Dating Montblanc 146 (Legrand)

[mike.f]

On 7/26/2021 at 8:28 PM, mike.f said:

 

Length is 142 so 91 through 94. To narrow it even further, based on the spreadsheet, I need to know if it's a two piece barrel or one piece, searching the site had some pics but the links are old.

 

The other piece of into is nib hole configuration (no idea what that is). If anyone has some tips I'd really appreciate it.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

The nib hole configuration I'm asking about is this in the dating doc:

[Michael R.]

All newer modern 146 pens have a single barrel construction. The two barrel construction with a separate section was only used during the 1980s.

 

The "nib holes" the chart is referring to are the openings in the nib unit visible from looking at the pen/nib from the front. They are used for unscrewing the nib unit with a dedicated nib tool.

Cheers

 

Michael

[Michael R.]

Old/short (left) and new/long (right) variations of the 146R can be seen her:

 

P1000975 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

The "nib holes" on the older version are 180° and always perpendicular to the nib because the nib's housing is designed to accept the nib and feed only in that excact position.

"Nib holes" on the later versions are more angled and nib and feed can be positioned in any position.

 

For more information you might want to check Marco Schrage's excellent tool overview:

 

https://www.mspens.de/shop/werkzeuge/

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mike.f]

9 minutes ago, Michael R. said:

All newer modern 146 pens have a single barrel construction. The two barrel construction with a separate section was only used during the 1980s.

 

The "nib holes" the chart is referring to are the openings in the nib unit visible from looking at the pen/nib from the front. They are used for unscrewing the nib unit with a dedicated nib tool.

Cheers

 

Michael

Thanks Michael.

 

Mine are left and right of the nib which implies before 1994. But I checked with a friend who has a new 146 (2020) and the holes are left and right as well so I'm confused.

 

Mike

[mike.f]

10 minutes ago, Michael R. said:

Old/short (left) and new/long (right) variations of the 146R can be seen her:

 

P1000975 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

The "nib holes" on the older version are 180° and always perpendicular to the nib because the nib's housing is designed to accept the nib and feed only in that excact position.

"Nib holes" on the later versions are more angled and nib and feed can be positioned in any position.

 

For more information you might want to check Marco Schrage's excellent tool overview:

 

https://www.mspens.de/shop/werkzeuge/

 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

By short you mean 142mm? If so then mine have been tweaked as they are left and right of the nib.

 

[Michael R.]

2 hours ago, mike.f said:

Thanks Michael.

 

Mine are left and right of the nib which implies before 1994. But I checked with a friend who has a new 146 (2020) and the holes are left and right as well so I'm confused.

 

Mike

Again the chart is not correct. This understandably is leading to confusion 😞

Top and bottom (180°; holes are in one line) is the older version of the modern (>1970s) models.

Left and right (angled; holes are not in line) is the newer version. Brand new 146 pens (2020, 2021) have the same set-up as shown on the right pen on my picture above.

 

[Michael R.]

1 hour ago, mike.f said:

 

By short you mean 142mm? If so then mine have been tweaked as they are left and right of the nib.

 

 

That's the newer version of the nib collar.

Also the feed (marked "D") is newer than the pen. The feed with this kind of hole was introduced much later. I must have been replaced during service or repair by Montblanc which is common practice.

Don't know exact measurements; I would need to check. But from what I remember:

Short/early 146 pens = 14,2 cm

Long/later 146 LeGrand pens = 14,5 or 14,6 cm

Cheers

 

Michael

PS: to make thinks even more complicated imprints on clip and cap bands are different on pens from different periods 😉

 

[mike.f]

5 minutes ago, Michael R. said:

 

That's the newer version of the nib collar.

Also the feed (marked "D") is newer than the pen. The feed with this kind of hole was introduced much later. I must have been replaced during service or repair by Montblanc which is common practice.

Don't know exact measurements; I would need to check. But from what I remember:

Short/early 146 pens = 14,2 cm

Long/later 146 LeGrand pens = 14,5 or 14,6 cm

Cheers

 

Michael

PS: to make thinks even more complicated imprints on clip and cap bands are different on pens from different periods 😉

 

Thanks Michael!

 

As for imprints I've got Meisterstuck No 146 on the band and serial number and Germany on the clip.

[Michael R.]

That would match the earlier (shorter) version (pen pictured on the right):

 

P1000965 (1) by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

So it most likely is an earlier pen with the nib collar and feed replaced later.

Great pen anyways. The red 146 models gaining popularity and price seem to increase.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mike.f]

Just now, Michael R. said:

That would match the earlier (shorter) version (pen pictured on the right):

 

P1000965 (1) by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

So it most likely is an earlier pen with the nib collar and feed replaced later.

Great pen anyways. The red 146 models gaining popularity and price seem to increase.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

It is 14.2 cm.

 

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate it!

 

Yes I'm enjoying the pen!

 

Mike

[PAKMAN]

Have a Sterling Solitaire 146 with brass piston, 18K nib two tone, plastic feed with bridge, clear striped window, nib holes top and bottom, Serial number to right of clip, Metal to left of clip, W. Germany on back of clip ring, Meisterstück 146 on cap band, 142 mm long. It would seem to me that this zero's in the date of this pen to 1991.  Would any of you more knowledgeable folks be able to help confirm?

 

Thanks in advance!

[AcLondon]

Don't know that I'm any more knowledgeable than others but I have come to think that pens with W.Germany and a serial number can be dated very precisely to 90/91.  Beautiful pen.

[PAKMAN]

Thanks, that is what I'm thinking too.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Could be from before 1990...in I don't know when MB used W.Germany.

I knew a live auction lot I bought was mostly from @ '90 giver or take, but was pleasantly surprised my 149 was 'dated' W.Germany. I'd been chasing a W.Germany 800 in the same lot.  That was an '88-89 pen...the '87 has different marks to date it, as did the '90.

[AcLondon]

I think the W.Germany marking goes back to at least 1985 and there's evidence for slightly further back, too.  But the serial numbers began, according to Penstylo website, in 1991.  Given that West Germany officially ended in October 1990, pens with both markings must be fairly rare. I think I have seen just one. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I hadn't caught the reference to the serial number....

Pelikan gets good play for the W.Germany nibs, but I guess I didn't hang around on the MB section enough to find out they even had a W.Germany mark.

[Montblanc19]

Edited November 17, 2021 by Montblanc19

[luxforall]

I've had this pen in my collection for quite a while and I would like to ask for help in seeing what kind of 146 this is. I believe that it is probably a transitional model, but I can't find any other transitional model that are similar. I have used the brilliant chart that neugeekig made to identified the characteristics of this pen and try to put it in a approximate date range. The only thing that I was unable to really tell is if the body is a 2 or 1 piece. 

 

[AcLondon]

Seems to me everything looks just about okay on that pen for a very early 90s dating. Last of the split ebonite feeds. End of the W.Germany marking. End of the non-striped window era. Beginning of the metallic piston threads.  Beginning of serial numbers.

 

The one thing that definitely isn't correct is the date on the warranty booklet!

[Bo Bo Olson]

11 minutes ago, AcLondon said:

The one thing that definitely isn't correct is the date on the warranty booklet!

Some times pens sit for years in a B&M before being sold.

My Woolf was issued in 2006 and I got it @ ten years later on sale at my B&M.