From Penholder To Fountain Pen... Which Nib?!

[AAS98]

Good evening!

 

I'm a fountainpen lover. However, I'm seldom satisfied (I feel "heavy" while writing) and my writing can look very confused and messy according to the "instrument" (= pencil, roller, fountain pen with F nib, etc).

 

I discovered two months ago the pleasure of writing with a pen holder...! The nib is so thin, it is a real pleasure. My writing remains clear and elegant, it is just perfect...

 

So perfect that I would like to transport this sensation everywhere with me, and not only at home with my ink bottle!!

 

So I searched if I could find a very very fine nib for my Waterman hemisphere (which has currently a F nib) but reading the comments I see that the Waterman EF nib isn't excessively fine anyway... So I started searching a bit and found this: https://www.rotring.com/fr/stylo-plumes-calligraphiques/9-artpen-4006856250213.html#/largeur_de_la_mine-pointe_extra_fine

 

I definitely prefer pens with a metal body, but I'm afraid I can't spend much money on this little extra fine nib "folie"...

 

My little preoccupation is also that the nib I currently use with my penholder can't be used on every kind of paper - I noticed that on some papers the nib "scratched" it and then... the ink was doing a big mess...!

So I'm also looking for a pen I can write with wherever I am (so fountain pen) on whichever paper (during lessons, etc, so a pen I could actually write fastly with without harming the paper)!

 

Please forgive my frenchy english ^^

 

Thanks for any answer!

 

=)

 

[amberleadavis]

Have you looked at some of the chinese pens - the nibs can be quite fine and for the price they can be quite a buy. Look in the Far Eat Forum.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/forum/132-china-korea-and-others-far-east-asia/

[sidthecat]

If you’re trying to improve your writing experience, you might want to try something like a ringtop or vest pen. They’re usually small and light, and if there’s enough room in the cap, you might be able to slip a dip nib into them.

[Honeybadgers]

I'd point you towards a faber castell loom in extra fine (about $40 USD but incredibly well made). EF fountain pens should not be scratchy, due to the tipping material.

 

If cost is important, I'd highly, HIGHLY recommend the wing sung 601 (not the 601A) since it has a very fine, smooth nib, holds a gallon of ink, a nice slip cap, and I can confirm they are monumentally durable and quite comfortable. about $12 USD.

 

A pilot metropolitan F nib is a great choice too. about $10 USD.

 

A platinum plaisir can be had with an F nib for about $10 USD, and you can swap on the EF nib from a preppy 0.2 for another $5.

 

The rotring artpen is really, really nice for what it costs, but you can't very well fit it in a pocket if needed. It's a sketching pen.

 

Another good brand that I've been surprised by is Knox makes some fountain pens, they can be hard to find, but are sold by the birmingham ink company in a huge variety of sizes. All cost under $20 and most are well made from solid metal.

 

If the pen came from japan, it can be reasonably assumed the nib will be one step finer than a western nib. So a japanese F = western EF. Japanese EF = western XXF.

 

If this is one of your first forays into FP's, I recommend avoiding vintage pens unless purchased from a well known restorer. For less expensive stuff, I recommend Nathaniel Cerf at Thepenmarket. I bought my first gold nib pens from him and have since bought many more from him.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[AAS98]

Thank you very much for all your replies!

 

I must say I'm a little lot in the brands and especially asiatic ones... !!

I think I can go until 40-50€.

 

@Honeybadgers, thanks for all these indications!! Do you think the rotring artpen can still be used to write? (although it's true that it would be a little difficult to put it in my pocket... But in my bag for lessons maybe I can manage x) ) I'm interested by this pen because I guess is is the closest to a penholder's use&result but maybe I have a false idea!!

(Actually I simply thought... "A penholder I can carry and refill!! Woaow!" ^^^^

 

I went to see the Knox pens page, and I like their design very much, though as it is a european brand (as far as I understood? Au secours!) do you know if their extra fine nibs are extra fine for real? (same as I explained for the Waterman EF in my first msg... Because if I can spend from 20 to 50€, still I wanna be sure to buy something significantly thinner than the Waterman I already have, otherwise... lost money&time... :} )

 

Sorry for all these "beginner" questions ^^

 

To spice the thing: I also would like to be able to refill the pen at least with a converter (so from bottle) (ecological exigence!)

 

In any case THANK YOU VERY MUCH also for the answers you posted already =)

[AAS98]

(I meant I was a little loSt in all the asiatic brands... ^^)

[AAS98]

Just found this that may be interesting https://prestigify.com/products/flexy-nib-calligraphy-fountain-pen

 

Seems it is a different kind of nib, closer to the penholder's ones... are there different types of nib appart from their "size" (m, f, ef etc)...?

[BaronWulfraed]

In quick testing my rotRing ArtPen sketch set produced lines of 0.2mm and 0.3mm (EF and F) as measured by an Edmund 6X comparator.

