The Perfect Black Ink

[MuddyWaters]

 

I understand wanting to explore cheaper inks. I did the same. That's why I always have a bottle of Noodler's HOD and Noodler's Black.

 

I didn't like the gray sheen of Kiwa-Guro at first either, but I actually quickly stopped noticing it, and I use it on 52 gsm TRP. I honestly forget it has sheen until somebody new to the ink mentions it lol, and I do have to read back on my notes I write with it.

 

Kiwa-guro is on the drier side. I can't use it in my drier pens like my Pilot Prera or my TWSBI Eco. The line comes out "not solid" and has that sputtering look to it. BUT, and this is a big BUT, the ink will have a very consistent and solid flow if the feed/nib is consistent, not necessarily wet. When I put Kiwa-Guro in a Franklin-Christoph and a Ranga, both using a Jowo Nib Unit: The ink wrote perfectly. I wouldn't call Jowo Nib Units "wet", but rather reliable and consistent.

 

And since Kiwa-guro isn't a wet ink, but does have that lubrication, it has a very unique feel unlike any ink out there. It's velvety but it still allows for the pleasant feedback of the nib. The lubrication also makes it pleasant, even a pleasure, to write on any quality paper.

 

I personally was surprised to find that Kiwa-Guro is very low maintenance. IME it requires the least amount of maintenance for permanent inks I've used, besides Pilot Blue and Blue Black inks, but those aren't as permanent IME. After using Kiwa-guro for a while I found I didn't need to treat it any differently from a basic dye based ink (in a quality fountain pen that had a descent seal) with the rather lazy cleaning schedule I was on (once a month at most).

 

There's a reason why Kiwa-guro is a "desert island" ink for so many : )

 

IMO, it's THE best fountain pen ink.

 

--------------//----------------

 

I've also wondered how PIlot Blue and Blue Black are so water resistant while only being dye based. That's a curious point to make about how it could be from the properties of the color. A different color does mean a different structure molecule means a different function. I have a couple of Pilot Blue Black bottles myself, but I haven't committed to using it in a pen yet. I find the color to be too pale in the pens I have, and I prefer Black inks anyways. But I like Pilot Blue Black's properties as well as how well it works on any quality paper.

I'll have to use Kiwaguro in the Lamy 2000 then! It may yield nice results. It's hard to know ahead of time because pens can be so different from each other (especially the Lamy 2000). The pen I had used the Kiwaguro the most was a pilot custom 823. From what I remember, I had no issues with the ink whatsoever. Most concerns were with the pen's back-heaviness and mild baby's bottom.

 

Right now my list of must-tries:

 

1. Kiwaguro (already own)

2. Pilot Black (have some cartridges)

3. Heart of Darkness (I have a small amount left in a sample)

4. Aurora - would have to buy

[WLSpec]

Here is one from my local brick n mortar that I might as well throw into this thread - Fahrney's Ever-Write Velvet Black. It is a nice, rich black with some shading. I find it extremely reliable and nice.

[Mongoosey]

I'll have to use Kiwaguro in the Lamy 2000 then! It may yield nice results. It's hard to know ahead of time because pens can be so different from each other (especially the Lamy 2000). The pen I had used the Kiwaguro the most was a pilot custom 823. From what I remember, I had no issues with the ink whatsoever. Most concerns were with the pen's back-heaviness and mild baby's bottom.

 

Right now my list of must-tries:

 

1. Kiwaguro (already own)

2. Pilot Black (have some cartridges)

3. Heart of Darkness (I have a small amount left in a sample)

4. Aurora - would have to buy

 

I personally didn't have good results with Kiwa-Guro in my Lamy 2K, but I don't know if that was the nib or what, because that's supposed to be a wet pen.

 

Yah, I'm not a fan of the 823. That fatigued my hand in a matter sentences.

 

I tried Kiwa-Guro with my Pilot custom 74-Medium, and it was just OK. I don't know if it was the flow or the nib, but something was off.

 

A pen Kiwa-Guro worked well with which surprised me was the PenBBS 309 with a Jowo nib, but those pens aren't always reliable with replacement nibs and the Jowo in mine would shift slightly enough where I'd have to readjust it daily using a loupe, so I sadly had to quit that pen.

