Purchasing A Smooth Daily Writer With Line Variation

[BinaryRun]

Good evening,

 

I would really like to request your advice with finding the perfect pen for me. I'm not entirely sure what information would be helpful from me for you in order to give me the right advice, so please feel free to let me know if I miss out on anything.

 

What is my current experience with fountain pens?

I have no recent experience with fountain pens, I used to have a Lamy ABC in Elementary School.

 

What is your writing style?

I'm a left-handed underwriter (so no risk of smearing) and I often write while holding the paper between regular/straight and 45 degree angle. I like to write quite small (will attach an image), but on occasion I'd like to write some larger letters. Ideally I'd like to occasionally be able to do some 'brush' strokes, about 3-5 times the standard line thickness. I know that some call this soft-nib, semi-flex or flex. I hear all sort of terms on the subject. I'll attach an image of what I'd like to do with that as well. The image is with a Platinum 3776, that I tried locally, but it was too toothy and stuff for me and started railroading when I tried some line variation/semi-flex.

 

It might be good to note that I have oily hands, so the grib material cannot be slippery.

 

What pens have I tried?

So at a Dutch store I tried out and bought a TWSBI 580AL, however that pen was too slippery and ran constantly dry. It also didn't feel smooth enough for me and it was a 1.1 stub. Which I thought I'd like, but I cannot write small with it, after which I returned the pen.

 

After that I tried a Platinum 8776 in medium, which was too toothy and wide for me, but it did have an ok-flex for me, a bit more would have been nicer, but it started to railroad, even when going slower.

I also tried a Pelikan m205 in extra fine, it was a good writer, didn't try line-variation with it however.

 

My favorite of them all however was a Pilot 823 in medium, although a bit too wide for my tasting, the experience was amazing. It felt really smooth on various paper that I tried, even really cheap paper, it was such a terrific experience! Then the seller told me that it is $700,- in The Netherlands and I went home sad.

 

What kind of writing experience am I looking for in the pen?

I'm looking for a pen of any brand, that writes just as smooth as the Pilot 823, but also offers a decent amount of line variation. It important that I can write smaller with it, without the ink 'closing circled letters' into a blob, like with the lower case 'f' and 'e'.

 

What ink would you like to use?

I currently have my eyes set on Diamine Majestic Blue, Noodler's Apache Sunset and Noodler's Habanero

 

What paper do you have available?

I will mainly be writing on notepads and regular copy-paper, either 80g or 90g of no particular brand and the occasional thinner office paper of lower quality.

 

What pens are you currently considering and what is your max budget?

My max budget is around 450USD, although I prefer to stay under 400 as I also need to purchase ink and writing / maintenance materials.

 

The Pilot Custom 823. (Just worried about it's line variation abilities)

The Pilot Metal Falcon (Due to better ink capacity and looks then the regular one)

Pilot Custom 912 (Not a fan of the look though.)

Pineider La Grande Bellezza. (It was recommended by a CS member of Goulet Pens), however I'm not that sure about it as I read some issues about it's converter and scratching of the grib due to the magnet rotating cap.

 

The brand doesn't matter in your suggestions!

 

What kind of brands can we suggest, any other limitations?

There are no real limitations, aside from that that I'd like to be able to purchase from Goulet Pens as they have some of the other things like cleaning supplies and inks that I'd like to purchase and they offer good shipping to the Netherlands. So it's important that it's in their inventory. I would also really like a gold nib, because so far the gold nib pins that I was able to try out wrote much smoother and were more comfortable to me.

 

As mentioned before the smoothness, line variation and a nice wet flow are most important to me. The brand doesn't matter, it is about the writing experience. I'd like a pen that is well build. I'm currently 25 years old and I hope to still be using it once I turn 50. That is also why I've set a higher budget for myself for my first pen. I just need one workhorse, that I can use while working as a teacher (student), writing a lot, but still do the occasional 'fancy' lettering when I'm writing a quote or poetry that I'm doing in my spare time.

 

I really appreciate any tips that you can offer me. I've been personally researching for over 2 weeks now, but it isn't as easy as I thought I would be and I'm quite overwhelmed.

