The Perfect Black Ink

[Bro78]

Hallo,

from my (limited) experience a small TOP5:

 

#1 Kiwa Guro, love the color&sheen, waterproof, silk smooth, no feathering even on TP, my work ink of choice.

#2 Perle Noire, very saturated total black, limited water resistance, not so expensive.

#3 4001 black, super cheap, not so lubrificated, but it works decently on bad paper, very saturated. The only 4001 I like.

#4 Take Sumi, very very subtle shading, gives a lot of structure on writing, ultra smooth (not as Kiwa Guro), but not waterproof and crazy expensive.

#5 Aurora black, seems very similar to Perle Noire to me.

 

Honorable mentions:

 

Sailor Miruai, dark dark green, easily can be seen as black, super flow, super smooth, great ink with lots of personality.

Sailor Doyou, sepia, a little washed out black, i love it and it cleans my pens from stains.

 

hope it helps !

[Mongoosey]

Hallo,

from my (limited) experience a small TOP5:

 

#1 Kiwa Guro, love the color&sheen, waterproof, silk smooth, no feathering even on TP, my work ink of choice.

#2 Perle Noire, very saturated total black, limited water resistance, not so expensive.

#3 4001 black, super cheap, not so lubrificated, but it works decently on bad paper, very saturated. The only 4001 I like.

#4 Take Sumi, very very subtle shading, gives a lot of structure on writing, ultra smooth (not as Kiwa Guro), but not waterproof and crazy expensive.

#5 Aurora black, seems very similar to Perle Noire to me.

 

Honorable mentions:

 

Sailor Miruai, dark dark green, easily can be seen as black, super flow, super smooth, great ink with lots of personality.

Sailor Doyou, sepia, a little washed out black, i love it and it cleans my pens from stains.

 

hope it helps !

 

I love Sailor Doyou. I have a bottle from the old days before the price skyrocketed : (

[essayfaire]

I use Sailor Jentle in the pen I keep permanently inked with black. I have been happy with MB in the past as well.

[MuddyWaters]

Hallo,

from my (limited) experience a small TOP5:

 

#1 Kiwa Guro, love the color&sheen, waterproof, silk smooth, no feathering even on TP, my work ink of choice.

#2 Perle Noire, very saturated total black, limited water resistance, not so expensive.

#3 4001 black, super cheap, not so lubrificated, but it works decently on bad paper, very saturated. The only 4001 I like.

#4 Take Sumi, very very subtle shading, gives a lot of structure on writing, ultra smooth (not as Kiwa Guro), but not waterproof and crazy expensive.

#5 Aurora black, seems very similar to Perle Noire to me.

 

Honorable mentions:

 

Sailor Miruai, dark dark green, easily can be seen as black, super flow, super smooth, great ink with lots of personality.

Sailor Doyou, sepia, a little washed out black, i love it and it cleans my pens from stains.

 

hope it helps !

That's a very nice list for anyone to reference I think.

 

I'm glad we are able to compare the inks I'm specific ways to highlight how one could be the best black ink for a given pen.

 

I'm about to get a nice sailor-gold-nibbed fountain pen and after an initial fill with waterman serenity blue, I wonder what I will go for. I'm thinking that platinum carbon black might be a safer option than kiwa guro out of the carbon inks because sounds like it nib creeps less. Otherwise, other waterproof options would include noodlers black and hod, which I always found too dry and too wet respectively.

 

We shall see! After serenity blue, maybe trials of other safe inks like pilot blue black and pelikan black will precede the pigment trials.

[Mongoosey]

That's a very nice list for anyone to reference I think.

 

I'm glad we are able to compare the inks I'm specific ways to highlight how one could be the best black ink for a given pen.

 

I'm about to get a nice sailor-gold-nibbed fountain pen and after an initial fill with waterman serenity blue, I wonder what I will go for. I'm thinking that platinum carbon black might be a safer option than kiwa guro out of the carbon inks because sounds like it nib creeps less. Otherwise, other waterproof options would include noodlers black and hod, which I always found too dry and too wet respectively.

 

We shall see! After serenity blue, maybe trials of other safe inks like pilot blue black and pelikan black will precede the pigment trials.

 

I've found Kiwa-Guro doesn't nib creep all that much. In fact, I've never had a problem with it nib creeping except with my Lamy Vista Steel EF I am using now, but that individual nib does indeed creep with everything lol.

 

IMO, Kiwa-Guro is a significantly safer option. IME, Platinum Carbon Black is like an Iron Gall in terms of required maintenance, while Kiwa-Guro is much friendlier.

