The Perfect Black Ink

[MuddyWaters]

Noodler's is a frustrating brand.

 

My experience makes me quite hesitant to use Noodler's inks in certain pens, many in fact, usually being those of a higher price.

 

They vary so Gosh Darn much that you don't know what you're going to get.

 

BUT when you find one that works for you in a certain pen, it's fantastic, especially with how affordable they are (at least here in the U.S.). And all the frustration subsides...

 

BUT then you pray Nathan Tardiff doesn't change the Gosh Darn formula, breaks your heart, and makes you give up for an indeterminate amount of time again lol.

 

I finally found a home for a Noodler's Ink I haven't used for a long time: Walnut in a Lamy Vista EF. I hope he doesn't change that formula.

I was reading through this thread and saw on previous page heart of darkness is your favourite ink. Still the case? Would you put it in an expensive pen?

[Mongoosey]

I was reading through this thread and saw on previous page heart of darkness is your favourite ink. Still the case? Would you put it in an expensive pen?

 

You point out my ambivalence towards HOD. It was my first love, and when it works well in a pen it's my favorite,

 

but it tends to write a thick line up to 1 size larger than the nib, and it leaves behind a residue that's hard to clean out of crevices.

 

That's OK for my Prera which is easy to completely clean, feed and all, and has a dryness that tames the line width.

 

That was OK for my Vista, which is also easy to completely clean, feed and all, but after a short while of using it the tines opened up and it began to write too wide a line, so I switched to Noodler's Walnut.

 

For more expensive pens I recommend Sailor Kiwa-Guro, which has become my desert island ink. It's easier maintenance, feels great, and works well on any paper.

 

But I didn't end up using Kiwa-Guro with my Prera because it was too dry an ink for that pen.

I didn't end up using Kiwa-Guro with my Vista because the ink has a high surface tension that retarded its flow past the converters narrowed nozzle.

 

And since I honestly only ever use Permanent/High Water Resistant Ink, I'll resort to Certain Noodler's inks if Kiwa-Guro doesn't work, as long as I know they aren't too high maintenance, and HOD and Walnut aren't bad.

 

I have had issues with Old Manhattan Black, which is a dirty ink.

[Arkanabar]

I always dilute any black by Noodler's, and find that performance is improved while saturation and density are barely affected -- even at 1:1 with water, Noodler's Black is nigh unchanged ( thread with pictures ). I remember another thread where it was diluted as much as 90% with water, and remained legible. Diluting Borealis Black 4:5 with water merely tamed its featherocity, while barely affecting its apparent saturation. I also found HoD to work better when diluted 5:2 or so, but it could probably stand more. Bad Black Moccasin is an ink I hope never to own again; after my wife let it dry out in her Nib Creaper, I found it absurdly difficult to clean out. If/when I find the ultrasonic cleaner, I'm going to give that a try. I dilute BBM 1:1 with water, and I'm currently using it in an acrylic FPR Himalaya that I know I can knock down to component parts and scrub with toothbrushes and cotton swabs, should the need arise.

 

eta: Bear in mind that I write on cheap copy paper, often salvaged after being run through our old HP Laserjet 1018. Most often it's the GP "Basic" copy paper (20lb, 88 brightness) sold at Walmart.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Arkanabar

[Mongoosey]

I always dilute any black by Noodler's, and find that performance is improved while saturation and density are barely affected -- even at 1:1 with water, Noodler's Black is nigh unchanged ( thread with pictures ). I remember another thread where it was diluted as much as 90% with water, and remained legible. Diluting Borealis Black 4:5 with water merely tamed its featherocity, while barely affecting its apparent saturation. I also found HoD to work better when diluted 5:2 or so, but it could probably stand more. Bad Black Moccasin is an ink I hope never to own again; after my wife let it dry out in her Nib Creaper, I found it absurdly difficult to clean out. If/when I find the ultrasonic cleaner, I'm going to give that a try. I dilute BBM 1:1 with water, and I'm currently using it in an acrylic FPR Himalaya that I know I can knock down to component parts and scrub with toothbrushes and cotton swabs, should the need arise.

 

eta: Bear in mind that I write on cheap copy paper, often salvaged after being run through our old HP Laserjet 1018. Most often it's the GP "Basic" copy paper (20lb, 88 brightness) sold at Walmart.

 

I might have to give that a try with Heart of Darkness.