 

Attached you'll find a smaller writing example of mine as well as my Platinum 3667 test, which shows the kind of letters I'd like to make. (Although a bit more line variation then that is preferred.)

Edited September 16, 2018 by BinaryRun

[LizEF]

From your list, I'd recommend the Pilot Falcon.

[BinaryRun]

  On 9/16/2018 at 5:05 PM, LizEF said:

From your list, I'd recommend the Pilot Falcon.

 

Thank you. I'm still thinking about that pen as well. With the Pilot Metal Falcon, I will go with either the Soft Extra Fine or the regular Soft Fine. I think that Soft Extra Fine would be best for small writing as well as line variation, but I heard that the Extra Fine might want to havoc cheaper paper or at least won't be as smooth as the Custom 823 for example. What would you recommend?

 

And if it wasn't from my list, but any brand, would you still recommend the Falcon?

[Karmachanic]

+1 on the Falcon. Other than the 912. I believe it to be the only non-vintage pen that will give you what you are looking for.

 

Here's a current thread on the Belleza:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/336765-pineider-la-grande-bellezza/page-5

[LizEF]

  On 9/16/2018 at 5:19 PM, BinaryRun said:

Thank you. I'm still thinking about that pen as well. With the Pilot Metal Falcon, I will go with either the Soft Extra Fine or the regular Soft Fine. I think that Soft Extra Fine would be best for small writing as well as line variation, but I heard that the Extra Fine might want to havoc cheaper paper or at least won't be as smooth as the Custom 823 for example. What would you recommend?

 

And if it wasn't from my list, but any brand, would you still recommend the Falcon?

I have the SEF. It's extremely fine, but that's what I want. Using pressure to flex on crappy paper would cut into it, but I can't figure out why someone would do that. Writing with no pressure would be fine on any paper.

 

Without your list, I'd recommend trying some cheaper flex pens just to get some experience. Personally, I'd go with FPR flex pens, but there's also Noodler's. Vintage is another option.

[BinaryRun]

  On 9/16/2018 at 6:17 PM, Karmachanic said:

+1 on the Falcon. Other than the 912. I believe it to be the only non-vintage pen that will give you what you are looking for.

 

Here's a current thread on the Belleza:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/336765-pineider-la-grande-bellezza/page-5

 

Thank you. I'll look up some more comparisons between the Falcon and 912. Although I find the Metal Falcon better looking then the 912, if the 912 is a better writer, then the choice isn't too hard.

 

Edit: Getting more and more excited about the 912 with the Falcon nib. It's getting interesting. Especially if it's a smooth writer. Thanks!

 

  On 9/16/2018 at 6:34 PM, LizEF said:

I have the SEF. It's extremely fine, but that's what I want. Using pressure to flex on crappy paper would cut into it, but I can't figure out why someone would do that. Writing with no pressure would be fine on any paper.

 

Without your list, I'd recommend trying some cheaper flex pens just to get some experience. Personally, I'd go with FPR flex pens, but there's also Noodler's. Vintage is another option.

 

Thank you for the advice. I'm not planning to flex on crappy paper indeed.

Edited September 16, 2018 by BinaryRun

[SoulSamurai]

You mentioned wanting a pen that is not slippery. Your best bet (other than a pen with a knurled grip or something) is an ebonite pen; ebonite has a reputation for feeling good in the hand. Noodlers has an ebonite Konrad that has a flex nib (although it takes a fair bit of pressure to flex), and FPR has a number of ebonite pens such as the Himalaya and Triveni that are available with flex nibs comparable to that of the Noodler's Konrad. The Konrad is a piston filler, the Himalaya has a custom converter (so can't use cartridges) and can be eyedroppered, the Triveni takes Standard International cartridges and converters and can be eyedroppered. All three pens are available in the 30-40 dollar range. I have a Triveni (the older version with the #5 nib) and it's quite nice, although it can railroad without the right ink; probably because of the plastic feed. I believe the Konrad and Himalaya have ebonite feeds, which are reputed to be better for inkflow.