 

I just recently tested out Kiwa-Guro again in my Lamy Vista, after using Platinum Carbon Black in it for some time, and Kiwa-Guro had flow issues : ( I wonder if Carbon Black leaves a little bit behind in the crevices of a feed. I know Noodler's inks do : (

 

I returned to using Platinum Carbon Black in my Vista and it works great since the ink is so wet, but it doesn't have the same performance on really cheap paper like Kiwa-Guro does. What does that mean for me?...

 

...If Kiwa-Guro worked well in my Lamy Safari EF, I wouldn't consider getting another fountain pen, but since it doesn't I find myself wishing I had a pen that worked well with Kiwa-Guro so I wouldn't have to worry about carrying an extra ballpoint or gel pen on me for really cheap paper Carbon Black doesn't do well on. Yes there's Noodler's Black, but I find I avoid that ink because I don't like the feel of it.

[Intensity]

I've tried Carbon Black a couple times and found that it coats surfaces and feels kind of ...oily for the lack of better word. It was more work to clean out as a result. So I wouldn't be surprised if it does coat the feed and is left in various crevices to affect flow of a different ink used afterwards. I would do a thorough cleaning after Platinum Carbon Black, with a pen flush soak or at least a dot of Dawn dish soap mixed with water.

[A Smug Dill]

I've found Kiwa-Guro doesn't nib creep all that much. In fact, I've never had a problem with it nib creeping except with my Lamy Vista Steel EF I am using now, but that individual nib does indeed creep with everything lol.

 

My experience with a variety of inks is that nib creep and/or nib crud is a result of ineffective cap sealing — which I attribute to either inferior overall quality of the pen or user (i.e. my) error, but not the ink — and not the given ink. In a way, I'm glad there are inks that will tell me if a particular pen, however much I may happen to like it for its other aspects, has a cap sealing ineffectiveness problem; and if I was looking for the perfect black (or any other colour) ink, I wouldn't be docking points from an ink because it highlights the imperfections in other things (which may include my handwriting technique), almost as if in contrast.

 

So I wouldn't be surprised if it does coat the feed and is left in various crevices to affect flow of a different ink used afterwards. I would do a thorough cleaning after Platinum Carbon Black, with a pen flush soak or at least a dot of Dawn dish soap mixed with water.

 

 

A soak and cleaning cycle in an ultrasonic cleaning cycle is always advisable, at least for pen parts that don't have defective and/or already damaged plating that may be shaken loose thus and fall apart or fall off.

[MuddyWaters]

 

My experience with a variety of inks is that nib creep and/or nib crud is a result of ineffective cap sealing which I attribute to either inferior overall quality of the pen or user (i.e. my) error, but not the ink and not the given ink. In a way, I'm glad there are inks that will tell me if a particular pen, however much I may happen to like it for its other aspects, has a cap sealing ineffectiveness problem; and if I was looking for the perfect black (or any other colour) ink, I wouldn't be docking points from an ink because it highlights the imperfections in other things (which may include my handwriting technique), almost as if in contrast.

 

 

 

A soak and cleaning cycle in an ultrasonic cleaning cycle is always advisable, at least for pen parts that don't have defective and/or already damaged plating that may be shaken loose thus and fall apart or fall off.

I'm pretty sure that with the same pen (Lamy 2000), some inks were creeping a lot more than other. The kiwa guro would basically have the nib covered in a black film of pigment whereas most of my other dye inks would not do that, except for maybe Iro tsuki-yo. I wonder if it is due to the high oil/surfactant content of the inks.

[MuddyWaters]

 

I've found Kiwa-Guro doesn't nib creep all that much. In fact, I've never had a problem with it nib creeping except with my Lamy Vista Steel EF I am using now, but that individual nib does indeed creep with everything lol.

 

IMO, Kiwa-Guro is a significantly safer option. IME, Platinum Carbon Black is like an Iron Gall in terms of required maintenance, while Kiwa-Guro is much friendlier.

 

I just recently tested out Kiwa-Guro again in my Lamy Vista, after using Platinum Carbon Black in it for some time, and Kiwa-Guro had flow issues : ( I wonder if Carbon Black leaves a little bit behind in the crevices of a feed. I know Noodler's inks do : (

 

I returned to using Platinum Carbon Black in my Vista and it works great since the ink is so wet, but it doesn't have the same performance on really cheap paper like Kiwa-Guro does. What does that mean for me?...