[Noihvo]

I always dilute any black by Noodler's, and find that performance is improved while saturation and density are barely affected -- even at 1:1 with water, Noodler's Black is nigh unchanged ( thread with pictures ). I remember another thread where it was diluted as much as 90% with water, and remained legible. Diluting Borealis Black 4:5 with water merely tamed its featherocity, while barely affecting its apparent saturation. I also found HoD to work better when diluted 5:2 or so, but it could probably stand more. Bad Black Moccasin is an ink I hope never to own again; after my wife let it dry out in her Nib Creaper, I found it absurdly difficult to clean out. If/when I find the ultrasonic cleaner, I'm going to give that a try. I dilute BBM 1:1 with water, and I'm currently using it in an acrylic FPR Himalaya that I know I can knock down to component parts and scrub with toothbrushes and cotton swabs, should the need arise.

 

eta: Bear in mind that I write on cheap copy paper, often salvaged after being run through our old HP Laserjet 1018. Most often it's the GP "Basic" copy paper (20lb, 88 brightness) sold at Walmart.

 

 

 

I might have to give that a try with Heart of Darkness.

[Mongoosey]

 

 

 

That's good to know. Thank you. I was wondering how the wetness and properties would be affected.

 

Though HOD works well with my Prera- M, I get tired of having to post it to use it.

 

I've thought about getting a Pilot Custom 91 or 912 with a Fine nib to dedicate to HOD. Pilot Gold nibs are smooth enough for me to go finer, and I like how HOD is such an inexpensive ink,

 

But right now I prefer just having a pen inked with Kiwa-guro because, unlike HOD, it works so well on cheaper paper,

 

Which allows me to use a fountain pen anywhere I go, and only need 1 fountain pen inked at a time.

 

I'll end up following through with the idea of having a dedicated pen for HOD, but right now Kiwa-Guro puts that on the back burner, and my new found love for Noodler's Walnut doesn't help either.

[Arkanabar]

I've always written on salvage paper, from my earliest childhood, when my dad brought home discarded line printer printouts from work for us to draw on.

 

My first black after college was Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black, and I used it in my rather wet fine blue swirl M200 basically from the time I got it. When I say undiluted Borealis Black is featherocious, I was talking about in this pen, on generic Staples copy paper.

 

But the same pen, when filled with 4001 Brilliant Black, did NOT feather when I used it on a bunch of Domino's flyers that I salvaged because they were letter-sized, and I got about 4 reams of single-sided paper for free out of it.

 

TL, DR: If you want good saturation, good behavior, good water and fade resistance, and super cheap to use, get a 250mL or 1L bottle of Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black. Just buy yourself a sample first.

[MuddyWaters]

I've always written on salvage paper, from my earliest childhood, when my dad brought home discarded line printer printouts from work for us to draw on.

 

My first black after college was Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black, and I used it in my rather wet fine blue swirl M200 basically from the time I got it. When I say undiluted Borealis Black is featherocious, I was talking about in this pen, on generic Staples copy paper.

 

But the same pen, when filled with 4001 Brilliant Black, did NOT feather when I used it on a bunch of Domino's flyers that I salvaged because they were letter-sized, and I got about 4 reams of single-sided paper for free out of it.

 

TL, DR: If you want good saturation, good behavior, good water and fade resistance, and super cheap to use, get a 250mL or 1L bottle of Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black. Just buy yourself a sample first.

What evidence is there that it is water and fade resistant? From what I understood, this ink is quite typically a fountain pen ink, meaning well behaved and easy to clean, which I gather can indicate it is not too fade resistant. I ask because I am indeed interested in buying in bulk.

[MuddyWaters]

Arkanabar, I later saw a comparison you had posted showing 4001 Black's good fade resistance. Another good one was HoD. I will try to get samples of each, including carbon inks.

[Arkanabar]

HoD is about bulletproof; its legibility is hardly affected by anything that doesn't destroy the paper. 4001 Black will run a bit when wet, but the line retains legibility. It will fade a bit in sun, but it's nowhere so fugitive as, say, Waterman Purple or even Diamine Sherwood. Prior to Noodler's, it was regarded as among the hardiest of inks.

[MuddyWaters]

I have been using a regular penbbs nib lately (upturned fine) and quite enjoy it, however, there is some feedback on horizontal strokes, perpendicular to the direction of the upturn curvature. I am in the process of trying a variety of black ink samples.

 

The noodler's black was more brownish, warm "black". It was not ugly persay but I did not have the feeling that it coated the nib much to mitigate the little bit of scratchiness. I then tried heart of darkness, and this one being wetter, did seem to provide a little more lubrication, but it is not quite where I would like it. The nib still skips on those horizontal strokes too.

