A Little Surprise From A Sailor Profit Jr. Demonstrator

[Honeybadgers]

I have one of these and can't recommend it enough - spectacular writer, well made, the clear feed is what really sets it apart.

 

Also, as an aside, the body of this pen is interchangeable with sections from the pro gear slim and 1911 standard. The nib/feed are different, but the sections screw right in. So I sometimes throw my 21k zoom nib from my 1911S into it and have a demonstrator 21k.

[bone215]

My 2 cents

 

This is a nice thread. I find the topic of nibs and feedback interesting. I think my expectations of a nib and how it writes with or without feedback must be askew. I think my Aurora Ipsilon M and F nib pens are not scratchy, yet, there seems to be other pen users that think Aurora has a special feedback worth mentioning. My Sailor, Platinum, and Pilot F nibs and M nibs are all capable of writing a thin crisp line, with (for me) acceptable feedback. Nibs vary. People vary.

 

Sometimes it seems like it is language limiting our ability to communicate effectively on this issue and the addition of numbers sometimes can clear things up. F and M were adequate for a long time, but 2019 brings with it the benefit of better and more accurate measuring equipment, so give us the numbers. Maybe they could, as Smugdill suggests, adopt standard metrics.

Thus I wish manufacturers would adopt a measurement system of nib size so that pen users know what to expect.

[TheDutchGuy]

Thus I wish manufacturers would adopt a measurement system of nib size so that pen users know what to expect.

I have a scientific mind and "to measure is to know" is one of my guiding principles. So in principle, I completely agree with you. In practice... not so easy. Example: the manufacturer measures actual dimensions of the nib, especially the tip. Or, alternatively, the manufacturer measures the actual line width. Two problems. First, limited production numbers often imply increased variation. Even with large brands, I sometimes find to two mass-produced F nibs to produce a different line width. Second, someone might read the numbers and think that the line width will be precisely that. Won't work. Put in a dry ink, it will be more narrow. And vice versa. Use absorbent paper, a wider line. Someone might heave a feathery touch, producing a finer line, whereas someone else might press down, producing a wider line. Just imagine the customer feedback... "my line width isn't as promised..."

 

Personally I think Goulet's nib book is useful. It shows you the line width of many different nibs. It's not exact science, but I'd say it's about as close as you can get.

[A Smug Dill]

It's not exact science, but I'd say it's about as close as you can get.

 

 

That's why I have so much respect for the way Platinum articulated what its nib width grade/designations mean. It used to even tell you what the approximate writing distance (in some number of hundreds of metres) is with a particular nib width using one of its standard ink cartridges.

 

Whether the individual user is interested in using the standard ink cartridge Platinum supplies with each pen in the retail package, and whether he/she writes with the nib held at 60° and applies pressure of 50g consistently, is a different matter. Platinum is wise to leave the individual to make any translation (in practical terms of line width and such, and I don't mean from Japanese to English) of the published information to what he/she actually wants to know in advance.

[Caeruleum]

May I ask those who own this beautiful pen a few questions?

The pen uses threads for capping, as far as I can see. Do these threads wear down? I aks because I own a Platinum Cool which is comparable in price and design, but uses a snap cap. That's ok for me. I however don't like the metal threads it uses on the section for the plastic barrel which causes abrasion.

In your second picture I can see ink between the nib and the section. Got this ink there from the inside or by filling the pen?

Sailor's converter does not have the best reputation. How well do they work with the Profit Junior?

Thank you

[A Smug Dill]

I however don't like the metal threads it uses on the section for the plastic barrel which causes abrasion.

Abrasion against what specifically? I was just using my Platinum Balance (which you referred to as Cool) blue demonstrator, and the threads joining the barrel to the section are not something you will touch when writing, or even need touch when filling the pen.

 

In your second picture I can see ink between the nib and the section. Got this ink there from the inside or by filling the pen?

Inside the clear section.

