Kaco Edge - Brushed Makrolon

[truthpil]

It actually sounds more like a design flaw than a material failure to me. I remotely remeber similar issues happened to Lamy 2000 section/body threads when it was first out and then Lamy somehow fixed it.

 

The more I look over the photos, the more I think this may be the case. It seems like the metal parts inside the cap are putting too much stress on the plastic and causing it to pull apart. I always felt nervous pushing the section in far enough to get the locking mechanism to click because it feels so tight, so maybe that's the issue. At any rate, I sure hope they fix it because I really enjoy writing with the Edge!

[pkolenda]

I liked this pen at first - however the quality did not hold up. Nib and nib section are good. The body was fine but the cap did not hold up. After about 3 weeks it developed a crack in the cap. A couple weeks after that - a second crack. It still looks good - in my trash. Unfortunate given the quality parts.

[truthpil]

I liked this pen at first - however the quality did not hold up. Nib and nib section are good. The body was fine but the cap did not hold up. After about 3 weeks it developed a crack in the cap. A couple weeks after that - a second crack. It still looks good - in my trash. Unfortunate given the quality parts.

Same here and a real shame given the otherwise great nib and solid body. I really do hope Kaco gets their act together on this one and fixes the cap design, but lately they seem more interested in making more expensive pens that probably turn a better profit.

[Honeybadgers]

 

That's not an issue here. "Makrolon" is TMed and Kaco bought them from the same German company as Lamy does. So, the quality of the material should be the same as L2K and in the rare case that Kaco got a bad batch, they should be able to get replacement fairly easily and almost for free.

 

Are we sure it's the same material from the same manufacturer? Brushed fiberglass rod stock ain't exactly hard to make.

 

Also, it could be an issue of the tooling being a bit to broad and taking too much out from the inner cap liner. My point still stands, they're probably not going to drop the dime on replacing tooling (which can cost a hell of a lot more than ten batches of materials) until it wears out.

[Holon]

(...) a real shame given the otherwise great nib and solid body. I really do hope Kaco gets their act together on this one and fixes the cap design,(...)

 

I completely agree. My two Edges are still uncracked, so I still have some hope...

[Holon]

 

Are we sure it's the same material from the same manufacturer? Brushed fiberglass rod stock ain't exactly hard to make.

 

 

 

Makrolon is a brand name for a polycarbonate, it should be the same material, or Kaco is just lying about it (I don't think so).

But I think Makrolon is usually not reinforced with fiberglass and maybe Kaco doesn't use fiberglass for their pens. Someone with a cracked cap can try it by scraping some of the material off with a sharp knife. Usually you can hear if there is any glasfibre in it.

[woleizihan]

Are we sure it's the same material from the same manufacturer? Brushed fiberglass rod stock ain't exactly hard to make.

 

Also, it could be an issue of the tooling being a bit to broad and taking too much out from the inner cap liner. My point still stands, they're probably not going to drop the dime on replacing tooling (which can cost a hell of a lot more than ten batches of materials) until it wears out.

As I said, it's TMed. You can make whatever brushed fiberglass rod but you don't call it makrolon. Kaco explicitly says they buy from the manufacture. And I still think it's a design flaw. The section of Lamy 2000 used to crack a lot until Lamy changed the design to reinforce it and it still stands as the weak point.

 

I'm not sure what kind of tooling are you talking about. Kaco has been producing all kinds of pens in all sorts of dimensions and finishes so it's hard to imagine that's an issue. But I also don't think they are going to fix it any time soon because there's probably not enough motivation financially. If they are going to fix it, it's more like a face saving act as opposed to money earning one.

[woleizihan]

To be fair, I'm disappointed by the pen but I'm not bashing Kaco or anything. If Lamy couldn't get it right for a $100+ pen for the first time, it's not particular a shame if Kaco also couldn't do that on a $10 pen. Makrolon is not an easy material to work with and is also not particularly strong. Good design needs a lot of experience, trials and errors. But, Kaco should just fix this or at least try to fix it. When is it happening? No idea. But at the mean time, I kind of just look at the #5 nib and think as if I paid $10 for it. Not a superb purchase but makes me feel much better.

Edited February 18, 2019 by woleizihan

[truthpil]

But at the mean time, I kind of just look at the #5 nib and think as if I paid $10 for it. Not a superb purchase but makes me feel much better.

