Experiment With Celluloid/mek

[siamackz]

I usually just sand down and recoat. And then do the same again. And again. And again, etc, until I get a smooth surface free of imperfections and bubble holes. It's (obviously) very time consuming - although the later layers tend to be very thin and cure much quicker than the initial fills. The end result can be almost an almost invisible repair, especially with coloured celluloid.

 

However, I must repeat that I am not a professional restorer and this work happens on my own pens.

 

Enjoy.

I was wondering the same, because its the technique I used once with a super glue filling.

 

So, for my next attempt, I will use Francis mix technique along with your suggestion of multiple coats. I hope to achieve the desired results with this. Ill report back.

 

Thanks everyone for the very educative responses. The repair forum rocks

[Ron Z]

In this particular case I am using celluloid and solvent, not epoxy. So the time at hand once the mixture is made is really quite low. Dont think a vacuum will be feasible here, will it?

 

You would have to move very quickly. I tried the vacuum thing on a number of pens, and didn't have much success - combination of the quick initial flash off of solvents, and a vacuum that wasn't quite adequate I suspect. I haven't tried it in the latest vacuum chamber.

 

It may be that Francis' suggestion of letting the slurry sit over night could help some. I did try pulling a vacuum on the slurry itself, and only succeeded in having the jar of slurry suddenly "explode" onto the lid of the chamber.

 

I also had an exciting time with the first vacuum chamber I made out of a heavy acrylic container, that seemed to work pretty well. I decided to try sealing where the hose connected in the lid a little better to see if I could increase the vacuum. It worked wonderfully well.... too well. I had a pen that I was trying to do celluloid repair on in the chamber, and let the vacuum pump run as I left the room for a minute. I heard a pop, and then the sound of the pump running with no load. I went in to find the chamber pretty much gone, with pieces of the chamber flung to the corners of the shop when it imploded. ....and you thought that I never make mistakes. I'm glad I wasn't in the room.

 

The next chamber was from a supply house, and worked pretty well, but I found over time that it wasn't performing as well. The next one set me back quite a bit, but it works very well with a two stage vacuum pump. I just haven't gone back to it for celluloid repair because of the space it takes, and the fumes the pump produces as it starts to pull a vacuum.

 

The fumes from the vacuum pump oil are a real issue if you plan to do much with a vacuum pump. It either needs to be vented to the outside, or through an oil trap. You don't want to be breathing the stuff.

[siamackz]

Thanks for the details Ron, I think I will stay away from the pump

[siamackz]

So, I used acetone instead of MEK, applied a layer, let it cure for 24 hours, sanded a little, applied again, cured 24 hours, sanded, and once again. Then I did some polishing too. It’s not perfect but I’ll accept it for a first time effort. To the naked eye it looks as good as any other vintage pen. Thanks everyone for the help. I just need more practice from here

[Inky.Fingers]

Hitching a ride with OP...Is there a cheat sheet on which solvent to use with which pen (year, make, model) ... I have a cracked cap..Geha 725 and likes to do less damage to it.

[Ron Z]

Hitching a ride with OP...Is there a cheat sheet on which solvent to use with which pen (year, make, model) ... I have a cracked cap..Geha 725 and likes to do less damage to it.

 

No.

[Inky.Fingers]

What's the proper way to test to see if MEK or acetone or epoxy will work?

[siamackz]

What's the proper way to test to see if MEK or acetone or epoxy will work?

Experiment on a piece of old celluloid if you have. Thats what I did

[siamackz]

Taking this further, how does one restore vintage celluloid Montblancs whose barrels are turning translucent because the layer of black celluloid on the inside is wearing away?

 

Do I just apply some black celluloid there? Like with a paint brush. And then smoothen it a little with micro mesh?

[CS388]

Taking this further, how does one restore vintage celluloid Montblancs whose barrels are turning translucent because the layer of black celluloid on the inside is wearing away?

 

Do I just apply some black celluloid there? Like with a paint brush. And then smoothen it a little with micro mesh?

 

Not sure if the layer of black celluloid is actually on the inside?

