The Perfect Black Ink

[torstar]

Aurora.

 

Don't need a 1,000 word essay trying to convince people.

[Flaxmoore]

Perfect is nebulous.

 

For a permanent black, I like Platinum Carbon, Noodler's HOD and Higgins Fountain Pen India.

 

For less permanent, Diamine Jet, Waterman Black.

[Darth_Roo]

+1 for Edelstein Onyx.

 

It's smooth and lubricated, luscious under the nib, enough character to shade a tiny bit, cleans out well, and comes in a great bottle

[Mongoosey]

Seems like I can't edit past posts long after they were written. I will update my running list of comparisons here:

 

Kiwa-Guro: very lubricating, a lot of nib creep leaves carbon deposits on the nib, matte finish of the writing, line width is moderate.

 

Noodler's Black: not much lubrication, no to minor nib creep, brilliant and satured finish on the page (my favourite), line width moderate to narrow

 

Pilot Black: lubricates well, no nib creep, low saturation finish with some shading but no brilliance at all, the line width is much wider than above two inks

 

Noodler's HOD: very lubricating (KG>HOD>Pilot B>>>Noodler's BB), I have not noticed nib creep, it is very dark with no shading (comparable to Noodler's BB), writing keeps some brilliance like Noodler's BB, line width is large (HOD > Pilot Black >> KG > Noodler's BB)

 

 

Overall, I would want to get a second sample of HOD to dilute it some, to reduce its lubrication and line width a tad. On the other hand, I think the lack of shading would not be remediated by reasonable dilution, which is a hit against this ink I guess.

 

I'm also curious about what's a good potentially good ratio to dilute HOD with.

 

I've read online about a bunch of people having success diluting various Noodler's inks with distilled water.

 

I can't say for certain, but HOD seems like a good candidate because it seems like it already has plenty of surfactant to handle the dilution: The lines are too wide, the ink is very smooth and sometimes too smooth to write with, the flow is never a problem. It's also so saturated with dye that it could handle a dilution with distilled water. Logically it seems made for such, but empirically... I don't yet know.

 

I might consider giving it a try.

[Mongoosey]

So I tried out a 1:1 HOD:Water dilution...

 

It's still very black. HOD is very saturated.

 

It still flows very well. There's no hiccup and the lines are solid.

 

The line width is tamed a little bit.

 

But the significant downside I noticed was that the ink seemed a little "draggy" across the page. The higher dilution makes it write "drier" even though everything else about it is solid.

 

What Noihvo mentioned previously on the thread comes to mind: It might help to dilute HOD with another ink, or add HOD to another ink (eg. Noodler's Black or whatever you may try) to help concoct a more agreeable ink.

[ScarletWoodland]

I used HOD diluted by about a third in a criminally dry, fine Platinum Plaisir. In that super stingy nib it was actually a little grey but still nicely lubricated and beautifully smooth to write with. Worked well on cr***y paper too.

 

Might be worth diluting it a bit less to see if you like it more.

[Mongoosey]

I used HOD diluted by about a third in a criminally dry, fine Platinum Plaisir. In that super stingy nib it was actually a little grey but still nicely lubricated and beautifully smooth to write with. Worked well on cr***y paper too.

 

Might be worth diluting it a bit less to see if you like it more.

 

That sounds like a good idea. I want to try that.

 

I just mixed a ratio of Noodler's Black : HOD in a 3:1 ratio. I found that to work pretty well. It immediately developed the more solid line and color of HOD while having the line width tamed like Noodler's Black, but with more the feel of the "grainy-ness/less smooth" feeling of Noodler's Black.

 

So then I added another part HOD to make the Noodler's Black : HOD ratio 3:2, and as would be expected it takes on a little more of the characteristics of HOD being smoother and more of a solid dark line, but still having a tamed line.

 

Next fill I'll probably try a 1:1 ratio along with the HOD:Water 3:1 ratio... but the point is, I think you can effectively tinker with HOD rather easily, though more input is always helpful : )

[TSherbs]

Very cool. Thanks for sharing this info.

[MuddyWaters]

Diluting HOD seems like a necessity to me especially in wetter pens. It didn't strike me as particularly beautiful though.

 

Recently I stopped using my Lamy 2000 in favour of a cheaper pen (Delike with minifude nib) and that has been lovely with Kiwa Guro. This is currently my favourite combination.

 

I do seek some permanence in the ink but it also has to be appealing to write with and see dry on the page.

[Mongoosey]

The mixing of the Noodler's Black and HOD is So-So. The color's not very attractive. It works if you have to, but I it's not a road I'd recommend.

 

I'm not a fan of diluting HOD with straight water either. I even found the HOD:Water 3:1 ratio to be quite draggy. Though, I think HOD mixed with some other black may be a solid combination if it doesn't create precipitate, but that's going down Tinker's Avenue, which I don't have the motivation for.

 

I'm using Pilot Namiki Black in my Lamy Vista-EF right now and I like it a lot. It feels like it has the right viscosity for the smooth Lamy nib. I love Sailor inks, but they're too lubricated for it, make the nib too smooth, and fatigue my hand trying to control it.

 

I was using Pelikan Edelstein Tanzanite with my Vista for a while. That ink felt wonderful with my Vista, but the color became too light. The Vista wasn't wet enough for it like a Pelikan is.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Mongoosey

[MuddyWaters]

I think pilot black needs a wet nib to really shine, or else it gets gray and loses any appeal pretty fast. While the Lamy 2000 might be considered wet, it has a tendency to spread ink out with the shape of the nib which I think the namiki black is not saturated enough for. But I appreciate its level of lubrication and waterfastness for a dye ink. I'd try it in one of my Chinese pens.

