Big Nibs - Small Nibs

[Precise]

The way products evolve in opposite directions is interesting. Here's a pic I've borrowed from a review by mongrelnomad.

 

 

I'm intrigued by the good performance of nibs over this great range of size. I've always viewed the ribbed feed as local ink storage/supply. The small Lamy nib on the right has little local storage, yet performs fine.

 

So, despite my personal love of big nibs, like on MB 149, I can't see any difference in performance due to nib size. Also, I've lately been measuring the distance from the nib tip to my forefinger's nail and think the shorter distance of small nibs might help my handwriting slightly.

 

What do you think? Do big (costly) nibs perform better?

 

Regards,

 

Alan

[katerchen]

I like big nibs and I cannot lie.

[pajaro]

It is part of a delivery system, ink reservoir to the tipping or end point of the nib unit. The longer the channel that ink flows through, one might very well suspect the greater would be the possibility of interruption of the ink flow. Whatever you like you like. Enjoy it. I don't think I care either about the physical size of the nib.

[mitto]

 

Do big (costly) nibs perform better?

 

Regards,

 

Alan

Not necessarily. The best nib on my MBs is a small nib on one of my MB 24s. The best SWAN nib I have is a small #1 nib on my SWAN SM-1/57.

[Bo Bo Olson]

My smaller 140 nibs work just as good as the middle sized 400...(ebonite feeds)....or my medium large 600 or large 1000, with modern plastic feeds.

 

What seems to matter is the width of the nib, and how wet an ink is.

 

To increase your size of script so M's or B's can easily be used, there are free templates for line width to be had....perhaps someone can link you to one. Much easier to write with a B in a wide line, a M in a medium wide line, instead oft the F&below collage line.

 

Take two sheets of paper fold them in half = 8 half's.....start the absolute biggest script you can imagine....work down a little bit on the next 6 half's until the last one where you are back to normal.

Now you have broken the ice...to large and medium script.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[pajaro]

My smaller 140 nibs work just as good as the middle sized 400...(ebonite feeds)....or my medium large 600 or large 1000, with modern plastic feeds.

 

What seems to matter is the width of the nib, and how wet an ink is.

 

To increase your size of script so M's or B's can easily be used, there are free templates for line width to be had....perhaps someone can link you to one. Much easier to write with a B in a wide line, a M in a medium wide line, instead oft the F&below collage line.

 

Take two sheets of paper fold them in half = 8 half's.....start the absolute biggest script you can imagine....work down a little bit on the next 6 half's until the last one where you are back to normal.

Now you have broken the ice...to large and medium script.

 

Are you meaning that you need a larger nib (wider and longer) to have a medium or broad nib? To make more ink flow you need a bigger piece of gold or steel the nib is welded to? Need a very large feed under it?

 

Pretty soon there will be a competition for the biggest nib, maybe an inch wide by three inches long, with a big pen size to hold it, with terrific ink supply. You will need big hands for it. Separate the grownups from the kids and weaklings, leading to the pen as a ph---- symbol, oh, wait, is it already?

[LizEF]

I like big nibs and I cannot lie.

 

[Precise]

Hi Bo Bo,

 

I don't understand your post. Are the numbers 140, 400, 600 and 1000 measures of the nib size? Do you understand that my OP was not about nib width?

Please clarify.

Thank you,

Alan

My smaller 140 nibs work just as good as the middle sized 400...(ebonite feeds)....or my medium large 600 or large 1000, with modern plastic feeds.

 

What seems to matter is the width of the nib, and how wet an ink is.

 

To increase your size of script so M's or B's can easily be used, there are free templates for line width to be had....perhaps someone can link you to one. Much easier to write with a B in a wide line, a M in a medium wide line, instead oft the F&below collage line.

 

Take two sheets of paper fold them in half = 8 half's.....start the absolute biggest script you can imagine....work down a little bit on the next 6 half's until the last one where you are back to normal.

Now you have broken the ice...to large and medium script.

[LizEF]

Hi Bo Bo,

 

I don't understand your post. Are the numbers 140, 400, 600 and 1000 measures of the nib size? Do you understand that my OP was not about nib width?

Please clarify.

Thank you,

Alan

 

He was talking Pelikan m140, m400, m600, and m1000 - their nibs get bigger as the numbers go up. But then yeah, he was talking about tipping size (EF, F, M, B...) after that.

[Precise]

Could it be that big nibs are inferior to small nibs?

 

There is a longer distance for the ink to flow from the reservoir to the tip.

There is more area to evaporate ink from the larger nib and section.

There is a longer distance from the fingers to the tip, reducing control of penmanship.

 

I've not observed these inferiorities as a rule. But I have found it necessary to tweak some of my big nibs more than my standard and small nibs in order to achieve line uniformity.