 

0.2mm is the same width I measured from a Pilot Vanishing Point with an F nib unit. For comparison, I obtained:

0.2mm F, 0.4mm M, 0.6/0.4mm B, and 0.6/0.2mm Stub from my four VP nib units (the dual results are vertical versus transverse strokes).

 

I also measured 0.2mm from a Platinum "Carbon" desk pen in EF, 0.3mm in F; don't have a measurement for a Platinum PTL5000(a) Balance EF, but the M came in at 0.3mm. At the current moment, my inked set are all on the large side (Platinum 3776Century in double-Broad, Pelikan M6xx in OBB, Noodlers Neponset; the Esterbrook LJ is the only one with a "medium").

[AAS98]

Ok, infinite thanks!!

 

And I read that many many people had ink leak problems with the rotring artpen... May I ask what is your own exprerience about that?

[Honeybadgers]

Just found this that may be interesting https://prestigify.com/products/flexy-nib-calligraphy-fountain-pen

 

Seems it is a different kind of nib, closer to the penholder's ones... are there different types of nib appart from their "size" (m, f, ef etc)...?

 

 

Avoid that. it's a scam. Someone stuck a zebra G ($0.25) into a jinhao ($1.99)

 

The artpen is more of a drawing pen. yes, it'll write exactly the same as any other fountain pen, but it's just not a very practical tool. It's a good tool if you plan on primarily sketching or if it's your third or fourth pen, supplementing a good everyday writer.

 

The knox pens are pretty darn extra fine. They also use a standard #5 or #6 nib that can be easily swapped out with another brand for about 10 euro.

 

If you can swing 40-50 euro, your world just got a lot bigger.

 

 

I still highly recommend the loom. It has a metal barrel and section, giving it some nice weight, but the cap is a featherlight plastic (but still durable) piece so it can be posted without unbalancing the pen. FC nibs are tuned fantastically.

 

FPnibs.com is located in spain, so I don't know what shipping to france would be like from him, but they sell TWSBI at a good price. TWSBI pens are all piston or vacuum fillers with cavernous ink capacity, and the 580 is a large, well made pen, around 45 euro

 

https://www.fpnibs.com/clear/605-11226-twsbi-diamond-580-clear-ef-tip.html#/

 

I also still quite like the platinum plaisir and pilot metropolitan. Both with F nibs will be very fine (0.3mm) and very consistent. the metro can have the nibs swapped out for finer nibs too, the plaisir can get an EF from a preppy 0.2 for another $5 US, but that pen needs a converter, which is another $5. The pilot metro can swap nibs with an EF pilot kakuno, which is about $10, but comes with a converter. Both pens are metal with plastic sections.

 

 

If you can save up another 15 euro, you can get a platinum 3776 with a soft fine, I speak passable enough french to find one on france's Amazon. That is a soft fine, so you will get some softness, a little line variation, and a very thin (japanese fine = western EF or thinner) line. It's plastic, but very well made, with an inner cap that keeps the pen from drying out for well over a year. It's also one of the least expensive gold nib pens out there.

 

https://www.amazon.fr/Platinum-3776-si%C3%A8cle-Chartres-Bleu-Pointe/dp/B00KYN7UJW/ref=pd_sbs_229_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00KYN7UJW&pd_rd_r=4695f511-eb6f-11e8-8e9d-dde34b3ccda1&pd_rd_w=7ArYk&pd_rd_wg=sWLmC&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=A1X6FK5RDHNB96&pf_rd_p=5d361e0c-9e85-4b01-8261-3ff932bec9c8&pf_rd_r=2MVVC9Q1PSDW8GBM88BT&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=2MVVC9Q1PSDW8GBM88BT

[BaronWulfraed]

Ok, infinite thanks!!

 

And I read that many many people had ink leak problems with the rotring artpen... May I ask what is your own exprerience about that?

 

Haven't done enough with it to know. The ArtPens are... in an Art Bag with colored pencils, pastels, maybe water colors (you do NOT want to see my art supply cabinet -- I've got oil paints, acrylic paints, at least 6 sets of water colors*, tech pens, air brushes [including the infamous Paasche AB Turbo], opaque projector, etc.)

 

 

* In a previous life I used to have an average of 2 TDY business trips per year to the UK... I tended to buy a new box of water colors and/or colored pencils quite often.

Edited November 19, 2018 by BaronWulfraed

[AAS98]

Hey all! Thank you so so much for all your replies!! I'm gonna have a look at all these pens <3

 

Though, I'm still exploring the world of the fountain pen world (and vocabulary!!) and I realised that some pens with a kinda penholder nib existed...! I explain better. What I crave with the penholder is that I can write super thin, with a line variation though, and... without puting almost any pressure... so that I have the contact with the paper but not the feeling to struggle pushing to write! I've been reading the (fantastic) reviews of the waterman 54 but it seems to be already a "vintage" pen...