 

iirc: The ink window stripes are on the inside, but I seem to recall that the black barrels are coated on the outside?

 

I read this in a post on FPN many years ago, so I could be wrong, or may have got it the wrong way round?

[siamackz]

 

Not sure if the layer of black celluloid is actually on the inside?

 

iirc: The ink window stripes are on the inside, but I seem to recall that the black barrels are coated on the outside?

 

I read this in a post on FPN many years ago, so I could be wrong, or may have got it the wrong way round?

Based on the actual pen I am examining its both - inside and outside. But inside for sure

[fountainbel]

In my experience the celluloid Montblanc pens were black coated from the outside.

Never encountered one which was black coated on the inside, except fo the ink window lines.

Francis

[siamackz]

In my experience the celluloid Montblanc pens were black coated from the outside.

Never encountered one which was black coated on the inside, except fo the ink window lines.

Francis

Interesting... if the black is in fact only on the outside then how would one re colour it? Do I literally paint on layers of celluloid and then polish? Or is there a quicker and more precise way of doing this?

Thanks! See pic of the translucence:

[fountainbel]

Hi Sia,

Correction on my previous posting, sorry !

I've just encountered a MB132 on which the black celluloid layer on the barrel was effectively appleid on the inside…...

But - avoiding the piston bore gets irregular - even in this case I would apply a new black layer on the outside,

Francis

 

Interesting... if the black is in fact only on the outside then how would one re colour it? Do I literally paint on layers of celluloid and then polish? Or is there a quicker and more precise way of doing this?
Thanks! See pic of the translucence:

[siamackz]

Hi Sia,

Correction on my previous posting, sorry !

I've just encountered a MB132 on which the black celluloid layer on the barrel was effectively appleid on the inside...

But - avoiding the piston bore gets irregular - even in this case I would apply a new black layer on the outside,

Francis

 

Thanks for confirming Francis. But how do you apply it on the outside - like literally paint the whole barrel with a brush and celluloid? I can understand how to put some celluloid on small spots, but the whole barrel? How?

[Stylomeister]

Just been experimanting on rebuilding around 1cm of the end of a Balance Senior pearl and black cap that's crumbled away. I dissolved some 'perl' from an old top in my parts box and its just as Ron describes it - bubbles appear from the solvent evapoating. The problem using a resin is it won't weld to the surface and you don't get a great bond... so what to do...?

 

With the peal and black, once the pearl mixture has shrunk and set and you've sanded it down, the next trick is to build up thin layers as CS388 suggests. This time round I used a solvent based fast acting cement that will weld itself into the surface, cure and set without any bubbles. I've built this up in layers using clear and in my case black as well. You won't notice that its clear as its pretty thin and the spaces that are left behind by the bubbles are gently softened and flattened out by the solvent in the cement.

 

Hopefully I'll have this finished in the next day or so but its looking pretty close.

 

I'm sure there are better techniques but this is where I'm currently at.

[Stylomeister]

I'm also super interested in Siamack's MB problem as I have 136 long ink window barrel that's blackened from the inside and worn through at the end. There must be some sort of black stuff you can use that effectively bonds to the inside of the barrel in a relatively safe and non-sticky way. I've posted something on this previously.

 

I've tried Pen Potion #9 on my Pelikans but the MB is celluloid and it won't stick. I guess one could try some marker ink as the solvent may effectively tattoo the pigment into the celluloid but not something to experiment with on the 136 :-)

[fountainbel]

Thanks for confirming Francis. But how do you apply it on the outside - like literally paint the whole barrel with a brush and celluloid? I can understand how to put some celluloid on small spots, but the whole barrel? How?

 

Hi Sia,

Re-coating a barel with liquid celluloid is not an easy task, and takes a lot of time and growing experience.

But once one succeeded its so rewarding !

So don't start doing this in first instance on a valuable pen.

Make your liquid celluloid dissolving thin celluloid shavings in acetone .

Don't make the liquid to thick, viscosity should be somewhat like olive oil .

Mix well and let it age for 24 hours in a closed container allowing the enclosed air bubbles to escape .