 

Keep in mind that I love big nibs and have spent a lot of money buying big nib pens. So this isn't meant to be a biased attack.

 

Alan

[Bo Bo Olson]

And how to make your script larger with no real effort so you could enjoy M&B nibs. Larger script won't flood the e's with medium or broad nibs.

 

With wider nibs you could try laid or linen effect papers....which are not good with narrow nibs.

 

I can write tiny...if I really, really want to, but for me that is work. I have EF nibs for editing, and get along with them...they are not nibs I reach for to make written notes....then I want an F or M...in I fiddle with shading inks.

 

I've not noticed any problems with large pen nibs of my big 1000 nib.They deliver the ink.

Engineers spend a lot of time matching the feed to the naib and ink.

Peningineer...misspelled, has a very good blog, he use to be a feed and nib engineer by Lamy. They had to treat the plastic feed with chemicals to roughen it up to = ebonite's ink holding ability.

If someone would be so kind as to link.............I learned a world and a half about feeds.

 

So a lot of clever folks spend a lot of time making best match for the ink the company makes, in all feed and nib sizes over the generations.

Other inks of course alter the equation. Most seem to work well enough. Wet inks will make Pelikan write wider........dry inks Waterman write narrower.

 

Then there is what inks are you using and on what papers?

Edited September 28, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Mech-for-i]

size of nib , in my experience , had no correlation to how it write, I've experienced both good and bad nibs in all sizes. Had had really small EF/F nibs that write just great and even give some flex and conversely some large B nibs that just write OK at best. The nib mechanical s and profile and as well what paper and ink play also a large role in the writing experience.

[senzen]

There's the aesthetics, I like bigger nibs too, and dislike hooded nibs.

 

There's performance, I don't think there's a prima facie reason for a difference.

 

There's how much hooded nibs probably dry out less quickly when uncapped.

[minddance]

I like big nibs for how they look. But I am not sure how different will they write from small nibs.

 

Theoretically, will they damp more vibrations than small nibs? Write quieter? A tad more flexible amd thus wetter?

[mitto]

I like bigger nibs. They are aesthetically pleasing. But I also love the hooded nibs on my Parker 51s.

[JayKay3000]

Tipping material is what makes a nib good or bad.

Edited September 28, 2018 by JayKay3000

[Precise]

Hi Jay,

 

Interesting. I didn't know this. I thought all nibs had the same tip material. Tell us about the differences.

 

Alan

 

Tipping material is what makes a nib good or bad.

[JayKay3000]

Hi Jay,

 

Interesting. I didn't know this. I thought all nibs had the same tip material. Tell us about the differences.

 

Alan

 

 

All nibs do have the same tipping material, but from my experience the size of the nib is inconsequential if the tipping material is not smooth. Obviously there are other things at play small vs big nibs such as spinginess and size of line / amount of ink the nib puts on the paper, but at a basic level if the pen is scratchy then big or small nib doesn't really matter. (to me)

[Bo Bo Olson]

There was a poster that posted how much in just the '20-30's tipping material (Rare earth minerals) changed very often. Each company had it's own tipping compound that they changed often, looking for better and or cheaper or both.

I would still expect each company now to have it's own tipping that might or might not still be looking to change to save a few pennies, and that Bock would have 3-5 tippings depending on how much the wholesaler wants to pay.

 

JayKay could be right...in Germany exports a lot of 'iridium', and is so well known, cheating nibs from outside of Germany put Iridium Point Germany to give the impression the nib was made in Germany and not in China or India. But I would think each company had it's own compounds which they could order from the 'iridium' company in Germany....if they still don't mix their own.

 

I can see Parker/Waterman using the same tipping, in they are made in the same factory. I don't see why MB or Pelikan or Aurora would use the exact same tipping....Their main nibs are aimed in different directions.

 

Iridium was laid down by the Asteroid that help kill the dino's....some places it's an inch or two thick. It was mined in Italy and Turkey, before other rare earths took over.

An Osmium compound was patented by a Heidelberg Professor @1922, when he sold it tot he Boehler Brothers who made the pen Osmia...in honor of the grand material.

Up to WW2, nibs were lumpy, and chunks could fall off...............what ever you do if you try to smooth '30's and before nibs.....be super careful or you can rip out chunks.

It is a good bet the better nibs survived for our use those with chunks that ripped out, got burnt down for WW2, or when gold his $800 or now.

Such a nib can be retipped....today.

 

Tipping (Not the compound) but the ways to weld it, was perfected in WW2. No more bumpy, lumpy.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Precise]

In #16 "Tipping material is what makes a nib good or bad."

 

In #17, I asked for more info

 

In #18 "All nibs do have the same tipping material" and mentioned smoothness.

But most of us on this forum can smooth any tip in a minute.

 

JayKay, can you clarify your point here?

 

Many thanks,

Alan