 

BTW have you considered a stub nib instead of a flex nib? I think they are easier to write quickly and still get line variation with. Plus it seems that it's just easier to get a good stub than it is to get a good easy-to-use flex nib. I mean, you'll probably get both eventually anyway, but starting with a stub is probably easier than starting with a flex nib.

[BinaryRun]

  On 9/17/2018 at 1:36 PM, SoulSamurai said:

You mentioned wanting a pen that is not slippery. Your best bet (other than a pen with a knurled grip or something) is an ebonite pen; ebonite has a reputation for feeling good in the hand. Noodlers has an ebonite Konrad that has a flex nib (although it takes a fair bit of pressure to flex), and FPR has a number of ebonite pens such as the Himalaya and Triveni that are available with flex nibs comparable to that of the Noodler's Konrad. The Konrad is a piston filler, the Himalaya has a custom converter (so can't use cartridges) and can be eyedroppered, the Triveni takes Standard International cartridges and converters and can be eyedroppered. All three pens are available in the 30-40 dollar range. I have a Triveni (the older version with the #5 nib) and it's quite nice, although it can railroad without the right ink; probably because of the plastic feed. I believe the Konrad and Himalaya have ebonite feeds, which are reputed to be better for inkflow.

 

BTW have you considered a stub nib instead of a flex nib? I think they are easier to write quickly and still get line variation with. Plus it seems that it's just easier to get a good stub than it is to get a good easy-to-use flex nib. I mean, you'll probably get both eventually anyway, but starting with a stub is probably easier than starting with a flex nib.

 

I have thought about a stub nib actually and owned one for a brief moment. It was a 1.1 stub from TWSBI, but I was unable to write small with it because of the loops in letters such as e and f would blend into each-other when writing small. About 50 minutes ago I actually ordered the Pilot Custom 912 with the FA nib together with some maintenance tools and ink that we do not have in Europe (Noodlers) and I'm looking forward to it.

 

You are totally right on that I will probably get more pens in the future and a stub might just be one of those. One pen at a time however!

 

Just quickly for those reading this, I've ordered the Pilot Custom 912. Any advice is still welcome for those who might have this same question in the future and I will try to let you guys know how my adventure goes once I've had some time with the pen.

[corgicoupe]

I think you should consider a vintage Esterbrook and add a selection of nibs for the various styles of writing you want to do.

[Karmachanic]

  On 9/17/2018 at 2:47 PM, BinaryRun said:

 

 

Just quickly for those reading this, I've ordered the Pilot Custom 912. Any advice is still welcome for those who might have this same question in the future and I will try to let you guys know how my adventure goes once I've had some time with the pen.

 

Congratulations! here's hoping you have a long happy relationship

[Bo Bo Olson]

I think Japanese EEF, would require 2015 eyes to see line variation...no a Honking Big Magnifying Glass and real fine $$ paper. That is western XXXF. A needle point....with a needle point sweet spot.

 

Pilot makes a modified nib that is more flexible....ie semi-flex. The Falcon may be 'soft' but many say it is not semi-flex....with out a mod.

 

Cheapest and best buy in semi-flex would be a '60's Geha 790. It has three rings on the finial.

I've shown the picture a lot....should run E60....look up Geha 790.

 

I chase two toned shading inks...and find the regular flex to give best results and in M&F, (Japanese B&M) in semi-flex is a wetter nib...............you do have to have good to better paper. 90g laser is minimum IMO.

 

If you are going to go super skinny, you have to use vivid 'boring' supersaturated ink only to see the line well....and sheen will remain forever a mystery.

 

There is a fairly big difference, I think from 'soft' nibs...which as far as I know could be regular flex and semi-flex.

 

I don't have any Japanese pens, not even any 'soft' ones. I do have a lot of regular flex and semi-flex. ..................you know living in Germany I'd have to buy those Japanese pens new!!! $$$$$

I spent years buying very used pens....at a inexpensive price, nice semi-vintage and vintage . Buying new would have me in court with my wallet for Wallet Abuse.

 

There is a real Huge difference with Flex (superflex)...........if you want flex, buy an Ahab and have the Ahab mod done to it. You can do that your self if you have access to a Drimel or buy a round swiss file.