Yeah, even if the pen busts it's still a good deal for the nib. I may still buy another to have a Schmidt medium nib unit in my arsenal.

[Honeybadgers]

As I said, it's TMed. You can make whatever brushed fiberglass rod but you don't call it makrolon. Kaco explicitly says they buy from the manufacture. And I still think it's a design flaw. The section of Lamy 2000 used to crack a lot until Lamy changed the design to reinforce it and it still stands as the weak point.

 

I'm not sure what kind of tooling are you talking about. Kaco has been producing all kinds of pens in all sorts of dimensions and finishes so it's hard to imagine that's an issue. But I also don't think they are going to fix it any time soon because there's probably not enough motivation financially. If they are going to fix it, it's more like a face saving act as opposed to money earning one.

 

You also know that china doesn't exactly care about trademark and copyright law, right?

There's a whole trade war going on over that.

 

Also, is the edge even advertised as being truly makrolon? Because I just seem to see it used as a shorthand for the style of finish.

 

I don't think you've got a very complete picture as to what goes into mass manufacturing infrastructure. The tooling required to blow/injecion mold these (assuming they're just polycarbonate or nylon) is very expensive and wears out relatively quickly. If it's some form of FRP (I thought makrolon was fiberglass reinforced but I could be wrong and I'm not about to take a utility blade to my 2000) then the tooling required to make and/or cut it wear out exponentially faster due to the glass fiber causing increased wear on top of that. So to re-tool the machines would require most companies to at least complete a return on investment for the tooling as long as the problem is not causing one that would cost them more down the road in lost sales or lawsuits (a-la vehicle recalls)

 

If my edge cap completely splits I'll take a knife to it, but the cracks forming very very straight and longitudinal would definitely be indicative of FRP.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[woleizihan]

It is advertised as truly makrolon. Why don't you just google their ad? They quote the TM owner as their partner. If you don't believe that, there's nothing I can do. Many people have also informed you about that above. Why don't you just read more carefully?

 

Also, I understand the mass manufacturing. And I'm asking you what kind of tooling are you talking about. Do you think it's injection molded and then polished or do you think it's just lathed feom rods? In either cases, the tooling is not terriblely expensive. I don't know where you got the impression that they are cery expensive. As far as I know, even the ones directly imported from Germany are not that expensive because many Chinese pen makers have been transparent about the cost of tooling. Both Moonman and Delike had talked a lot about how much the tooling costs. And Hero bought some tooling from Pilot. Not particularly cheap but also not terribly expensive. This is also evident given the price/sales quantity of the pen. Its just simple math. For a $10 pen, assuming they are making $5 on it, they'll have to sell 200k in order to justify $1m tooling. I belive the actual margin is much lower than that, I would say $1-$2 range. So, do you think they didn't do the math before investing in the tooling?

 

It's very likely that Kaco just commissioned the production to factories which have the required tooling. And they are just going to pay for the parts that are actually wearing out.

[taike]

I curious if anyone has a feel for the relative size of Kaco as a producer in the Chinese stationary market. My impression is that they are big but have no real data. If they are going for leadership, then I'd guess they'd be much more sensitive to product defects and want to make things right in some way. Smaller no-brand players may be willing to just move on but if their reputation is important to growing their business, then it could be a different calculation.

[Holon]

 

If it's some form of FRP (I thought makrolon was fiberglass reinforced but I could be wrong and I'm not about to take a utility blade to my 2000)

 

 

I checked it and Makrolon is not reinforced with fiberglass, it's just polycarbonate patended by Bayer (in chemistry usually not the product but the process to produce it is patended). However, the L2K is referred as fiberglass reinforced makrolon, so Lamy adds the glassfibers themselve. And I am pretty sure the Kaco Edge uses only Makrolon, without any glassfibers (please, someone with a broken cap, check it!) I don't think it would make a big differende if it's original or counterfeit makrolon, the main difference for durability is the glassfibers.

 

If my edge cap completely splits I'll take a knife to it, but the cracks forming very very straight and longitudinal would definitely be indicative of FRP.

Or the brushing weakens the material in a straight and longitudinal way, at least at the "brushstrokes" the material is thinner.