 

------//--------

 

Aurora Black was the first ink that wowed me. I like that one. It's worth sampling.

 

I love Take-Sumi. I think that's one of the most beautiful black inks, IMO. It's worth sampling.

 

Pilot Black is the ink I have plenty of in cartridges from purchasing Pilot pens, but I haven't tried it out yet because I always just skip to other bottled inks.

[MuddyWaters]

 

I personally didn't have good results with Kiwa-Guro in my Lamy 2K, but I don't know if that was the nib or what, because that's supposed to be a wet pen.

 

Yah, I'm not a fan of the 823. That fatigued my hand in a matter sentences.

 

I tried Kiwa-Guro with my Pilot custom 74-Medium, and it was just OK. I don't know if it was the flow or the nib, but something was off.

 

A pen Kiwa-Guro worked well with which surprised me was the PenBBS 309 with a Jowo nib, but those pens aren't always reliable with replacement nibs and the Jowo in mine would shift slightly enough where I'd have to readjust it daily using a loupe, so I sadly had to quit that pen.

 

------//--------

 

Aurora Black was the first ink that wowed me. I like that one. It's worth sampling.

 

I love Take-Sumi. I think that's one of the most beautiful black inks, IMO. It's worth sampling.

 

Pilot Black is the ink I have plenty of in cartridges from purchasing Pilot pens, but I haven't tried it out yet because I always just skip to other bottled inks.

I often read that Take Sumi is a beautiful ink. I will have to see what that is about. In another thread, I read that the Iro inks tend to have high levels of surfactant (soap) and thus can dissolve some of the silicone that is used to lubricate pistons (as I have applied to my lamy) and lead to problems for the piston mechanism. Due to this, I have somewhat black-(no pun intented)-listed this ink, though to be fair, any other well lubricated ink like Pilot Namiki line should exhibit the same behaviour, no? Oftentimes in these sort of threads we communicate our judgments about particular inks in categorical ways when that is not a valid way of presenting our findings.

 

What were the problems you ran into with your Lamy 2000 when paired with Kiwaguro? I do not think that my pen is one of those "wet" or "gushing" ones. In fact, I question the notion that L2K is a gushing pen, given that it is often associated with shading characteristics of its lines. When I write fast with Pelikan Black for example, I definitely see some areas of gray, which usually do not appear with wetter nibs, and that would make me crave for a more uniform blackness (hence perhaps thinking of HOD or aurora black).

 

TBH that same grayness is likely to appear with Pilot Black, and same for Take-Sumi, but I think people would look for that shading quality if they were using the latter.

 

While I am at it though, I may as well look for permanence in the ink, and HOD if it is wet enough and lubricating enough, could do the trick. I just hope it doesn't ruin the pen.

Edited March 23, 2020 by MuddyWaters

[TSherbs]

This thread was started in 2018. Found the inkpot under the rainbow yet?

[Mongoosey]

I often read that Take Sumi is a beautiful ink. I will have to see what that is about. In another thread, I read that the Iro inks tend to have high levels of surfactant (soap) and thus can dissolve some of the silicone that is used to lubricate pistons (as I have applied to my lamy) and lead to problems for the piston mechanism. Due to this, I have somewhat black-(no pun intented)-listed this ink, though to be fair, any other well lubricated ink like Pilot Namiki line should exhibit the same behaviour, no? Oftentimes in these sort of threads we communicate our judgments about particular inks in categorical ways when that is not a valid way of presenting our findings.

 

What were the problems you ran into with your Lamy 2000 when paired with Kiwaguro? I do not think that my pen is one of those "wet" or "gushing" ones. In fact, I question the notion that L2K is a gushing pen, given that it is often associated with shading characteristics of its lines. When I write fast with Pelikan Black for example, I definitely see some areas of gray, which usually do not appear with wetter nibs, and that would make me crave for a more uniform blackness (hence perhaps thinking of HOD or aurora black).

 

TBH that same grayness is likely to appear with Pilot Black, and same for Take-Sumi, but I think people would look for that shading quality if they were using the latter.