A replacement Ahab nib is very affordable, in the inexperienced can bend and mangle the hell out of a superflex nib,in most are Heavy Handed from ball point use.

 

Normally a Ahab is a very hard semi-flex....and spreading the tines 4-5X a light down stroke will make that pen work is real soon . But as a noobie, hard enough you['d probably not bend or spring the nib......many have started with the Ahab or it's brothers as their first superflex nib..

That would give you some time to get use to 'flexing' a nib before modifying it into a fun nib.

Having that Ahab mod, the pen becomes first stage of Superflex(easy Full Flex...the stage harder than a Wet Noodle) ...and a fun pen.

 

On second thought....many folks coming in from ball points are heavy handed, so a Soft Falcon might well be the proper choice.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[WLSpec]

I agree that the Falcon is the best choice. Nice gold nib with great line variation. Recommend trying it after the 912.

Edited September 18, 2018 by WLSpec

[Scribblesoften]

Since no one has mentioned it, I suggest you look at the Pilot Justus. They are available with a number of textured finishes that might help with slipping. The 912 is a nice pen but mine is quite smooth. In the Justus softest setting you can see some line variation but no real flex. Good luck in your hunt and I hope you find the right pen.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Scribblesoften

[Houston]

I hope your 912/FA works perfectly for you. Like SoulSamurai, above, I just wanted to revisit stubs for a moment -- whether as an alternative to flex, or as a complement. This thread has focused mostly on flex -- and for good reason, as the world of flex is a place of many delights -- but there are reasons not to write stubs off.

 

You're a lefty. I'm a lefty. It is entirely possible to do beautiful flex work from the left, but I consider it harder. As an underwriter, you have an advantage over me (an overwriter), but the pushing of the pen across the page, that we lefties all do as a matter of necessity, is less salubrious to flex than the righties' pulling action. Good flex lettering takes practised skill, regardless of which paw one writes with, but it's my view that doing it from the left is a somewhat greater challenge. YMMV.

 

You talk about wanting a daily writer with line variation. And, as you've addressed, above, another way to get that is with a stub. (...or with a cursive italic, but I find most cursive italic nibs cut too sharp, at the edges, to be really comfortable daily writers.)

 

A good stub is vastly forgiving for daily writing. It's especially forgiving to lefties, when compared with flex nibs. And just because it's a stub doesn't mean that it has to be wide. There are 0.6mm and 0.8mm nibs out there, stock from the factory, still being made. Of course, the narrower the stub, the less line variation, but that's a matter of personal taste.

 

If I've read the thread correctly, you mention that your experience with stubs is limited to the TWSBI 1.1. Despite loving me my TWSBIs, I'm not surprised you had a less-than-thrilling experience with the 1.1 as your first stub. It can be a bit tough to write with, and, as you say, it can feel a bit too broad for those who write small. So, why not try, say, a Nemosine 0.8 for even less than the TWSBI costs? It's not an outstanding pen but, assuming decent flow, it writes like a workhorse and will give you a sense of what a smaller stub can do. Or, if you want a fully customisable version, just by a Goulet 1.1, and DIY grind it to whatever width you want.

 

Just to be clear that I'm not living in a binary world, there are certainly many soft, springy (though usually not truly flexy) stubs out there. When I find one, I buy it. I like a bit of both.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if, as a lefty, you find you don't get a huge amount of line variation from the FA nib. Firstly, as has already been noted, it's not a true flex nib, in the first place. It'll give you line variation, but not in the way I fantasize about when I watch online videos of folks making their flex nibs sing Puccini. And, as a lefty, it won't give you much line variation with un-modified daily writing. I speak from experience, using my Falcon. I love it. It's a great pen. But I'd never advertise it as delivering flexy line variation in my daily writing.

 

You probably know all this. And, as I said at the beginning, I hope the 912/FA combination is a winner for you. If you still find yourself yearning for a certain something, however, you might keep your eye out for another stub to play with.

 

Happy variations! --h

[Bo Bo Olson]

""""but the pushing of the pen across the page, that we lefties all do as a matter of necessity, is less salubrious to flex than the righties' pulling action.""""" Forgot about that.