 

Sailor's converter does not have the best reputation.

I don't know why. I have seven or eight inked right now; I've never had a problem with any of my Sailor converters, and I completely disassemble them all the time when cleaning my Sailor pens and changing inks. None has leaked into the pen barrel, none had the threads (between the clear tube and the metal collar) wear out, and none became looser or distended at the mouth.

[Caeruleum]

The plastic barrel screws on to the metal section. I need to remove the barrel to use the converter. The metal threads abrase a small amount of plastic each time.

Thanks, thats good to hear. I'm relieved since I don't like ink which might find a way out of the pen where it shouldn't leave it.

That's great to hear as well. Thank you for sharing your experience on the converter.

[cattar]

caeruleum

For years, I've regularly used several pens including the Platinum Balance/Cool that have metal section threads and resin barrels and seen no abrading of the resin barrels. This is common in pens.

If you're seeing abrading, either you're crossthreading when screwing on the barrel or something else is wrong.

 

For anyone who has the profit junior,

How well does the cap seal, or how long can the pen sit without writing and start up immediately? A day, a week, 2 weeks?

I keep putting this pen in the cart, I know I'd like the nib.

[RoSpectre]

To help prolong thread life, apply a bit of silicone grease (the thicker, jelly-like kind, not silicone oil) to the threads. This will reduce abrasion, especially metal on plastic.

 

I just opened and inked my new Profit Junior Kurogane -- the special edition with black IP trim/nib and translucent black body. Overall impression: cool looking but underwhelming. But, not bad for $30 US or so... (plain demo version is cheaper). Those interested in entry level Sailors, also check out the Sailor "professor"... not sure if it's the proper name, but it's a similar pen, comes in black and a nice burgundy too I think, with gold trim.

 

Profit Junior Kurogane (black) Pros:

-Good size, weight, balance, posts well -- excellent midsize design

-Nice build, material feels good, black trim looks cool, came with converter (converter has black IP metal top, too -- bonus points). The converter is not a double-seal piston... but it seems to be of decent quality.

-Ink flow is good using Iroshizuki ink, medium wetness, and I like the size of the MF line (basically a Japanese fine on good paper, thinner/drier than a Jowo XF for sure.)

Cons:

-Writes scratchy -- and I don't mean feedback. The difference to me is the scratch here is bordering on harsh, it's distracting, and it is inconsistent (e.g., harsher on some strokes than others). So it feels like there are bad edges or shaping going on, not just feedback from a small tip. Alignment looks good, so I don't think it's that. The tip is sorta ball shaped with a small flatish surface near the bottom of it -- I think if you have a smaller hand or lower writing angle you would get a smoother experience as this flat part would be more your writing surface. I have a tall/wide hand so I think I'm missing the "sweet" spot -- holding the pen at a lower angle helps a little bit.

-Cap takes 2 and 1/3 full rotations to remove! Kinda clunky and makes it inconvenient for short note taking, which was my intent for this pen

-Section's a touch short so you'll feel threads... they're not bad though.

 

Overall: A decent entry level pen -- good if you want to try out a Sailor for a low price. This is my only Sailor, but I won't judge the brand by this pen alone. The nib I got is a bit of a letdown, but it's serviceable. To me it's like a Chinese Wing Sung nib -- quite fine, writes well, but just not tuned to be excellent or smooth. Others may luck out and get a better example. Also, my nib is IP coated, which may or may not be part of the issue.

 

Cattar, I can't speak to capped drying time yet, but there is no inner cap or secondary seal beyond the cap threads... so I don't think it's going to be a champ at bag/shelf-life. However, it does take 2 1/3 turns to seal, so that's probably a good sign for air tightness inside the cap... so hard to say.

[cattar]

The professor is a profit junior in opaque red or black.

