Nails" as a clear filler for celluloid pens. It contains clear nitrocellulose, solvent and camphor... and other things*, but it seems like a decent candidate for the job.

 

 

* Butyl acetate, ethyl acetate, isopropyl alcohol, nitrocellulose, adipic acid/neopentyl glycol/trimellitic anhydride copolymer, n-butyl alcohol, trimethyl pentanyl diisobutyrate, camphor, benzophenone-1, and d&c violet no. 2 (this last is a surprise, because it's water-clear; it must be there to cancel a yellowish tinge in the polymers).

[Ron Z]

I wonder whether anyone has used Sally Hansen "Hard as Nails" as a clear filler for celluloid pens. It contains clear nitrocellulose, solvent and camphor... and other things*, but it seems like a decent candidate for the job.

 

 

* Butyl acetate, ethyl acetate, isopropyl alcohol, nitrocellulose, adipic acid/neopentyl glycol/trimellitic anhydride copolymer, n-butyl alcohol, trimethyl pentanyl diisobutyrate, camphor, benzophenone-1, and d&c violet no. 2 (this last is a surprise, because it's water-clear; it must be there to cancel a yellowish tinge in the polymers).

 

No, and no. Celluloid repair is one of my specialties, and I would not try it because of the "other stuff" in it.

 

Celluloid can be rather vulnerable, and you need to be careful what you expose it to. To make it more interesting, not all celluloid is the same, even within the same manufacturer's products. Different colors can react differently, and there were variations even from batch to batch. Keep in mind that the solvents we use have been tested and used on many materials for many years, so we have a pretty good idea how they will work with the vintage celluloids. Sometimes you only find out that the stuff you tried is bad when you've caused irredeemable damage to a pen.

[Stylomeister]

If you want to get things right follow Ron's advice.

 

I was having some fun over the Christmas break with a far from perfect Black and Pearl Balance using MEK, a random piece of scrap that almost resembled the repair area and some Loktite to see how I could fill in those bubbles as I don't have a vacuum chamber (saw some great videos on YouTube using these for phone screen repairs). The idea was to get this to user grade as there is a fair amount of discolouration and some crazing to the celluloid on this one... and, well figure our the things that go wrong in the process :-)

 

First off bubbles, lots of them like pumice once you file down to shape. I think if I was starting off with a very close donor match I'd definitely try the slow build up technique and try to smooth out the bubbles and get the perfect match with no Loktite. Something else I noticed was while the black 480 is awesome for filling anything black and about the only thing that almost works with black rubber, the 406 had a tendency to leave uncured celluloid below the surface - it's not as forgiving / porous. Anyway, just some fun and experimentation here...

 

 

Before and after top view

 

 

Before and after side view - the colour match is not perfect but at normal viewing distance more difficult to notice.

 

 

Mixing up some goo and applying this to the cap

 

 

Completed cap (with a little gold plating) - I'll need to see what happens with shrinkage over time especially as the materials are not a close match composition or colour wise.

 

[GlenV]

Your Balance cap repair is great, the lighter color makes it look like it might be crazing (which it already was ha). Nice job and cool to keep the original cap. I dipped the whole end of a similar pen in acetone to seal up the crumbling and waited a couple days before working on the area. What is the goo? And do you plate with a plating pen? Thanks, nice work, I've been working on my own for years and it's cool to see other folks trying the same repairs....( I just work on my own pens)

[siamackz]

Wow! What is the goo?

[Stylomeister]

Good call on the crazing, so I did the same with sealing the crazed / crystallised end with MEK first, the goo is made from the clippings from a trashed donor cap you see in one of the photographs dissolved in the MEK into a 5ml Pyrex beaker.

 

In my case as the MEK based goo sits there for a few days shrinking, Id say that the sealing may not be 100% necessary here however it did give me a nice tacky surface to bond to.

 

And yes, pen plated and highly recommended!

[es9]

Re-upping this thread. I have a black balance cap that has a small chip missing. I was planning to wet the chipped spot with MEK, dissolve some shavings from a cracked back barrel in MEK, and then apply the goop/slurry. Is that the right approach? If so, how thick should the slurry be?