 

So I wonder if there would be a more lubricated ink, with permanent features and also economical. I have a sample of platinum carbon black to try next, and also a bottle of sailor kiwa guro. This is for good and smooth paper.

 

Any suggestions? The other option would to add a drop of dish soap to the ink I guess? Would that interfere with permanent properties?

 

I forgot to add that I also have some pilot black cartiges from which I can extract the ink, and I know this ink to be both very economical and quite lubricating, though not marketed as permanent.

Edited August 8, 2019 by MuddyWaters

[Timotheus]

J. Herbin's Perle Noire and Aurora's black are my favorites too.

 

But there is still another black ink I like very much: Pilot's black (not the Iroshizuku; Pilot's basic black ink). It's a perfect companion to my Pilot Custom 74. Unfortunately, in Europe this ink is available only in cartridges. In bottles, it's almost impossible to find. Cult Pens, however, sells it also in (60 ml) bottles.

[torstar]

Aurora

[MuddyWaters]

Just tested noodler's black vs heart of darkness vs platinum carbon black in my main pen, which is a penbbs. Both noodler's lacked lubrication and made the nib prone to skipping, even if the heart of darkness was wetter. Carbon black is more lubricated and limits the amount of skipping that occurs on cross strokes of the upturned nib.

 

Next I want to try kiwa guro, and then pilot black.

[MuddyWaters]

This thread deserves a bump imo. It contains so much good information on black inks that I was able to obsess over.

 

Most recently, I have been using a bottle of Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black. This ink is a JH Perle Noire killer imo: the colour and properties are very close (not overly lubricating but dark), and the bottle is much easier to use and the ink much cheaper. These two inks also have an undershade of purple when washing out the ink of a pen.

 

I have gone back to using my Lamy 2000. I would like a darker ink that is friendly in this piston-filler. I have not tried Aurora Black and really I think it is the next logical step. In the L2K, the Pelikan Black comes out less black (the pen not being overly wet) likely due to its relative dryness. At the same time, a bit more lubrication would be helpful to improve the experience with the nib, so Aurora would fit the bill.

 

Ultimately, I would want to use a permanent black but I prefer not to leave (bleep) in this pen. I actually have a bottle of Pilot blue-black coming my way in a few weeks which might provide good lubrication, permanence, cheapness desired, though not black.

Edited March 21, 2020 by MuddyWaters

[Mongoosey]

This thread deserves a bump imo. It contains so much good information on black inks that I was able to obsess over.

 

Most recently, I have been using a bottle of Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black. This ink is a JH Perle Noire killer imo: the colour and properties are very close (not overly lubricating but dark), and the bottle is much easier to use and the ink much cheaper. These two inks also have an undershade of purple when washing out the ink of a pen.

 

I have gone back to using my Lamy 2000. I would like a darker ink that is friendly in this piston-filler. I have not tried Aurora Black and really I think it is the next logical step. In the L2K, the Pelikan Black comes out less black (the pen not being overly wet) likely due to its relative dryness. At the same time, a bit more lubrication would be helpful to improve the experience with the nib, so Aurora would fit the bill.

 

Ultimately, I would want to use a permanent black but I prefer not to leave (bleep) in this pen. I actually have a bottle of Pilot blue-black coming my way in a few weeks which might provide good lubrication, permanence, cheapness desired, though not black.

 

I like Pilot Blue Black. It provides excellent lubrication, it even feels great on cheap paper, it even works great on cheap paper, has good water resistance, and is very pen friendly. It's one of the best inks out there if the color works for you. In some of my drier pens it's far too pale.

 

How did you like Kiwa-Guro?

[MuddyWaters]

 

I like Pilot Blue Black. It provides excellent lubrication, it even feels great on cheap paper, it even works great on cheap paper, has good water resistance, and is very pen friendly. It's one of the best inks out there if the color works for you. In some of my drier pens it's far too pale.

 

How did you like Kiwa-Guro?

I have a bottle of Kiwa Guro and didn't use it much because I wanted to explore cheaper inks to see if they would be worthy of long-term purchases (obsessive side in me). When I did try it, I found it ok but was not a fan of the gray sheen or reflection (whatever you want to call it). Also, if Kiwa Guro is good on cheap paper then it must mean it is on the drier side? From what I recall though, it had good lubricating properties. Ultimately though, I am concerned it would leave gunk in my piston filler since I only exhaust the fill in 2-4 weeks on average. But yes, the most logical thing would be to try Kiwaguro next, before buying a new bottle of ink (aurora).