Sailor nib tipping is footed on the steel as well as on the gold nibs, so there's a small sweet spot and a pencily feedback.
If you're getting scratchy on certain strokes, you're likely rolling the pen or rolling your hand as your write. Most people do, especially when used to rounded nibs.
Staying consistently on the sweet spot makes for a smooth ride.


Still wondering about the cap seal on the profit junior.
The steel-nibbed Sailor procolors, also the same standard/sapporo pen size, have cap liners. I have two and they can sit a couple weeks, not that they usually do, and start writing immediately.

[RoSpectre]

Hm Ill report back on the cap when I've had the pen for a few days

 

Regarding the nib I think I do roll, as obliques work well for me, but in this case I think it's the nib tip. Upon closer inspection I can see the tipping material is crooked; it's welded to the nib at a 15 degree angle. The slit seems straight, but the tip ball is lopsided, so I don't think the grind and polish could be done right. I might be able to reshape it myself... but oddly enough when I deliberately roll this pen it writes better as it compensates for the crooked tip haha.

 

Just bad luck... but Ill keep fiddling keeping the footed shape in mind.

[mauckcg]

Oh wow, i really like that transparent feed. That is really neat.

[cattar]

rospectre

That tipping shape is the footed angle. The tipping is also narrower toward the nib tip and wider toward the feed. That's intentional. All that gives the nib a specific feel. It's smooth yet pencily when you write on the sweet spot.

Consider practicing writing on the sweet spot for a time.

 

Look forward to hearing about the cap seal.

Edited February 6, 2019 by cattar

[A Smug Dill]

Overall: A decent entry level pen -- good if you want to try out a Sailor for a low price. This is my only Sailor, but I won't judge the brand by this pen alone. The nib I got is a bit of a letdown,

The worst Japanese nibs I've used were all on low-priced Sailor models. My two 11-0073 desk pens' EF nibs scratched and tore the coating/surface of the Rhodia 80gsm papers with my normal handwriting style and pressure; I believe the HiAce Neo shares the same type of nib, but the experience has put me off inking the new HiAce Neo pens I have. The 55° Fude de Mannen nibs on the 11-0127-767 and the 10-0212-740 pen models are practically unusable for writing (and I'm not stranger to Fude, or otherwise bent or upturned nibs); the 40° Fude nib on the 11-0127-740 is serviceable. No sub-US$10 Pilot or Platinum pen has given me trouble like that.

 

They're chalk and cheese compared to the Sailor 1911 nibs I have, much less the Naginata nibs.

 

but it's serviceable. To me it's like a Chinese Wing Sung nib -- quite fine, writes well, but just not tuned to be excellent or smooth. Others may luck out and get a better example.

 

The EF and F nibs on my 30+ Wing Sung pens all write passably compared to the Sailor nibs I mentioned.

 

but there is no inner cap or secondary seal beyond the cap threads... so I don't think it's going to be a champ at bag/shelf-life. However, it does take 2 1/3 turns to seal, so that's probably a good sign for air tightness inside the cap...

The Sailor Lecoule also lacks an inner cap, and takes 2¹/₄ turns to uncap. I have three of those pens, and none of them have ever dried on me after being left unused and undisturbed for a month or so. The steel MF nibs on them are not bad, by the way.

Edited February 7, 2019 by A Smug Dill

[RoSpectre]

rospectre

 

That tipping shape is the footed angle. The tipping is also narrower toward the nib tip and wider toward the feed. That's intentional. All that gives the nib a specific feel. It's smooth yet pencily when you write on the sweet spot.

I would never have guessed. I thought footing was all shape and not angle. I'll take another lookey loupe and try to appreciate the design. It has been getting smoother as I scribbled a few pages and used a lighter touch. I like pencil feedback if it's consistent so we'll see if it gets there.

[minddance]

I would never have guessed. I thought footing was all shape and not angle. I'll take another lookey loupe and try to appreciate the design. It has been getting smoother as I scribbled a few pages and used a lighter touch. I like pencil feedback if it's consistent so we'll see if it gets there.