But I agree with Honeybadger that the tooling (esp. the modls) or more general the molding process might be the problem. Injection molds are difficult and expensive to design and produce, so maybe Kaco will use them until they wore out. But maybe the molding process is faulty (even slight changes of temperature of the mold and the plastic, pressure or time to settle will affect the strongness of the material).

But that are just guesses, it's impossible to say for sure. Let's just hope Kaco finds the problem and is willing to solve it. OK, and some additional colour options would be nice ;-)

[Honeybadgers]

 

Or the brushing weakens the material in a straight and longitudinal way, at least at the "brushstrokes" the material is thinner.

But I agree with Honeybadger that the tooling (esp. the modls) or more general the molding process might be the problem. Injection molds are difficult and expensive to design and produce, so maybe Kaco will use them until they wore out. But maybe the molding process is faulty (even slight changes of temperature of the mold and the plastic, pressure or time to settle will affect the strongness of the material).

But that are just guesses, it's impossible to say for sure. Let's just hope Kaco finds the problem and is willing to solve it. OK, and some additional colour options would be nice ;-)

 

 

The brushstrokes thinning it out would be possible if the material were just being made outrageously thin, but I think at that point, we'd be dealing with plastic so thin that we could see through it with a bright light. I would wager it's either a failure of glassfiber reinforcement, curing causing it to shrink and buckling in on the stroke lines, or there being some defect in the material or manufacturing temperatures (assuming it's nylon, the nylon pellets) or tooling that causes hairline weaknesses in the caps due to poor fusion of the raw materials, again, making the brushstrokes more akin to seeds for buckling points than actually over-thin material.

 

All said and done, assuming it isn't a major curing issue, the problem could probably be solved with a .1mm increase in cap thickness. But we'd require a complete retooling of the cap machinery since the clip would also need adjustment in placement and materials

 

I also hope Kaco fixes it. Prior to the cracking issue becoming so prevalent, I was prepared to call this the best beginner fountain pen ever.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[Honeybadgers]

I curious if anyone has a feel for the relative size of Kaco as a producer in the Chinese stationary market. My impression is that they are big but have no real data. If they are going for leadership, then I'd guess they'd be much more sensitive to product defects and want to make things right in some way. Smaller no-brand players may be willing to just move on but if their reputation is important to growing their business, then it could be a different calculation.

 

Probably more that the chinese market doesn't have an established brand loyalty yet, there's less of a demand for the QC. Lamy's problems with the 2000 were a huge deal partly because of the premium nature of the pen, but they have a name (and that model itself) with so much pedigree that they HAD to fix it or their name would be ruined. Kaco is still a small name outside of China. If they were well known for their quality, a lapse in such quality would be a huge deal. But being known for value products means that people will just tolerate more in QC failures.

 

I'd wager that Wing Sung would have more to lose from QC failures than Kaco. WS is actually a well know name with history in the country. But the Chinese market is also weirdly disposable, too. The people there are just so used to cheap, poor quality that it's just par for the course to have to replace your "x" every so often. They don't have the frame of reference we do for stuff lasting a long, long time. China's upcoming Middle class has an extremely disposable culture.

[truthpil]

My new Edge came today and the medium nib is just awesome. A perfectly wet and smooth nib! Now let's see if the cap cracks over the next few weeks. I noticed that the cap clicks shut much easier than on my first pen, so maybe that means less tension being put on the cap.

[writerstephen]

I also have an Edge, and I like it quite a bit (though I was skeptical that it was in fact a Schmidt nib given the branding). Just a note on the filling system: Since it didn't come with a converter, and there didn't seem to be any ink-exposed metal parts, I tried to eyedropper-convert it. Bad idea. Although it seemed to be watertight, ink leaked very slowly from the finial. So just a warning.

[migla9]

I also enjoy writing with my Edge EF, but after 3 months of light use and only sitting on a desk, it has also developed 2 cracks. I'll try contacting Bobby at ebay.

[FGMath]

I sadly have to add my name to the long list of unsatisfied customers. Just discovered today that my Kaco Edge cracked too.

[migla9]

Besides the two cracks I had, there is a small chunk now breaking off the edge and the inner sleeve now comes out also. I tried contacting Bobby at eBay, as well as Kaco a few months back, but no response from either.