 

It seems that blue-black inks involve less compromise when it comes to obtaining permanent qualities. There must be something about the colour that makes them more easily permanent than black.

[Mongoosey]

I have a bottle of Kiwa Guro and didn't use it much because I wanted to explore cheaper inks to see if they would be worthy of long-term purchases (obsessive side in me). When I did try it, I found it ok but was not a fan of the gray sheen or reflection (whatever you want to call it). Also, if Kiwa Guro is good on cheap paper then it must mean it is on the drier side? From what I recall though, it had good lubricating properties. Ultimately though, I am concerned it would leave gunk in my piston filler since I only exhaust the fill in 2-4 weeks on average. But yes, the most logical thing would be to try Kiwaguro next, before buying a new bottle of ink (aurora).

 

It seems that blue-black inks involve less compromise when it comes to obtaining permanent qualities. There must be something about the colour that makes them more easily permanent than black.

 

I understand wanting to explore cheaper inks. I did the same. That's why I always have a bottle of Noodler's HOD and Noodler's Black.

 

I didn't like the gray sheen of Kiwa-Guro at first either, but I actually quickly stopped noticing it, and I use it on 52 gsm TRP. I honestly forget it has sheen until somebody new to the ink mentions it lol, and I do have to read back on my notes I write with it.

 

Kiwa-guro is on the drier side. I can't use it in my drier pens like my Pilot Prera or my TWSBI Eco. The line comes out "not solid" and has that sputtering look to it. BUT, and this is a big BUT, the ink will have a very consistent and solid flow if the feed/nib is consistent, not necessarily wet. When I put Kiwa-Guro in a Franklin-Christoph and a Ranga, both using a Jowo Nib Unit: The ink wrote perfectly. I wouldn't call Jowo Nib Units "wet", but rather reliable and consistent.

 

And since Kiwa-guro isn't a wet ink, but does have that lubrication, it has a very unique feel unlike any ink out there. It's velvety but it still allows for the pleasant feedback of the nib. The lubrication also makes it pleasant, even a pleasure, to write on any quality paper.

 

I personally was surprised to find that Kiwa-Guro is very low maintenance. IME it requires the least amount of maintenance for permanent inks I've used, besides Pilot Blue and Blue Black inks, but those aren't as permanent IME. After using Kiwa-guro for a while I found I didn't need to treat it any differently from a basic dye based ink (in a quality fountain pen that had a descent seal) with the rather lazy cleaning schedule I was on (once a month at most).

 

There's a reason why Kiwa-guro is a "desert island" ink for so many : )

 

IMO, it's THE best fountain pen ink.

 

--------------//----------------

 

I've also wondered how PIlot Blue and Blue Black are so water resistant while only being dye based. That's a curious point to make about how it could be from the properties of the color. A different color does mean a different structure molecule means a different function. I have a couple of Pilot Blue Black bottles myself, but I haven't committed to using it in a pen yet. I find the color to be too pale in the pens I have, and I prefer Black inks anyways. But I like Pilot Blue Black's properties as well as how well it works on any quality paper.

[khalameet]

If you like the qualities of Pilot Blue Black but want a black ink, why don't you try Pilot Black? Lubrication, permanency etc. are exactly the same.

I use both inks for years now and they are amazing. Recently the black gets more use. It is not the blackest black out there, but it is really water resistant, has consistent flow and lubricates the nib nicely without being overly wet.

[MuddyWaters]

If you like the qualities of Pilot Blue Black but want a black ink, why don't you try Pilot Black? Lubrication, permanency etc. are exactly the same.

I use both inks for years now and they are amazing. Recently the black gets more use. It is not the blackest black out there, but it is really water resistant, has consistent flow and lubricates the nib nicely without being overly wet.

 

Pilot black was my first ever ink, in a cartridge for my first pen, a pilot metro, and I remember the clear disappointment I had when I started to fill the pen with JH Perle Noire and started to feel distinctly more feedback. Recently when I have used Pilot Black, I have found it insufficiently black (and sometimes too libricated - depends on the pen), which is why I went Pelikan 4001's way but I should try it in my Lamy 2000 and see.

 

Edit: It may seem like I don't like JH Perle Noire but I think it's a fine ink like 4001, just not convenient with its bottle shape and price.

Edited March 22, 2020 by MuddyWaters