Parker 45 Arrow.

[PaulS]

the middle of these three arrived very recently as part of a job lot of f.ps. and was, what I assumed without checking, to be just a normal P45. It was only after cleaning and when I went to put it with the other thirty odd 45s, that I realized it didn't match. It's shorter, has a cap that uses a threaded connection, lacks a clutch ring, and the barrel doesn't show the degree of taper of the standard P45.

Surprising how easy it is to look at something in isolation and not realize the difference - the 45 clip is a very domineering feature, and tends to overshadow other aspects of similar pens. This one carries the halo and was made in England, though I can't see a date code.

Having looked at Tony Fishier's Parker website I'm assuming this is a 45 Arrow - though the odd thing is that unless I'm losing the plot this is the first example I've seen - is it an uncommon pen in the U.K. does anyone know - and anyone care to guess at a date?

 

It appears to be that the difference in overall length is due mainly to a much shorter section length compared to the normal P45, otherwise the nib etc. is identical.

[baz666]

PaulS, it's a new Slimfold. P45 style. Google brings up some good images.

 

 

http://parkercollector.com/slimfold.html

 

http://pencollect.blogspot.com/2008/03/not-parker-45.html

Edited October 30, 2018 by baz666

[PaulS]

thanks very much baz - I had no idea, and was miles away from the right answer. I know the open nib version of the Parker 17, from the very early '60s, was reasonably uncommon, although I do have a few of those, but judging by the fact that I have only one example of this new Slimfold Mk. II, then this must be an even more uncommon model.

thanks again.

[hood]

I think they're maybe overlooked rather than uncommon, as people tend to think they're P45s.

[mitto]

Some have gold or chrome disks at the end of barrels. Ma think those are even rarer.

 

Paul, don't you see the shorter cap?

Edited November 1, 2018 by mitto

[hood]

The gold trim models have the gold disc on the end of the barrel, but the chrome trim models are not supposed to have any trim on the end of the barrel. I'm not sure the GT models are particularly less common than the CT models, maybe marginally. I would be really interested to see one with a chrome disc on the barrel.

[mitto]

I have one with chrome disk but not in my reach at the moment.

[mitto]

Edited for being double post.

Edited October 31, 2018 by mitto

[PaulS]

Khan - yes, I've now realized this model has a shorter cap, though the clip and cap jewel are identical to the P45. My problem was that I saw what my brain wanted to see, based on the very characteristic clip and jewel - and initially I was looking at the pen in isolation.

However, thanks to the very clever people on FPN I have now been educated, and now that I know what to look for will hopefully start falling over them or not as the case might be. Time was I picked up all the 45s I saw, but ended up with many duplicates so gave quite a few away, and now have only about 35.

Obviously it depends on your hunting ground, but compared to 45s, the apparent paucity of this Slimfold Mk. II - for me - tells me the latter must be a lot thinner on the ground in my back yard.

 

Judging by Hood's comments some of the variations are more attractive, so will now make an effort to find others.

 

thanks again to everyone for helping, and since the subject heading is inaccurate, is it possible for the Mods. to correct for me? thanks.

Edited October 31, 2018 by PaulS

[parkergeo]

Have you evaluated the nib? Previous forum comments have suggested that some New Slimfold pens may have UK-manufactured nibs with a bit more springiness than your average P45.

[PaulS]

yes, have now, and there does seem to be some basis for thinking the Slimfold is very slightly more springy than the 45, but think I'd be happier to assess a few before feeling positive about this comment - is this a reason for thinking the Slimfold nib might be made of a different metal combination perhaps.

Attached is picture showing nibs from the Slimfold and a Flighter 45 - both are indicated on the carrying unit as Fine. Picture also of both nib units removed from hoods - from which it appears that units are identical on both pens despite the obvious length difference of the sections for these pens. Marshall & Oldfield comment that the 45 pierce cutter is metal, but having now cut a States 45 hood open, they appear to be plastic - unless early 45s had metal cutters. Point to remember when unscrewing these nib units from sections is to heat well and/or flush as the ink acts as an adhesive and on my second go I was impatient and snapped the nib holder from the rest of the feed.

 

From the point of view of economics, there was an obvious effort here to use already existing component in the way of nib unit from the 45, which was a very successful pen, transplanted into the New Slimfold.

[mitto]

If by pierce cutter you mean the nipple that goes into the mouth of cartridge/converter, that is part of the collector and, hence, plastic on both P45 and P75.

 

Here you can see. Left to right are P75 collector, P45 US made collector and P45 English made collector.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/monthly_11_2016/post-117288-0-36817300-1478240966.jpg

[mitto]

Paul, the nibs on both P45 (if 14k gold) and new Slimfold are 14k and hence made of same material. The difference in color may be because of difference in degree of cleanliness and/or polish. The P45 also came with 10k gold nibs. And the 10k gold nibs are a bit whitish when compared to the 14k nibs.

[PaulS]

thanks for the pix Khan - very useful. Having read the book comments I quoted, I assumed the implication was that reference to a 'pierce cutter' on 45s did in fact suggest a flanged metal piercing tube to break the seal on cartridges - similar to the metal cutter on a P65. However, having broken into a 45 as I mentioned, this did not appear to be the case, and the piercing tube is plastic as you mention, so this looks to show the book comments are wrong - assuming I'm reading this correctly.

So what did they alloy the gold with to make 10 k nibs, making them a 'bit whitish' - do you know? Under a lens some nibs show better polish/shine than others, so perhaps this may affect reflective qualities - but I try not to give house room to unclean nibs.

Anyway, upshot was that, having dismantled nib units on the New Slimfold and 45, I was surprised they were the same length, but a good wheeze using same unit for both pens and not having to invent something entirely different.

[mitto]

Paul, I don't know as to what they alloy gold with in 10k nibs making them a bit whitish but here is a 14k nib that clearly looks white. Would that be a white gold nib? Has anyone seen such a nib on a P45?

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/monthly_02_2017/post-117288-0-18635100-1488274090.jpg

Edited November 1, 2018 by mitto

[PaulS]

I'm a bit limited on nib knowledge, but have to say that I don't know of any white gold nibs - apparently white gold is frequently not white anyway.

Your nib Khan may be a standard 14 k yellow gold example plated using either Rhodium or Platinum - because white nibs are fashionable it seems, and in those cases plated nibs must still be marked as though they were plain 14 k yellow gold, but this is only my opinion as to why your nib is not yellow.

Parker are known for using Rhodium for plating yellow gold nibs - I've a white nib in a Sonnet marked 18K - 750 plus the pw and pencil in a diamond …………………. 18 k because of its French origin.

Edited November 1, 2018 by PaulS

[Captivelight]

Have a look at this page ... there is a GT with a gold end disk like the one found on the P45 TX although it's not that clear in the photo.

 

http://pencollect.co.uk/newslimfold.htm

[PaulS]

good info - thanks.

[thx1138]

I think the reduction in the gold content usually related to the world gold price. When The price is really high then the cheaper pens get octanium or stainless nibs (or lower gold content nibs).