 

While I am at it though, I may as well look for permanence in the ink, and HOD if it is wet enough and lubricating enough, could do the trick. I just hope it doesn't ruin the pen.

 

Nothing in my experience with using Iroshizuku inks (Take-Sumi, Yama-Guri, Tsuki-Yo) suggests any noticeable problem with the surfactant dissolving silicone. I'm not saying it doesn't; I'm just saying that it wasn't significant enough for me to notice. I think my pen cleanings using brawny paper towels were the only time I noticed a significant loss in silicone, which is easy enough to replace.

 

But yes, Take-Sumi surprised me. It's not as carbon black as HOD or Kiwa-Guro, but it's still nicely dark, yet with a unique depth to it. They hit on a very curious hue, which instead of being one flat note, is a chord in harmony beautifully tuned.

 

Kiwa-Guro in the Lamy 2K (Fine) simply wrote too dry. It didn't have that bit of velvety feel it usually does. It didn't write the solid line like it did when it flowed well in my Franklin-Christoph and Ranga (Jowo nib units) and PenBBS 309-Jowo.

 

I also always have an apprehension of putting Noodler's inks in more expensive pens. I don't mind them in my Pilot Prera or Lamy Vista, both of which are very easy to clean out. IME though, I've had no problems with HOD nor Noodler's Black.

 

But when I test a pen out, I always see if Kiwa-Guro works with it first. It's my Desert Island ink. If Kiwa-Guro doesn't work, and I want water resistance, I then try out Noodler's inks in the pen. If I don't need water resistance I have Aurora Black and Take-Sumi.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Mongoosey

[Pjake]

Over the course of the past fifteen years or so, the three that I have used exclusively are: (in order of frequency)

 

- Aurora

- Herbin Perle Noir

- Heart of Darkness

 

Peter

[sakib]

 

I understand wanting to explore cheaper inks. I did the same. That's why I always have a bottle of Noodler's HOD and Noodler's Black.

 

I didn't like the gray sheen of Kiwa-Guro at first either, but I actually quickly stopped noticing it, and I use it on 52 gsm TRP. I honestly forget it has sheen until somebody new to the ink mentions it lol, and I do have to read back on my notes I write with it.

 

Kiwa-guro is on the drier side. I can't use it in my drier pens like my Pilot Prera or my TWSBI Eco. The line comes out "not solid" and has that sputtering look to it. BUT, and this is a big BUT, the ink will have a very consistent and solid flow if the feed/nib is consistent, not necessarily wet. When I put Kiwa-Guro in a Franklin-Christoph and a Ranga, both using a Jowo Nib Unit: The ink wrote perfectly. I wouldn't call Jowo Nib Units "wet", but rather reliable and consistent.

 

And since Kiwa-guro isn't a wet ink, but does have that lubrication, it has a very unique feel unlike any ink out there. It's velvety but it still allows for the pleasant feedback of the nib. The lubrication also makes it pleasant, even a pleasure, to write on any quality paper.

 

I personally was surprised to find that Kiwa-Guro is very low maintenance. IME it requires the least amount of maintenance for permanent inks I've used, besides Pilot Blue and Blue Black inks, but those aren't as permanent IME. After using Kiwa-guro for a while I found I didn't need to treat it any differently from a basic dye based ink (in a quality fountain pen that had a descent seal) with the rather lazy cleaning schedule I was on (once a month at most).

 

There's a reason why Kiwa-guro is a "desert island" ink for so many : )

 

IMO, it's THE best fountain pen ink.

 

--------------//----------------

 

I've also wondered how PIlot Blue and Blue Black are so water resistant while only being dye based. That's a curious point to make about how it could be from the properties of the color. A different color does mean a different structure molecule means a different function. I have a couple of Pilot Blue Black bottles myself, but I haven't committed to using it in a pen yet. I find the color to be too pale in the pens I have, and I prefer Black inks anyways. But I like Pilot Blue Black's properties as well as how well it works on any quality paper.