(And anyway if it goes beyond 100 it's gonna be complicated.......)

(And I'm sure it does...)

 

Sorry to bother with additionnal explainations but I'm myself discovering what I'm instinctively looking for...!!

[Honeybadgers]

You don't really want one of those pens yet. The noodlers ahab can do it without much issue (just take a zebra G nib and squeeze the base of the nib in some pliers and the two will fit together with minimal adjustment) but if you want a dip nib, get a dip nib for now. The fancier stuff can come later. Trying right now is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

[AAS98]

Ok, thank you very much!!

(I come from a dip nib though... that's why. However I understand it must be difficult to control, although I'm looking for a thin elegant hyper-reactive pen rather than a calligraphy object... so nothing very delicate ^^)

Thank you for all the advices!! So it's possible to change the nib of a noodler ahab... didn't know that!!

[AAS98]

(Have the feeling all this story is gonna end up with a noodler ahab and a zebra comic G nib...! ^^

 

Feel like I'm trying to find the right magic wand like in "Harry Potter" x)))) ^^ )

[Honeybadgers]

Ok, thank you very much!!

(I come from a dip nib though... that's why. However I understand it must be difficult to control, although I'm looking for a thin elegant hyper-reactive pen rather than a calligraphy object... so nothing very delicate ^^)

Thank you for all the advices!! So it's possible to change the nib of a noodler ahab... didn't know that!!

 

It has nothing to do with control, it's the convenience. the dip nibs will constantly have ink feeding them, so they will rust within 1-3 months, requiring regular replacement and routine cleaning of rusty residue from feeds. They can be prone to flow problems. They are NOT good everyday writers, since even a smooth zebra G will be prone to catching on bad paper and the needle-thin, very wet line will bleed and feather like crazy.

 

Again, I have to stress that you do not want a dip-nib pen yet. they're just not practical and you're setting yourself up for failure. I love mine to bits, but were it my second or third pen I'd have HATED it.

 

Pick up a proper everyday pen first that you enjoy. Then get a noodlers ahab, heat set the feed with some boiling water, and use zebra G nibs in it for art and calligraphy. If you want to save your pennies for a real experience, spend 200 euro on a custom 14k JoWo full flex XXXF nib from pablo at fpnibs.com and have it fit into a TWSBI vac700R. That will give you a real dip nib fountain pen with none of the headache.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[AAS98]

Ok, I understand better. Thank you very very much!

 

Let's imagine I get a noodler ahab and put a zebra nib on it to try a new experience. Will I be able to replace the initial ahab nib after? Or will everything be... damaged? Or may I change nibs as often as I want without damaging the pen?

 

And does a nib rust even if used everyday?

 

Are there some superflex nibs which are smoother than the zebra G?

 

Sorry for all these questions, but tis really fascinating!! =D

(And I'm a real noob x))

[Honeybadgers]

yes, the nib will rust, and it'll rust relatively quickly. But you can swap between a normal nib and the zebra nib in the ahab, but you will either need to buy a second feed or re-heat-set the original ebonite feed every time you do so, since in making the dip nib work you have to bend the ebonite pretty far (this would be an enormous hassle)

 

There will be no dip nib option for a fountain pen smoother than a zebra G.

 

Being really new, again, I want to point you away from this idea for at least a while longer. it's a pen that needs a LOT of fiddling with. It's much more of a toy than a practical object.

 

here's a zebra nib in a konrad (not recommended, the konrad has a cap liner that doesn't play nice)

 

 

The custom 200 euro flex nib TWSBI I mentioned

 

 

 

 

Neither of these pens are pleasant to use in an everyday setting.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[AAS98]

Ok.... I start to get how terribly complicated it would be XD ^^

 

Thank you very much.

 

Last question though, in case I would reach 200€ ne day. You write "If you want to save your pennies for a real experience, spend 200 euro on a custom 14k JoWo full flex XXXF nib from pablo at fpnibs.com and have it fit into a TWSBI vac700R. That will give you a real dip nib fountain pen with none of the headache" (which sounds very attractive after the hell descriptions above with the ahab+zebra G)

 

But then "Neither of these pens are pleasant to use in an everyday setting." (so I suppose it includes the 14k JoWO full flex XXXF + TWSBI vac700R). My question is simple and I hope (for you at least, sorry sorry sorry x) ) it will be the last one:

 

Why? ^^ Why isn't it pleasant for an everyday seeting? Is it impossible to write fastly even a very very good "real" dip nib fountain pen, for ex.? Or does it remain scratchy?

 

Thanks !!

[AAS98]

Ok...

 

IT'S DEFINITELY GONNA BE A PLATINUM CENTURY 3776 SF

Just saw a review and it is the most convincing ever in my opinion!!

 

 

Thank you so so much for all your advices!! =))) Couldn't have learned all this by myself and never would have found the pen on my own!!