 

The idea on Stubs if very good. The 0.8 is a good idea, in I find my 1.0 a tad wide. I do like wide nibs....perhaps a tad less than once.

 

One of the advantages to right handers of the '50-70 German stubbed semi-flex is what Huston so aptly stated, we pull.

 

I find modern obliques to have so little line variation, that IMO it is not worth buying....how ever there is a tad. That if you look hard for it, you can find it.

 

I have had a couple nail obliques. One I had PB turn into a CI. The other I sold. Neither had line variation. IMO They were just for those who cant their nib...........left hander? or left eye dominant so they can see the top of the nib.

CI's can be had where there is less than normal sharp edge and more than pure stub. Sort of half CI..half stub. CI is a compromise between sharp edged Italic and stub.

 

I have tried the Pelikan regular flex 200's Obliques. Even have a slightly springier W.Germany one.............but I am spoiled and right handed, with the Vintage '50-70 German semi-flex stub Obliques. That pull so nicely.

 

 

 

I really don't know enough about right footed obliques, and if they are as thought, better for lefites. Some say yes, others say no.

If some left handed underwriter could chime in on that? It could have to do with which of the 3-4 ways a leftie holds his pen.

[Drone]

1. Buy a Pilot 743 pen with an FA (semi-flexible) nib for around $217:

 

https://www.amazon.com/PILOT-CUSTOM-743-Black-nib/dp/B001AXB8ZM

 

 

2. Make sure your Pilot 743 pen comes with a Pilot CON-70 converter. If it doesn't, buy one for around $8-$11:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Fountain-Pen-Converter-CON-70/dp/B001P35A6K

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMFgxMjAw/z/Mm4AAOSweW5U8~VI/$_35.JPG

3. Replace the plastic feed in the Pilot 743 pen with a third-party Ebonite (hard rubber) feed to improve ink flow. The replacement feeds are made in Texas by the Flexible Nib Factory LLC. One black Pilot 743 FA replacement feed costs $25. In my experience replacing the feed takes about 10-15 minutes and it is easy to do:

 

https://flexiblenib.com/store/product-category/feed/

 

 

Here are my instructions on replacing the feed:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/339120-my-pilot-743fa-with-the-flexible-nib-factory-ebonite-feed/?do=findComment&comment=4098276

 

The black Ebonite feeds are $25 each while the red colored Ebonite feeds cost $40 each. The difference between the two is only cosmetic. Personally I think the red feed looks out of place on the black Pilot 743. Note however, there is a red version of the Pilot 743 pen available that would look great with the red Ebonite feed. But the red 743's are hard to find (hence more expensive), especially with an FA nib.

That's it. For around $250 USD (with shipping) you now have a brand new top-notch modern fountain pen with a truly functional semi-flexible solid gold nib (what a mouthful). Have fun with it...

Edited September 18, 2018 by Drone

[cellmatrix]

  On 9/17/2018 at 4:22 PM, corgicoupe said:

I think you should consider a vintage Esterbrook and add a selection of nibs for the various styles of writing you want to do.

I second that, and would recommend the 9128 nib for its ability to provide some nice line variation. It is semiflex however over time the flexibility gets even better. I have a pilot 912 with Spencerian modified FA nib and it writes great, however it’s finiky and it needs cleaning and small adjustments periodically to keep it writing well. In contrast my esterbrook 9128 needs almost no care and it keeps on writing wonderfully. Sometimes paying more does not mean getting more.

[Bo Bo Olson]

If one is going to go semi-flex, the vintage Geha 790 is Best Buy for semi-flex at E60 or less if one Hunts on German Ebay. A very sturdy, well balanced pen. I have 3.

Vintage semi-flex Pelikan 400/400nn's run @ E100.

 

Of course if you push the Buy Now Idiot button...expect Stateside prices...of @$200 or more.

 

The seller must take Paypal and ship to the states. Some German sellers won't.

The unmodified Falcon is not semi-flex...from my reading, one that is modified is.