 

Yes, this faceted nib is felt more prominently in the Medium and Broad widths. Although in MF, if one rolls the pen, it can also be felt slightly. The Fine nib could be a smoother ride if one enjoys rolling pens.

 

The edges of the facets and the different facets are to be explored for producing different line width. They also act like road markings to tell the writer if the pen is rolled. Very unique and advantageous to producing precise lines and variations in width.

[Honeybadgers]

caeruleum

For years, I've regularly used several pens including the Platinum Balance/Cool that have metal section threads and resin barrels and seen no abrading of the resin barrels. This is common in pens.

If you're seeing abrading, either you're crossthreading when screwing on the barrel or something else is wrong.

 

For anyone who has the profit junior,

How well does the cap seal, or how long can the pen sit without writing and start up immediately? A day, a week, 2 weeks?

I keep putting this pen in the cart, I know I'd like the nib.

 

The cap seal is superb. I've had one inked for six months and it routinely went a month without use and it has never, ever failed to start instantly. No cap liner doesn't mean a pen will dry out, as long as the thread machining is precise (and sailor never fails to deliver there) as well as minimizing the volume of air inside the cap, again, not a problem with this pen.

 

I've heard similar stories about the hiace neo to dill. that said, the MF on my Jr demonstrator is every bit as perfect as their 14k/21k MF offerings. absolutely perfect, I adore that "super sharp 2B pencil" feel of the nib gripping the page without biting it. Sailor and pilot nib tuning reminds me of a well tuned sports car suspension. You feel the road, but it doesn't beat you to death. Some people prefer the smoothness of a rolls royce, but I'll go for tactile feedback and precision.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[RoSpectre]

Yes, this faceted nib is felt more prominently in the Medium and Broad widths. Although in MF, if one rolls the pen, it can also be felt slightly. The Fine nib could be a smoother ride if one enjoys rolling pens.

 

The edges of the facets and the different facets are to be explored for producing different line width. They also act like road markings to tell the writer if the pen is rolled. Very unique and advantageous to producing precise lines and variations in width.

 

Hm, trying to clarify here, as I read a bit about nib footing but didn't see anything about having the tip material attached at a 15-20 degree left oblique angle. So on the pen I have, I'm not saying the tip ball is ground at/to an angle, or that the tip is angled down towards to page, I'm saying if I look at the breather hole straight on, the tip ball is angled to the left, and consequently there is much more tipping on the left tine than the right.

 

Does this look crooked to you?

 

[cattar]

That's a blem.

 

Send it back.

Or grind it to suit.

 

Over the years, I've only received one pen with a blem nib (and the from a different pen manufacturer, not Sailor). I ground the nib to suit me. Still use the pen.

 

And thanks all for the notes on the cap seal.

I prefer that tactile nib feel on the page as well.

Edited February 7, 2019 by cattar

[RoSpectre]

That's a blem.

 

Send it back.

Or grind it to suit.

 

Over the years, I've only received one pen with a blem nib (and the from a different pen manufacturer, not Sailor). I ground the nib to suit me. Still use the pen.

 

And thanks all for the notes on the cap seal.

I prefer that tactile nib feel on the page as well.

Hm, figured it was off. I think given the hassle of returning to Japan, I will keep the pen and maybe try modding it myself. I am considering giving the body a scrubbing with a Scotchbrite pad to get a brushed matte look, which I think would be nice with the black trim, so with am imperfect nib I won't be as nervous about the risk of ruining it.

 

The nib actually isn't terrible, and has broken in a bit. The lopsided tip I think actually sort of functions like an oblique nib, so some angles work better than others, and some of the scratchiness has worn away, maybe as the burrs or IP coating have worn off the writing surface.

 

Regarding the cap seal/drying out, I left the pen capped all weekend (2 1/2 days) and it wrote this morning with no signs of drying out.