[meetbistrian]

Montblanc's Permanent black never dries on traveller's notebooks and I suspect on tomoe would be same story ...

Altrough I like the damn color

[MuddyWaters]

The Kiwa Guro has won me over by the way @Mongoosey. I am at the point of choosing which pen I use based on how well it jives with the Kiwa Guro.

 

I am thinking about a slightly cheaper cousin, Platinum Carbon Black... have you ever tried it? How does it compare?

[Mongoosey]

The Kiwa Guro has won me over by the way @Mongoosey. I am at the point of choosing which pen I use based on how well it jives with the Kiwa Guro.

 

I am thinking about a slightly cheaper cousin, Platinum Carbon Black... have you ever tried it? How does it compare?

 

I'm glad it's working for you. It is a very Pen-Dependent-Ink IME. I also found Kiwa-Guro to become a factor in determining what pen I use based on how well it jives with it.

 

I have a bottle of Platinum Carbon Black. I never used it beyond testing it in a pen. I didn't like how slick it was in the pens I have, but the pens I have have smooth nibs. I felt like it would be good match for a Platinum 3776 with how much feedback is ground into their nibs. I didn't keep my 3776 so I couldn't say from experience.

I didn't feel it was as pen friendly as Kiwa-Guro, but in something like the Platinum 3776 with the Slip & Seal mechanism I wouldn't be worried.

It wasn't as friendly on cheap paper IME, but I've read others say it works great on any paper they try it on so I don't know what to make of that. However, my experience is more congruent with Mike Matteson's Youtube review:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR7qG51-nSc&t=549s

Edited May 19, 2020 by Mongoosey

[meetbistrian]

I can only agree with @MuddyWaters, Kiwa-Guro rocks in any pen I've used it!

[Mongoosey]

I gave Platinum Carbon Black a try in my Vista with 2 nibs:

 

With my Fine nib it flowed nicely and worked pretty well on cheap paper. There was feathering, but more on the inconspicuous side. There was no bleed through, and if there was spread I didn't really notice it.

 

With my Extra Fine nib it was a super wet, feathered conspicuously, bled through, and wrote a thick line.

 

So, like that Mike Matteson review... Platinum Carbon Black is pretty nice, but it can vary. But if it works well it's a nice black ink.

[Noihvo]

[MuddyWaters]

I gave Platinum Carbon Black a try in my Vista with 2 nibs:

 

With my Fine nib it flowed nicely and worked pretty well on cheap paper. There was feathering, but more on the inconspicuous side. There was no bleed through, and if there was spread I didn't really notice it.

 

With my Extra Fine nib it was a super wet, feathered conspicuously, bled through, and wrote a thick line.

 

So, like that Mike Matteson review... Platinum Carbon Black is pretty nice, but it can vary. But if it works well it's a nice black ink.

Sounds a bit like HoD except has more maintenance issues since it's a carbon ink? Who knows what noodler's inks constitute as maintenance issues though. I don't really trust them.

 

In terms of their visual appealingness, how did carbon black compare to Kiwa guro and HoD?

[Mongoosey]

Sounds a bit like HoD except has more maintenance issues since it's a carbon ink? Who knows what noodler's inks constitute as maintenance issues though. I don't really trust them.

 

In terms of their visual appealingness, how did carbon black compare to Kiwa guro and HoD?

 

I'd personally say the maintenance of Carbon Black is about the same as an Iron Gall as long as it's not some cheap pen with a poor seal.

 

Carbon Black is a beautiful matte black. It's up there with the best of the black inks, IMO.

[Paganini]

I, too, went on a "find the perfect black ink" kick a while ago. I didn't try *every single* black ink, but I ended up with a lot of them:

 

(In bottles)

Noodler's Bulletproof Black

Noodler's Heart of Darkness

Noodler's Borealis Black

Pilot Namiki Black

Platinum Black

Platinum CARBON Black

R&K Leipiziger Schwarz

Parker Quink Black

 

(In sample vials)

Noodler's Dark Matter

J. Herbin Perle Noire

Aurora Black

 

(In cartridge)

Kaweco Black

 

The sad truth is, none of them are very good.

 

When *compared to each other,* some of them perform better than others in certain ways. For example, we all know Noodler's Borealis Black is pretty black, compared to Parker Quink, which has a sort of shaded / washed-out grey look. But none of them are very black compared to a good India ink.

 

Some of them are more or less water-resistant, but none of them will just ignore immersion, the way a good India ink will.

 

Some of them are more or less fussy about what kind of paper you put them on without feathering or bleeding, but none of them can just write on whatever, the way a ball-point with oil-paste ink can.

 

In addition, performance usually comes with some kind of cost. Those Noodler's black inks, for example, look veeeerrrry black, but they're so oversaturated that they never *ever* "dry." I have writing in notebooks from years ago that still smears to the touch.

 

Platinum CARBON Black is the only exception on my list. Not surprisingly, it's also the only ink on my list that's not dye-based. It's sort of a high-tech India ink (using carbon nanoparticles instead of soot) for fountain pens, and it behaves like one. It looks dark. It dries fast. You can soak it in water and it doesn't care until the paper disintegrates around it. Of course, the down side is that it fogs up ink windows and converters, and it's tough to clean if it clogs or dries out in the pen. My guess is that other nano-pigment inks (such as Sailor Kiwaguro) have similar upsides and downsides.

 

So far as I know, there is no ink that is impervious to water, writes on any paper without feathering and bleeding, doesn't smear when dry, and is safe to put in expensive pens. If someone finds that ink, please let me know!

 

- N