IMO it is THE MOTHER OF ALL INKS

[MuddyWaters]

I might be saying something sacrilegious here, but I have been enjoying writing with the standard waterman serenity blue. When the pilot blue black arrives, which is apparently somewhat permanent and more on the blue side, that might be worth an extensive trial. Otherwise, when it comes to black inks, my next trial will be with the Kiwa Giro that I already own.

[MuddyWaters]

The Lamy 2000 is loaded up with Kiwa Guro! My first impression is that there is a lot of silky lubrication. The ink is very black. I didn't notice the graphite shine too much. The nib width is pretty much the same as with the Serenity Blue.

 

TBH, I am intrigued by this:

But yes, Take-Sumi surprised me. It's not as carbon black as HOD or Kiwa-Guro, but it's still nicely dark, yet with a unique depth to it. They hit on a very curious hue, which instead of being one flat note, is a chord in harmony beautifully tuned.

now if only Take-Sumi was permanent!

Edited March 25, 2020 by MuddyWaters

[TSherbs]

 

now if only Take-Sumi was permanent!

 

yeah, that's the rub: no such thing as a beautiful and balanced and silky permanent ink

 

I LOVE the feel and look of Take-sumi....

[Mongoosey]

The Lamy 2000 is loaded up with Kiwa Guro! My first impression is that there is a lot of silky lubrication. The ink is very black. I didn't notice the graphite shine too much. The nib width is pretty much the same as with the Serenity Blue.

 

TBH, I am intrigued by this:

now if only Take-Sumi was permanent!

 

 

 

 

Ah, yes... Take-Sumi... If that was permanent I'd be one happy camper, too lol.

 

But at least there's Kiwa-Guro. It sounds promising in your L2K! I'm curious to hear how it works out for you. I hope it works out well : ) That ink really allows a fountain pen expand further into the practical world. It can really turn a pen into an EDC and make it so that all you need is that one pen. I agree with Sakib: It's THE MOTHER OF ALL INKS, and for good reason,

 

And I love how dark the Kiwa-Guro line is. It lets me write in candlelight even,

 

And that silky smoothness highlights that tactile dimension an ink can add to the writing experience.

 

Sailor made an extraordinary ink.

[MuddyWaters]

I understand now that there is likely no perfect black ink, because I agree with the facts shared about Kiwa-Guro but have not been as thrilled at this time - my subjective tastes may have changed. The following applies for the my Lamy 2000, medium nib.

 

In fact: Kiwa guro is a high quality ink. It is dark black. It leaves a thick deposit of ink on the page. Despite this, it does not smudge much after a few seconds. It does not shade. It sheens graphite. It is permanent. It bleedthroughs very very little despite how much you drop onto the page. It feels like rubbing one's fingers on velvet as the nib flows against the page. It smells bad, like other Sailor inks in my experience.

 

 

My taste: I am not a huge fan of the velvet feel. A bit of metal-on-paper rather than finger-on-velvet feedback may be what I prefer. These days, I am also preferring to see some shading in my writing, and perhaps some warmer tones rather than purely cold ones. The gravest words I have ever read were printed in black but my words are not grave, and I am not sure that they are all essential to posterity. As such, for my daily journaling, the permanence of kiwa-guro may be overkill and less important than the feel and look of the ink on paper. I am also put off by the smell of this ink.

 

I will continue this fill of ink and continue to give Kiwa-Guro a chance. Again, it is objectively a very good ink that I would recommend to others. At this time, it does not fit my subjective criteria. After this fill is over, I will likely use the Pilot Blue Black that is in transit. I may even buy a bottle of Waterman Serenity Blue. Upon my return to black inks, I will want to try Noodler's Black (warm tones and permanent) and Take Sumi (cold tones, shading, not waterproof at all), but also Pilot Black (grayish, and more permanent than TS). I should also try HOD again, though that is likely not to shade much, but is at least permanent.

[Mongoosey]

I like your feedback. I actually agree with you... But I will say I actually learned to love the smell of Kiwa-Guro lol, and I don't know why lol.

 

Like Aurora Black, Kiwa-Guro is not my favorite shade of black, though it does fall within my "happy with it" preference.

My Favorite shades of black, with which I have an emotional affinity for, are HOD, which is warm and vibrant, and Take-Sumi, which has that cool hue to it due to the blue and violet dye in it.