Lightly sand the blackened barrel end using 1000 grit sanding paper or 000 steel wool

Perfectly tape the edge of the ink window and the blackened barrel end, obtaining a perfect transition seam between the ink window and the new celluloid layer you are going to apply.

Install a closure plug in the barrel end avoiding the liquid celluloid would enter the inner barrel threads.

Now you can start applying the liquid celluloid (LC) using a rather soft 8-10 mm wide flat brush .

I apply the LC first all around the around at the barrel end and the ink window edge, en cover the remaining part brushing lengthwise.

Let dry for at least 24 hours and then apply a second layer, let dry again for 24 hours and apply a third layer if necessary.

Normally 2 layers are sufficient in my experience, but it depends on the equal distribution of the LC

Using 1000 grit sanding paper - 2-3 cm wide - one can now start sanding obtaining a perfect cylindrical shape .

1-Wrap the sanding paper over 3/4 of the circumference, apply some water and turn the barrel back and forth while also moving the barrel axially .

You will see the higher points very quickly which you can then carefully sand down first and then restart as suggested above. Be patient, and check regularly , one easily removes to much of the new celluloid layer zand then when has to restart re-coating ( happens on 30% of the pens for me )

Finish using 2000 grit sanding paper using the same process and polish .

Wishing you succes !

Francis

[siamackz]

 

Hi Sia,

Re-coating a barel with liquid celluloid is not an easy task, and takes a lot of time and growing experience.

But once one succeeded its so rewarding !

So don't start doing this in first instance on a valuable pen.

Make your liquid celluloid dissolving thin celluloid shavings in acetone .

Don't make the liquid to thick, viscosity should be somewhat like olive oil .

Mix well and let it age for 24 hours in a closed container allowing the enclosed air bubbles to escape .

Lightly sand the blackened barrel end using 1000 grit sanding paper or 000 steel wool

Perfectly tape the edge of the ink window and the blackened barrel end, obtaining a perfect transition seam between the ink window and the new celluloid layer you are going to apply.

Install a closure plug in the barrel end avoiding the liquid celluloid would enter the inner barrel threads.

Now you can start applying the liquid celluloid (LC) using a rather soft 8-10 mm wide flat brush .

I apply the LC first all around the around at the barrel end and the ink window edge, en cover the remaining part brushing lengthwise.

Let dry for at least 24 hours and then apply a second layer, let dry again for 24 hours and apply a third layer if necessary.

Normally 2 layers are sufficient in my experience, but it depends on the equal distribution of the LC

Using 1000 grit sanding paper - 2-3 cm wide - one can now start sanding obtaining a perfect cylindrical shape .

1-Wrap the sanding paper over 3/4 of the circumference, apply some water and turn the barrel back and forth while also moving the barrel axially .

You will see the higher points very quickly which you can then carefully sand down first and then restart as suggested above. Be patient, and check regularly , one easily removes to much of the new celluloid layer zand then when has to restart re-coating ( happens on 30% of the pens for me )

Finish using 2000 grit sanding paper using the same process and polish .

Wishing you succes !

Francis

As always, Francis, your generosity is truly appreciated.

 

Just one question - you said mix the acetone and celluloid shavings and then keep overnight. This means it will dry up. So then I will add acetone again the next day to make it liquid right?

[Seney724]

All-

 

I am coming into this way late!

 

Would it be possible for someone to post the most simple and non-toxic way (i.e. "recipe") for making and applying a celluloid slurry which can be used to fill small nicks, divots and/or cracks on a celluloid pen?

I have some vintage pens I've inherited which I'd love to try and restore to a condition better than the way they are now as relates to some damage to their celluloid. A couple have what appear to be divots caused by cigarette burns and I'd love to try and make them look nicer. Perfect?? No. Just nicer!!

 

Full disclosure: I am not a professional nor do I aspire to be one. I would tackle only my personal pens and, for sure, not any pens of any value. Essentially, I just want to give it a try. Some might call it "messing around!" For any pen of value I have, and will, continue to get it to a professional!!

 

Thanks for any instructions, "how-to's" or links to the information.