[BinaryRun]

  On 9/18/2018 at 6:24 AM, Houston said:

I hope your 912/FA works perfectly for you. Like SoulSamurai, above, I just wanted to revisit stubs for a moment -- whether as an alternative to flex, or as a complement. This thread has focused mostly on flex -- and for good reason, as the world of flex is a place of many delights -- but there are reasons not to write stubs off.

 

You're a lefty. I'm a lefty. It is entirely possible to do beautiful flex work from the left, but I consider it harder. As an underwriter, you have an advantage over me (an overwriter), but the pushing of the pen across the page, that we lefties all do as a matter of necessity, is less salubrious to flex than the righties' pulling action. Good flex lettering takes practised skill, regardless of which paw one writes with, but it's my view that doing it from the left is a somewhat greater challenge. YMMV.

 

You talk about wanting a daily writer with line variation. And, as you've addressed, above, another way to get that is with a stub. (...or with a cursive italic, but I find most cursive italic nibs cut too sharp, at the edges, to be really comfortable daily writers.)

 

A good stub is vastly forgiving for daily writing. It's especially forgiving to lefties, when compared with flex nibs. And just because it's a stub doesn't mean that it has to be wide. There are 0.6mm and 0.8mm nibs out there, stock from the factory, still being made. Of course, the narrower the stub, the less line variation, but that's a matter of personal taste.

 

If I've read the thread correctly, you mention that your experience with stubs is limited to the TWSBI 1.1. Despite loving me my TWSBIs, I'm not surprised you had a less-than-thrilling experience with the 1.1 as your first stub. It can be a bit tough to write with, and, as you say, it can feel a bit too broad for those who write small. So, why not try, say, a Nemosine 0.8 for even less than the TWSBI costs? It's not an outstanding pen but, assuming decent flow, it writes like a workhorse and will give you a sense of what a smaller stub can do. Or, if you want a fully customisable version, just by a Goulet 1.1, and DIY grind it to whatever width you want.

 

Just to be clear that I'm not living in a binary world, there are certainly many soft, springy (though usually not truly flexy) stubs out there. When I find one, I buy it. I like a bit of both.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if, as a lefty, you find you don't get a huge amount of line variation from the FA nib. Firstly, as has already been noted, it's not a true flex nib, in the first place. It'll give you line variation, but not in the way I fantasize about when I watch online videos of folks making their flex nibs sing Puccini. And, as a lefty, it won't give you much line variation with un-modified daily writing. I speak from experience, using my Falcon. I love it. It's a great pen. But I'd never advertise it as delivering flexy line variation in my daily writing.

 

You probably know all this. And, as I said at the beginning, I hope the 912/FA combination is a winner for you. If you still find yourself yearning for a certain something, however, you might keep your eye out for another stub to play with.

 

Happy variations! --h

 

Thank you and everyone else for the extremely elaborate answers, I appreciate your fellow lefty experiences. I have the pen now for about 2 days, but I decided about one hour ago that it is going back across the Atlantic. I asked the store to pen-test it for railroading, but it does, especially on Rhodia paper, but on other paper like Clairefontaine as well. The FA nib may not be a true flex nib, but it is amazingly soft, so soft that I find that I cannot write at easy. I constantly have to correct the pressure I'm giving and it just really hurts my fingers and wrist after writing about half a paper.

 

And this might be due to me being a left as you mentioned, but the flow is really bad. Often the ink will just give out, even if I barely put any pressure on the nib or at least not intentional pressure. GouletPens suggested that I switched over to Noodler's Eel inks / lubricated inks, but that isn't what I bought the pen for.

 

I really really want to like this pen, but it writes too dry for me. It is my first true fountain pen and I wanted a pen that would simply write, not cause any problems, just how it's supposed to be.

 

With the advice that I've been given here I hope to find one that suits me. Probably one with a slightly larger grip section, perhaps with a bit more weight to it, but more importantly a wetter flow, even if that means that I'll have little (max 3x the normal with) or no line variation. I take that over a painful hand and wrist anytime. Just give me a very wet pen that behaves.

[minddance]

Rhodia does not like inks. It repels inks.