 

I honestly find Kiwa-guro to be too smooth for some of my pens. I found it to be too lubricating with my Pilot Custom 74 M, with which I couldn't feel the page I was writing on. I need a little bit of feedback otherwise it's too much effort to control the nib.

 

I didn't like Noodler's Black at first. It can be too gray in my drier pens. But after a while with a descent flowing pen I warmed up to it's tone which had a Sepia-like quality to it that reminded me of those old western photos. That association made it click with me and I liked it after that. It can have smudging problems on higher quality paper, but a blotting paper may help that.

 

Right now I'm testing out the world of Extra-Fine nibs for the first time, and using a Kakuno-Fine (Extra Fine enough for now lol) with HOD, and I'm surprised how much I like this combo lol. I've always liked how HOD flowed in the nibs and feeds of the Metro/Explorer/Kakuno/ect.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Mongoosey

[MuddyWaters]

One of my biggest pains with Kiwa guro right now is that I have trouble controlling the pen because it is too slippery and lacks tactile feedback.

 

How does HOD compare in terms of lubrication? And does it shade at all?

 

The sepia tones are what I remember of noodler's black. It could be pretty in a Lamy 2000 medium nib.

[Mongoosey]

One of my biggest pains with Kiwa guro right now is that I have trouble controlling the pen because it is too slippery and lacks tactile feedback.

 

How does HOD compare in terms of lubrication? And does it shade at all?

 

The sepia tones are what I remember of noodler's black. It could be pretty in a Lamy 2000 medium nib.

 

Yah, that's too smooth for a lubricated ink.

 

I need feedback as well, otherwise my hand fatigues from the added effort needed to control it and the pen gets uncomfortable from me pressing down just to get some feedback.

 

HOD can vary. It has been too smooth for me sometimes as well, but sometimes it has just the right consistency. My main problem with HOD is that it writes a wide line up to a full nib size larger depending on the wetness of the pen/nib.

 

Noodler's Black could be pretty in an L2K-M. It's not too dry.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Mongoosey

[MuddyWaters]

I would also want to avoid doubling of the line width (adjusting to my particular pen), so might forego HOD.

 

I think I will try pilot black, noodler's black and take Sumi next.

 

But today, I got more used to the feel of Kiwa guro. I still find it too dark and contrasts too much with the page. I will compare it next to a shading dye-based ink.

[TSherbs]

I would also want to avoid doubling of the line width (adjusting to my particular pen), so might forego HOD.

 

I think I will try pilot black, noodler's black and take Sumi next.

 

But today, I got more used to the feel of Kiwa guro. I still find it too dark and contrasts too much with the page. I will compare it next to a shading dye-based ink.

 

My Take-sumi runs wet in most pens. Smoother than HOD, but both widen the line a bit. I still like them both, but I also like wet pens (a "dry" nib to me is the worst feel).

[MuddyWaters]

Is everyone enjoying their black inks as they empty their hearts of darkness onto the page in this time of quarantine?

 

I am still on the kiwa guro. I have to admit I've been eyeing take Sumi but knowing that I might like a warmer black I should really look into getting a sample of noodler's black too.

[MuddyWaters]

I finished my fill of Kiwa-guro and started to enjoy it by the end. The was so smooth and thick that it made the writing angle more forgiving: there was enough ink to coat the nib tip around the angles of the somewhat squared off medium lamy 2000 nib. The only drawback was some cosmetic nib creep.

 

I have just put in a fill of Noodler's Black from a sample I purchased. There are severe performance issues such as lack of flow which make me doubt whether this batch was a good one. I think that I will simply empty this fill back and try the next ink: HOD or platinum carbon black.

 

Edit: seems to be flowing better on second try. Maybe there was an air bubble or something. I will stick with it and see how it goes. For now, since the Lamy 2000 is a fairly wet pen, there is not too much shading as the ink is quite saturated. There is a bit more of that watery brilliance that I like from fountain pen inks. The BB lubricates the nibtip less, making it somewhat easier to control, though it also makes the nibtip more susceptible to skipping due to less coating of the tip.

Edited April 6, 2020 by MuddyWaters