 

...If Kiwa-Guro worked well in my Lamy Safari EF, I wouldn't consider getting another fountain pen, but since it doesn't I find myself wishing I had a pen that worked well with Kiwa-Guro so I wouldn't have to worry about carrying an extra ballpoint or gel pen on me for really cheap paper Carbon Black doesn't do well on. Yes there's Noodler's Black, but I find I avoid that ink because I don't like the feel of it.

By poor flow with kg, what do you mean? The ink looks unsaturated on the page?

[A Smug Dill]

I'm pretty sure that with the same pen (Lamy 2000), some inks were creeping a lot more than other.

 

 

Yes, just as some inks are more apt to form nib crud than others. However, if you put (say) Monteverde Fireopal into a pen with an effective cap, such as a Platinum #3776 Century which is the gold standard for sealing against ink evaporation, in all likelihood you'll get no nib crud at all, even if you leave the pen capped and untouched for six weeks. The same goes for nib creep. Therefore, in my view, if I see any nib crud or nib creep, I see the undesirable phenomenon as indicative of a shortcoming of the pen and not of the ink.

[essayfaire]

I'm pretty sure that with the same pen (Lamy 2000), some inks were creeping a lot more than other. The kiwa guro would basically have the nib covered in a black film of pigment whereas most of my other dye inks would not do that, except for maybe Iro tsuki-yo. I wonder if it is due to the high oil/surfactant content of the inks.

I have never had a problem with tsuky-yo and I have used it in multiple pens/nibs. None of mine is broader than about .5, however.

[MuddyWaters]

 

 

Yes, just as some inks are more apt to form nib crud than others. However, if you put (say) Monteverde Fireopal into a pen with an effective cap, such as a Platinum #3776 Century which is the gold standard for sealing against ink evaporation, in all likelihood you'll get no nib crud at all, even if you leave the pen capped and untouched for six weeks. The same goes for nib creep. Therefore, in my view, if I see any nib crud or nib creep, I see the undesirable phenomenon as indicative of a shortcoming of the pen and not of the ink.

I see what you mean. Well, given that pens are more expensive than inks, I prefer to switch out the ink rather than the pen if I can.

 

Though I realize, ink choice can be quite grueling too...

[Intensity]

A soak and cleaning cycle in an ultrasonic cleaning cycle is always advisable, at least for pen parts that don't have defective and/or already damaged plating that may be shaken loose thus and fall apart or fall off.

 

I'm reluctant to use an ultrasonic cleaner for most of my pens, in case there are some glued parts that separate, or some other undesirable effects. If I had more budget pens, I would, but not otherwise. And then I would need to re-lubricate after every cleaning, which also requires taking pens and / or converters apart. I usually prefer inks that come off with nothing more than a soak with a good pen flush.

 

Personally, I really like the J. Herbin pen flush. It's performed better than my home-made ammonia flush, and someone had done a comparison of different pen flushes--it did well in that test too.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Intensity

[Mongoosey]

By poor flow with kg, what do you mean? The ink looks unsaturated on the page?

 

I had more problems with the Surface Tension of Kiwa-Guro. In other words, the ink wouldn't travel down the feed as easily and the flow would gradually dry up after an A4 page of writing.

 

I cleaned it out with dish soap and water, but it didn't improve. I've had that problem with the Lamy Vista and Kiwa-Guro before, but this was more pronounced.

 

I tried Noodler's Black after and it flowed OK, but not as wet as before and the line was finer and it felt like the nib had a narrower sweet spot.

 

So Carbon Black, IMO, and IME, is high maintenance in a way. I love the ink, and in fact it's so wet flowing that I don't have problems using it in my Lamy Vista with regular maintenance, but when I switch to other inks that aren't as wet, that's when the high maintenance for it really shows, if you know what I mean.

 

_______//_______

 

If you're having nib creep with Kiwa-Guro, it might be just that individual pen or nib even.

 

When I've used Kiwa-Guro with a PenBBS 309-Goulet nib combo, Franklin-Christoph, Ranga's with Jowos, and others, and I never had nib creep, save for this one Lamy Steel EF nib I have right now lol.

 

So if you get a new pen, you won't necessarily experience nib creep with it using Kiwa-Guro, and in fact IME I'd say it's a low probability.

 

 

I'm reluctant to use an ultrasonic cleaner for most of my pens, in case there are some glued parts that separate, or some other undesirable effects. If I had more budget pens, I would, but not otherwise. And then I would need to re-lubricate after every cleaning, which also requires taking pens and / or converters apart. I usually prefer inks that come off with nothing more than a soak with a good pen flush.

 

Personally, I really like the J. Herbin pen flush. It's performed better than my home-made ammonia flush, and someone had done a comparison of different pen flushes--it did well in that test too.

 

Good to know about the Pen Flush, especially the J. Herbin : )

[Intensity]

It's called J. Herbin "Nettoyant Pour Stylo", in French. Here's a comparison of a few different substances vs. J. Herbin cleaner someone had done, including trying to remove Platinum Carbon Black and Sailor Kiwa-Guro :

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/206600-new-from-jherbin-cleaning-solution-for-fountain-pen/?p=2161344

Edited July 12, 2020 by Intensity

[Honeybadgers]

Noodler's bulletproof black behaved very well when I used it. Almost wrote like a rollerball. Also X-Feather is extremely resistant to feathering but people say it dries very slowly.

 

Slow is an understatement. It's designed specifically for uncoated paper, so using it on rhodia and complaining about smearing would be like whining about the results of using watercolor on bedsheets.

 

It's very very good at what it does, but I do need a little more versatility than X feather offers since I write on a variety of papers. 4001 black just doesn't seem to be beat-able.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Honeybadgers

[Honeybadgers]

 

 

Yes, just as some inks are more apt to form nib crud than others. However, if you put (say) Monteverde Fireopal into a pen with an effective cap, such as a Platinum #3776 Century which is the gold standard for sealing against ink evaporation, in all likelihood you'll get no nib crud at all, even if you leave the pen capped and untouched for six weeks. The same goes for nib creep. Therefore, in my view, if I see any nib crud or nib creep, I see the undesirable phenomenon as indicative of a shortcoming of the pen and not of the ink.

 

Weirdly, I've seen a huge snot bubble of fire opal (it's the ink I use every single fall, that silvery sheen is just amazing) in a 3776 after a week without use. But it got left in my car, nib up. I'm guessing the temperature had something to do with it.

 

Sure did surprise me though.

[MuddyWaters]

I'm hesitant to put a carbon ink in my soon-to-come cross pen, so I was thinking what other inks are available and have some waterproofness while being available in large quantities:

 

-pelikan brilliant black 1L -somewhat waterproof, easy to clean, but not lubricated so I would have to test with the nib when pen gets here

 

-pilot black, 350ml -somewhat waterproof also, but the black is meh and gray. I often find these pilot inks too lubricated

 

-heart of darkness, 135ml -definitely waterproof but very lubricated and not sure of its safety

 

-noodlers black, 80ml -to my eyes this was a nice shade of black with brilliance. The lack of lubrication is like pelikan black. This may be one of the candidates

 

-jh Herbin perle noire, 500ml, anniversary edition bottle - I haven't tried this ink in a long time. It didn't leave a huge impression on me at the time but I know it is less lubricated than the pilot black. I seem to remember it being like pelikan black but with maybe a bit more lubrication.

 

When the pen comes I will get samples of noodlers and Herbin again to compare with pelikan black. The advantage of pelikan black is that it is my work ink: cheap, doesn't feather, dries fast and is pretty well saturated as a black.

[bayindirh]

I'm hesitant to put a carbon ink in my soon-to-come cross pen, so I was thinking what other inks are available and have some waterproofness while being available in large quantities:

 

-pelikan brilliant black 1L -somewhat waterproof, easy to clean, but not lubricated so I would have to test with the nib when pen gets here

 

-pilot black, 350ml -somewhat waterproof also, but the black is meh and gray. I often find these pilot inks too lubricated

 

-heart of darkness, 135ml -definitely waterproof but very lubricated and not sure of its safety

 

-noodlers black, 80ml -to my eyes this was a nice shade of black with brilliance. The lack of lubrication is like pelikan black. This may be one of the candidates

 

-jh Herbin perle noire, 500ml, anniversary edition bottle - I haven't tried this ink in a long time. It didn't leave a huge impression on me at the time but I know it is less lubricated than the pilot black. I seem to remember it being like pelikan black but with maybe a bit more lubrication.

 

When the pen comes I will get samples of noodlers and Herbin again to compare with pelikan black. The advantage of pelikan black is that it is my work ink: cheap, doesn't feather, dries fast and is pretty well saturated as a black.

Maybe you should add a Lamy Black sample to the list. pH neutral, flows well, has some water resistance, doesn't stain and really dark on a wet nib and shades well in a normal-flowing one.

[Mongoosey]

Deleted Post

Edited July 21, 2020 by Mongoosey